[Stiff]

So, the group is savetheshed@yahoogroups.com. We can all hash out our thoughts there. My one comment on the recent threads about MORE is that they are here to represent us. They are not the ones who actually veto any plans, that is done by those in control of the area in question. As for getting approved for "stunts", or rather the usual lack thereof, I think our first priority should be trails in general. We should look into some steeper sections with already existing features. But i'm getting ahead of myself, like I said we can all talk about it on the group site and at the meeting.

Thanks for that and thx for everyone for their posts which are excellent and constructive. Well it seems that this is snowballing - I hope we have more than a snowball's chance in hell of producing results. Since I have no winter sports I can put some time into this. We seem to have an emerging consensus, but we gravity riders should put some thought into the questions below for discussion at the StS yahoogroup and at our meeting.

I'll write the short proposal in January after our meeting and of course circulate for comments. We should clarify three things:

1. We as gravity riders should rank what our own priorities are (MORE is already well-placed to represent the overall interests of general MTBing):
a. save current XC trails? (btw I don't think MTB access is threatened)
b. build new legal gravity/advanced trails? (my personal priority)
c. legitimize existing pirate trails?
d. importance of FR structures to us?
e. help maintain current trails?
f. participate more in NBR activities like clean-ups?
g. buy more guns?

2. We also should determine how to organize:
a. as an organized group?
b. as an ad-hoc collection of riders?
c. a loose affiliation of gravity goons?
d. divide labor (builders, policy people, organizers, etc.)

3. Determine our strategy (how to achieve our priorities):
a. help shape the emerging Shed recreational plan to incorporate gravity riding as a legitimate form of recreation.
b. just be hand maidens to maintaining existing XC trails (this won't sustain my interest personally).

Item #3 needs some more background info on the Shed's budgets, timelines, and proposed recreation mgt plan, and so on, but it's a start.

Hillary and I (and others) will be meeting with people who have been active in this stuff for a while, including Philip Werk, the Fred Shed MTB liaison and MORE member. This will give us the background info needed to explain how the Shed is managed, what the range of possibilities are, and so on. MORE people have been very positive about freeride. I've joined MORE myself and put my money where my mouth is.

Btw, this is the kind of work that I do (land mgt strategic planning for multilateral agencies overseas), plus I wrote my master's thesis for env'l policy on trail mgt and bike/boot/hoof conflict back in the early days. So I think I can really help the DH scene focus itself and put forth a good proposal that represents gravity's interests while maintaining the water catchment function of the watershed.

Lastly, for suspicious lurkers who might be reading: I don't know of a single big bike rider in the Shed who doesn't also ride XC or hike. Most also do other outdoor stuff like fish, hunt, camp, and so on.

One request: please read the IMBA freeride trail building guide and the Gorge FR Assoc website. Tons of great ideas in them that will help us legitimize our sport.

 

[riderx]

Stiff - there's a lot of good thoughts in your post above and a couple of areas I'll want to comment on but don't have time right now. But the one I will hit briefly is this one:
a. save current XC trails? (btw I don't think MTB access is threatened)

I would be very careful in assuming this. Non-bikers lump tend to lump all bikers into the same category. And if they are pissed at any bikers they are going to tend to want to boot everyone on two wheels. New trails can't be built without first having access, so keeping that secure should be priority number 1 (I think OneTime has mentioned this already).

 

[Shortbus]

Wow I just went through all 9 pages of this mess. This really sucks. Although I don't really ride the shed at all anymore (nor have I ever much), but this really sucks. The Shed has always had some of the nicest trails in the area. Destroyed trails are nothing new though..... I hope you guys can get this mess all sorted out. Legally or not.

 

[Zilla]

Ok, I have read all nine pages of this thread...Does anyone actually know what is going on? Seems like a whole bunch of opinions about what is going on with no actual facts (excepting some of onetimes posts). Who really has the issue with DH/FR's? Maybe its the residents who got sick of seeing 15 out of state cars parked along Hamburg Road where cars really should not be parked, or the trash left behind. Who sabatoged the trails? What is the law regarding riding and building in the shed, and what are the consequences for breaking it? Btw, Im not a lawyer but I play one on TV...

 

[Shortbus]

Well I think the only fact is that the stunts were destroyed in manners that intended for riders to get seriously hurt. I'm not sure if any kind of legal action would really prevent that from happening again.... I mean think of the people throwing stuff at Chris while he was riding as he described. Would having legal access to the trail prevent them from throwing bottles at him while fredneckly drunk? Not really. They'd still be just as dumb.

 

[Zilla]

Other than those who live in "fredneck" does anyone actually know dumb drunken frednecks? Lets stick to the facts, especially for all you out-of-staters who are making ignorant assumptions. It would be nice to know who exactly was throwing beer bottles, and why...just to give us a little insight.

 

[willpowa]

..Does anyone actually know what is going on? Seems like a whole bunch of opinions about what is going on with no actual facts (excepting some of onetimes posts).

This is the topic in a nutshell: a few riders (myself included) encountered some minor but dangerous examples of trail sabotage last Sunday. When the topic was posted here, someone spoke to the MTB liason to discover that the City of Fred is preparing to prepare a new land mgt plan for the Watershed. A few bright bulbs saw an opportunity for the concerns of gravity bikers (and xcrs by extension) to be addressed within this plan if an organization was formed....
Plus, trailbuilding is a great topic to rant about when you can't ride

 

[Shortbus]

Other than those who live in "fredneck" does anyone actually know dumb drunken frednecks? Lets stick to the facts, especially for all you out-of-staters who are making ignorant assumptions. It would be nice to know who exactly was throwing beer bottles, and why...just to give us a little insight.

Fine I'll let you knowledgefull in-stater figure it out then. Screw you too. :nuts:

 

[Zilla]

Fine I'll let you knowledgefull in-stater figure it out then. Screw you too. :nuts:

Thats nice, you out-of-stater come up here with all of your friends and their brothers, build all this crap, get all this attention, have no respect for those in the area, then say, "Oh its your problem". Grow up.

 

[Shortbus]

Thats nice, you out-of-stater come up here with all of your friends and their brothers, build all this crap, get all this attention, have no respect for those in the area, then say, "Oh its your problem". Grow up.

You're retarded. I've personnally NEVER built ANYTHING in the Shed. I've NEVER ridden a single man made stunt out there. Cause i'm a wuss. The most i've done on the shed was ride off a 4 foot rock. Speaking of ignorant assumptions. Last time i was out there was almost a year ago. I've been out to the shed a total of 5 times in my lifetime. Jesus Christ. Since you're all about Maryland why don't you advocate getting the Shed closed to all out of staters. You realize most of the people trying to fight to get these rights for the Shed are FROM VA, right???

 

[Zilla]

I think that you are missing the point Shortbus (which doesn't surprise me). Had it not been for all the publicity in the shed, and the lack of respect for the locals and other park users, this thread would not be necessary. But now that it is, lets have facts only (from those who actually know something).

 

[Shortbus]

I think that you are missing the point Shortbus (which doesn't surprise me). Had it not been for all the publicity in the shed, and the lack of respect for the locals and other park users, this thread would not be necessary. But now that it is, lets have facts only (from those who actually know something).

Zilla, If you have any personal problems with me (which seems to be your case), then PM me and we can figure it out.

 

[_bp]

All right you too. You are perptuating a turf war that we seem to have consensus that we want to eliminate.

 

[SHEDPIMP]

9 pages of posts later,you finally get me to dig out my old password and post something...being as I have adult ADHD...I'll make my post quick...


Stunts: When the original trails (ya'll call them the drop trails) were 1st built (2001) the wooden stunts were kept to a minimum. Yes there are a few, but mostly the trails follow the natural terrian. There is a reason 4 this. We were tired of re-building stuff that people tore down, plus wooden stunts draw attention. The more wood you truck in, the larger the chance of someone f'ing with u or the stunts. Besides all that...THIS IS NOT WHISTLER. The stunts at Whistler/Snowshoe/Mtn. Creek/Etc etc...are built by EXPERT builders using the best materials. Not to take anything away from the builders 'round here, but up there...that's ALL those poeple do..build stunts. Also there are stunts for every riding ability, plus paid EMS professionals there to assist you if you decide to sever your spinal cord. The Shed has none of the support needed to build what everyone wants to see!

Cars (in and out of state): A number of times I have ridden or driven by the gate at the top of the mower run and seen 8-10 cars parked by the gate, on the road, in FRONT of the gate...bad idea. First of all if u r going to ride pirated trails, don't draw more attention to yourselves by parking all around the trailhead! The Verzion people have complained a number of times, and they own that part of the area! For f*ck's sake..most everyone lives in NOVA...CARPOOL!!!

MORE: Any MTB'rs best spokes person....they have the pull, no-one else does.

Beer throwing rednecks: I ride a road bike in Frederick, I am an easy target. I have never had anything thrown at me...ever. I think this was an isolated incident.

Hunters: It was well known by most of us freeriders that late Oct to early spring is hunting season...that's why we only rode on sundays...we never had any problems with hunters, because we never saw any!!! Find something else to fill your time during the winter...learn to snowboard, ride road, drink, play Halo, post your brains out on ridemonkey...whatever floats your boat.

Rescue( I think I know a little 'bout this one): Here's one thing that no-one has thought about...as I said before Whistler has EMS providers on site to respond to any emergency on the mounatin. The Shed does not. If someone were to get seriously injured riding on a stunt out in the woods, and their buds were able to get service to call 911, it would take resucers over a hour to locate, stabilize, and evac the vicitm to an awaiting ambulance or god forbid, helicopter. It would be a major incident. Fire/Rescue, Police, DNR, etc etc. Do you really think that the powers that be of the Shed are really going to let that happen?? Yeah u can get hurt riding XC, but your chances of getting hurt are alot better 10-12 feet off the ground pedaling on a skinny to make a transition 3 feet out!


These are just some random things I thougt of.....I have to go and tighten the bindings on my snowboard...and shave my legs.....



Ride more...talk less....

DK

 

[E.C.]

Yo DK good to know your alive Bro. Happy Holidays!
I'm as guilty as the next guy of hyping RT.I'm saddened that it has come to this. The DH traing trais in this neck of the woods have names like Area 51 for a reason and you'll never see them -location or pics- posted on any forum.
Dave ( northshorewannabe) and I have disscused bringing his trailer down to help clean up things like sofas and the like, that we've seen lying around down there. If he has already posted about it ,I appoligize for the redundancy, as I hav'nt read all umteen million pages on this thread cuz I've got that there adult ADD too.
Anyway Let us know if we can help.
Later E.C.

 

[Gunther]

****ing newbs, what did you think would happen after posting pics and telling everyone on the net about this place. arrrg. dumb kids

 

[BikeGeek]

****ing newbs, what did you think would happen after posting pics and telling everyone on the net about this place. arrrg. dumb kids

Very constructive, thanks for your support. :nuts:

 

[BigMike]

****ing newbs, what did you think would happen after posting pics and telling everyone on the net about this place. arrrg. dumb kids

Who are you?

 

[Gunther]

I'm the one who spent years exploring this place in the late 90's and founder of the pipe run.

 

[BikeGeek]

I'm the one who spent years exploring this place in the late 90's and founder of the pipe run.


**** off bike geek I'll break you in half bitch!

All bow down to the guy who discovered the shed.

 

[NotQuiteJdm]

How about you all stop complaining?

 

[Gunther]

Most of you punks got shown the good stuff. Some of you took action, cutting in new trails and making stunts. Thats all good but keep it off the net, if you don't want the man to find it.

When some geek from the LBS is talking about the shed, E, stunts and what not, you know its getting out of control.

 

[Gunther]

I know the land owner that owns the land from the yellow gate down to the blue trail, on the pipe-run. Mr. Burns, he told me years ago I could build on his land.

So lets get building this spring.

 

[DamienC]

Mr. Burns, he told me years ago I could build on his land.

 

[Gunther]

No worries, I'll take care of it and we'll have one hell of a freeride park.

 

[corey_rideDC]

lmfao... another zinger from damien "fastest google finger in the east" chua!!

 

[Stiff]

Good posts, but please try to keep it civil. Good to see Shedpimp, Zilla, and Gunther in this thread. Absolutely, locals know what's happening and w/o them, there would be no Shed riding. I hope y'all join us. The best part about this thread is that even though there are quite a few off-target complaints being hurled around like in a cafetorium foodfight, each of these complaints can be addressed through good planning and policies and goodwill; there are no intractable, unsolvable problems here.

I just want to comment on the local-outsider thing. Frederick, like it or not, has become a DC suburb. That's why the way the Shed has been managed will no longer work, and they're considering adopting a rec mgt plan. Plus, the city-owned Shed is sandwiched in btwn two major state parks, which are heritage to all MD residents, incl myself even though I'm 100 yards from DC. It's impossible for the Shed remain a secret. I'm still learning about the local politics, but from what I understand, the city council has come to the same conclusion and realize they have to manage recreational use. Right now, they have no written plan.

We all have a stake in how the Shed's managed, and if the city does create a new mgt plan, we should work as hard as we can to legitimize gravity access and advanced trails. Of course big bike riders should work within and with MORE, but first we should figure out our priorities as downhillers. If they don't want to proceed with a rec mgt plan, then we'll have to remain within the current don't ask don't tell approach since that's what the city's Shed policy has been based on. I just think that approach is doomed.

Anyway, happy holidays. Let's think about all this and put our heads together in the new year and come up with a positive, proactive plan together.

 

[BirdWang]

Hey haven't posted in awhile, because I don't have the internet right now.I'm just trying to figure out what's up with the bs attitude.That's why most of us stopped riding bmx and xc.If you don't want to get busted don't tell anybody the exact location of your spot.I come up there from Richmond to ride, because you get to ride good trails with good people it's worth the drive when it could be done.It doesn't matter who founded what or who got what torn down.Stop trying to be a bada$$ and go build your own stuff if it bothers you that much.There's just not enough room in downhill/freeriding for people to have attitudes like this ,because we are all out there just to have fun and ride bikes not to talk crap and try to intimidate each other. If ther's going to be a future for bigger lines We are going to have to all work together and not talk shiite.

 

[mobius]

Yeah try to keep it civil guys theirs no need to brag about finding crap because honestly the piperun would be horrible had the trail gnomes built some jumps and such on it. Now since stiff has no job and is a bum i vote him head of this advocacy stuff.

 

[Stiff]

Now since stiff has no job and is a bum i vote him head of this advocacy stuff.

I don't want to be head of anything, just do my part in the group; everyone has something they can add. Btw although I admit I am a bum, I do have a job - my contract got renewed and improved at the last second, and I had to turn down other contracts. When it rains, it pours.

 

[willpowa]

Someone apparantly rebuilt the last drop on pipeline- hit it today and it was fine. RT can't be rebuilt, though. On a positive note, maintenance has been done on the drop trails: well raked, etc. No further evidence of sabotage on Evolution, either.
Also; I collected and removed a trashbagful of PBR bottles, Trebark hunting gloves, and Dunkin Donuts bags from the road at the bottom of the drop trails....working towards my sanitation engineer's merit badge!
I second Mobius's nomination of Stiff as spokesperson of the as yet unnamed advocacy group.

 

[mobius]

Mmmm Pbr

 

[Gunther]

Like Will said the pipe-run is looking good, last jump fixed. RT has been thrashed by a trail nazi, thats all.

 

[Stiff]

Mmmm Pbr

You do realize that there's a PBR BUFFET on Wednesday at chief Ike's Mambo room in Adams Morgan? Maybe they've done away with it by now though. Oh wait, you're not old enough to go to bars. :nuts:

 

[mobius]

You do realize that there's a PBR BUFFET on Wednesday at chief Ike's Mambo room in Adams Morgan? Maybe they've done away with it by now though. Oh wait, you're not old enough to go to bars. :nuts:

I hate you.

 

[BigMike]

You do realize that there's a PBR BUFFET on Wednesday at chief Ike's Mambo room in Adams Morgan? Maybe they've done away with it by now though. Oh wait, you're not old enough to go to bars. :nuts:

I hate you.

BWAHAHAHAHA! Andrew just got Own3d!

 

[MOREPREZ]

Hey guys,

MORE President here. Heard from our liaisons that things were heating up in the Shed again. Sorry to hear it.

A lot has already been covered in the discussion, and it sounds like many of you have already contacted Phil, our Frederick liaison. Glad to hear it. Phil has been covering the area for MORE for many years, and knows the people, issues, and possibilities, better than anyone. I encourage all those interested in improving and preserving riding opportunities at the Shed to at least check in with Phil, or Clyde, and see where things stand. Contact me at the address below if you don't have Phil's contact info already.

For those of you wondering about MORE's position on all this, I'd just like to quickly mention that as the area's largest IMBA affiliate club, MORE is ready and willing to work with anyone who is interested in improving access for mountain biking--that means any and all mountain biking--freeride, downhill, cross-country, unicyle...whatever. As long as it's muscle powered, and we can get a land manager to accept it, we'll support it.

In that regard, MORE would be happy to lend whatever support we can in helping riders organize in support of more FR and DH trails. MORE's 501 non-profit status, IMBA affiliation, and things like insurance coverage, give us the kind of legitimacy with landmanagers that can make a big difference, and we're ready to put our efforts behind a more organized push in the Shed if that's what will be required. In fact, we've been interested in starting a Freeride advisory group or committee of some sort within MORE for some time, and would love to have anyone interested join up.

Bottom line is that since we are an all volunteer member driven organization, it's our members that make things happen. If you want to organize with us, I encourage you to contact me or Phil and help us put MORE's resources to work for freeriders.

By the way, we've been interested in getting Whitetail reopened for some time as well, and in fact contacted them last year, but got nowhere. This is something else we'd be happy to revisit if there is sufficient interest.

I'd like to hear from anyone who might be interested in joining a freeriding section of MORE. Contact me at the address below.

Look forward to hearing from you all,

Eric von Eckartsberg
President, MORE
president@more-mtb.org

 

[NotQuiteJdm]

I'm all about whitetail since it would be closer (but not as fun as) Snowshoe and Diablo. Wouldn't have to worry about ppl messing with the trails unlike at the shed.

 

[mtbmore]

I just wanted to add a few things from Eric's post above.


I have been associated with MORE for the last 8 years and 5 of those
years I have been on the Board of Directors and President twice. I
can tell you as an insider to the organization we are clearly not
anti DH or Freeride. Hell I love to freeride although I am not very good at it yet. (4 broken collarbones to prove it.) I digress. The reason I am
posting to this list to tell you that we have been trying to help
the plight of freeriders for over 5 years but until people stop
building trail on other people's property without their permission
we are not going to be able to help very much. Just as an
information point MORE funded 4 Freeride/DH folks ($1000) to attend
the IMBA International Bike Summit held in Maryland last June. IMBA
had a small freeride track for discussion. We also have helped
organize the building of Technical Trail Features (TTFs) (previously known as stunts) at Conway Robinson State Forest in Gainesville Virginia. 2 of the guys that attended the Summit have used that info in designing the TTFs at
Conway. Not a full blown freeride park yet but we are getting our
foot in the door. We are also looking into adding additional
liability coverage to our insurance policy to cover more TTF
activity in the future. As RiderX has stated we are not anti
Freeride just that our 12 years experience has taught us how to get
and more importantly maintain access.

Next year my position for MORE will be that of Trail Boss. I
essentially help manage the whole trailwork scheduling process and
coordinate the 24 Trail Liaisons in the MORE system of trails. I
will be more than happy to work with you all in making progress at
the Shed. In addition to Phil vanWerkhoven, Erin Gay has recently
(last year) taken over from Phil the Trail Liaison duties for the
Shed. Phil still has Gambrill and Greenbrier and is also the main
contact for the City of Frederick. As an aside Phil got himself
appointed to the Maryland Trails Commission.

Please keep me posted

Scott Scudamore
MORE President (for one more day) then Trail Boss

 

[Paris]

I'm all about whitetail since it would be closer (but not as fun as) Snowshoe and Diablo. Wouldn't have to worry about ppl messing with the trails unlike at the shed.

Snowshoe can't hold a candle to what was Whitetail. Whitetail was the best thing close to us, better by far then the shed, if Whitetail was still open, no one would even ride at the shed. Until they (Snowshoe) learn how to build a trail that flows other than the natural ones...I'll just keep rolling up to Diablo where they know HOW to build trails.

Otherwise, let's get Whitetail to reopen! They failed because they didn't know how to run a business...too many freebies for shop people. Cut no one any slack, charge for everything "like a business should" and there should be no problems...

C'mon, everyone here knows Whitetail was great! So much potential! Rockier than the shed, as rocky as Diablo and only an hour and a half from the DC area!