[Dartman]

To further add to Eric and Scott's posts...

The Richmond Chapter of MORE feels the same way. They have started building some TTF's on Buttermilk West with Jason Williams (Rowlett's) help and with the park managements permission.

Mike

 

[BigMike]

Looks like this is going in a good direction

 

[jwiffle]

We also have helped organize the building of Technical Trail Features (TTFs) (previously known as stunts) at Conway Robinson State Forest in Gainesville Virginia. 2 of the guys that attended the Summit have used that info in designing the TTFs at Conway. Not a full blown freeride park yet but we are getting our foot in the door.

Scott Scudamore
MORE President (for one more day) then Trail Boss

LIE! MORE has not built or organized any TTFs at Conway Robinson! What was built there was built by some people on their own, outside of MORE. MORE has been instrumental, however, in TEARING OUT what was built. There is not a single TTF at Conway anymore. (Edit: well, I was wrong, there is still one skinny along the trail by the rocks and a tiny "double" off in the woods, if you really want to call the "double" a TTF. But at present, there are no more that I know of in the "freeride park" section)

Those of us actually in the know will wait and see if MORE actually gets anywhere in getting any TTFs built at Conway before we consider helping them build.

 

[mtbmore]

Just to make sure that story is told correctly let me give a short history of TTFs at Conway.

Last year two people came to MORE and asked if they could build stunts (TTFs) at Conway. We arranged to pay for their entry at the IMBA Symposium and they started to get smart about how to build TTFs. A few TTFs were built as test cases. Two of those test cases are still up and being used at Conway. Another one was not sustainable and was torn down. There are still plans to put up TTFs in that location in a way that is sustainable and usable in the future.

In the mean time another person asked about building TTFs and went ahead and built quite a bit. There was a big misunderstanding on what could be built and not built in the Park and to make a long story short those TTFs were deemed by the Park Management, IMBA Trail Solutions expert Rich Edwards and the two guys working with MORE on the previous efforts to be not sustainable, dangerous and should be torn down. The latest trail use plan for Conway does include TTFs for that location as well. The individual that built those original stunts has been asked to participate in the plan to rebuild when permission is granted.

If you have any questions about what the Trail Plan is or you want input into the trail plan feel free to contact me.

Scott Scudamore
MORE Trail Boss
trail-boss@more-mtb.org

 

[DamienC]

LIE! MORE has not built or organized any TTFs at Conway Robinson! What was built there was built by some people on their own, outside of MORE. MORE has been instrumental, however, in TEARING OUT what was built. There is not a single TTF at Conway anymore.

The structures that were torn down were shoddy, unsightly, and not sustainable. The kinds of materials used in their construction and the manner in which they were put up did not fly well in the eyes of the VA Dept. of Forestry official responsible for Conway and frankly threatened the prospects of the presence of any TTFs in the forest. Quality TTFs aren't slapped together with nails and scrap dimensional lumber which is basically what was there. IMBA has set a high standard for TTF construction and the folks who have a say in what we can do at Conway are aware of this and expect us to follow those guidelines.

Those of us actually in the know...

If you really considered the quality of the structures that were torn down sustainable and robust then I would really question if you're "in the know." Are you in contact with the VA Dept. of Forestry official that oversees Conway? His name is Larry Dunn; nice guy really and open to the idea of TTFs. How about the other user groups that are working with MORE like the Friends of Conway or the Clifton Horse Society to develop the overall trail network? Have you ever come out to a trail work day and given your input to the state of affairs there? We would greatly appreciate your input and would welcome you to get into the loop in the process. PM me and we can discuss offline.

The construction of the TTFs there is going to be a slow process due to the fact that we're working within the management of the forest and their bureaucratic channels. It's going to be a two steps forward, one step back kind of deal - no way around it.

 

[vwmtnbiker]

well now i feel the need to defend my work...lol. myself, and a few others were the ones who built the 'renegade' trail but only after being told by larry camp (who was then the trail liason) that there was no problem with building TTF's as long as they were out of the way and were able to be ridden around by other users. this in fact was not an issue with the area that was chosen as it was an UNUSED part of a fire road that was blocked by fallen trees. as it was told to me there was no real issue of safety but rather the appearance of the area. they wanted to see no dimensional lumber (which is no less safe than anything that is being used there now) but more 'rough cut' type planks that would blend with the surroundings better. i agreed with that and was going to help with the re-modeling of the area dubbed 'the spot'. instead the ladders were just removed and work was started on a bridge that as of yet (due in some case to extenuating circumstances) is unfinished. now there is nothing rideable there. if you read IMBA's guide to building they say nothing about nails being BAD but that proper fasteners should be used. nails were free...we used them...end of story. i never saw ANY of our nails backing out anywhere.

damein, as far as shoddy i'd have to say that that is your opinoin but they were SOLID. another individual who helped weighs in at 240 lbs and we build everything there to hold his weight. it had been there for several months and showed no signs of breakage anywhere. they were built with whatever we could get for free or cheap because we knew at some point it would be torn out. i can post pictures of the area sometime soon hopefully and we can let others decide for themselves just how 'shoddy' and 'unsightly' they were.

at any rate thats about it, the ladders have since been transported to the CAMBO site in culpeper and will hopefully be installed there where they will be used and appreciated. the reality is that no matter WHAT you use it will always need maintainence and that is the key to sustaining a trail or area such as the one that was removed. best of luck to all involved with the conway project (you'll need it).

 

[jwiffle]

The structures that were torn down were shoddy, unsightly, and not sustainable.

That may be your opionion, but simply was not the case. Well, maybe unsightly to some. But they were not shoddy or unsustainable. Any structure requires maintenance. THERE IS NO SUCH THING as a structure that is sustainable without maintenance. We had planned to keep them maintained. They were not shoddy--did you ever see any of them break? ONE rung once broke, which we repaired (by the way, that rung was actually a split piece of wood such as MORE seems to like, not a piece of dimensional lumber that is supposedly so weak).

Quality TTFs aren't slapped together with nails and scrap dimensional lumber which is basically what was there. IMBA has set a high standard for TTF construction and the folks who have a say in what we can do at Conway are aware of this and expect us to follow those guidelines.

Well, we did use some scrap dimensional lumber, and some that we bought. But they weren't "slapped" together. We actually did build them sturdily. And we even went back over them, adding more rungs to fill in spaces to make them fit into IMBA standards.

The construction of the TTFs there is going to be a slow process due to the fact that we're working within the management of the forest and their bureaucratic channels. It's going to be a two steps forward, one step back kind of deal - no way around it.

Yeah, we originally built outside of the "governing bodies" view. We knew it would probably get torn down, even after we were given the okay to build. I'm on a wait and see basis now--if MORE gets anything built that is actually challenging, I'll come back and pitch in. MORE does have a reputation for building very basic structures that just do not meet freerider criteria for difficulty.

 

[Racer-X]

OH NO!

is anyone planning on ressurecting the Rusty Trombone or any of the drops!?!

 

[Stiff]

OH NO!

is anyone planning on ressurecting the Rusty Trombone or any of the drops!?!

They're talking about the stunts at Conway Robinson, not anything at the Shed. Rusty Trombone was very well made by the trail gnomes, and built on a natural fallen tee that connected an upper and lower trail. Vast majority of the Shed drops are rock drops, so don't worry.