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Adventurous

Adventurous

Starshine Bro
Mar 19, 2014
10,341
8,897
Crawlorado
I find it hilarious how some people are screaming about how the CBO estimate is so far off base because it fails to take into consideration phases 2 and 3 of the program. As if they could somehow know what phases 2 and 3 include, that is, if they even exist in the first place.

If you want the CBO estimate to account for phases 2 and 3 perhaps you publicize the details of those phases. Call me cycnical but when someone asks me to vote for phase 1 because, "believe me", phases 2 and 3 will fix everything else, that sounds like a truckload of bullshit big enough to build a border wall with.
 
Jim Mac

Jim Mac

MAKE ENDURO GREAT AGAIN
May 21, 2004
6,352
282
the middle east of NY
Apologies for long post, but I thoroughly enjoyed reading this:
And Jesus Said Unto Paul of Ryan ...

Nicholas Kristof MARCH 16, 2017

A woman who had been bleeding for 12 years came up behind Jesus and touched his clothes in hope of a cure. Jesus turned to her and said: “Fear not. Because of your faith, you are now healed.”

Then spoke Pious Paul of Ryan: “But teacher, is that wise? When you cure her, she learns dependency. Then the poor won’t take care of themselves, knowing that you’ll always bail them out! You must teach them personal responsibility!”

They were interrupted by 10 lepers who stood at a distance and shouted, “Jesus, have pity on us.”

“NO!” shouted Pious Paul. “Jesus! You don’t have time. We have a cocktail party fund-raiser in the temple. And don’t worry about them — they’ve already got health care access.”

Continue reading the main story

Jesus turned to Pious Paul, puzzled.

“Why, they can pray for a cure,” Pious Paul explained. “I call that universal health care access.”

Jesus turned to the 10 lepers. “Rise and go,” he told them. “Your faith has made you well.” Then he turned back to Pious Paul, saying, “Let me tell you the story of the good Samaritan.

“A man was attacked by robbers who stripped him of clothes, beat him and left him half dead. A minister passed down this same road, and when he saw the injured man, he crossed to the other side and hurried on. So did a rich man who claimed to serve God. But then a despised Samaritan came by and took pity on the injured man. He bandaged his wounds and put the man on his own donkey and paid an innkeeper to nurse him to health. So which of these three should we follow?”

“Those who had mercy on him,” Pious Paul said promptly.

Jesus nodded. “So go ——”

“I mean the first two,” Pious Paul interjected. “For the Samaritan’s work is unsustainable and sends the wrong message. It teaches travelers to take dangerous roads, knowing that others will rescue them from self-destructive behaviors. This Samaritan also seems to think it right to redistribute money from those who are successful and give it to losers. That’s socialism! Meanwhile, if the rich man keeps his money, he can invest it and create jobs. So it’s an act of mercy for the rich man to hurry on and ignore the robbery victim.”

“How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of Heaven,” Jesus mused to himself. “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter heaven.”

“Let me teach you about love, Jesus — tough love!” Pious Paul explained. “You need a sustainable pro-business model. And you need to give people freedom, Jesus, the freedom to suffer misery and poverty.”

“The Lord God has anointed me to bring good news to the poor,” Jesus replied, emphasizing the last two words. Then he turned to a paralyzed beggar at his feet. “Stand up!” Jesus told the man. “Pick up your mat and go home.” As the man danced about joyfully, Pious Paul rolled his eyes dismissively.

“Look, Jesus, you have rare talent, and it should be rewarded,” Pious Paul said. “I have a partner, The Donald, who would like to work with you: He’d set up a lovely hospital, and the rich would come and pay for you to heal them. You’d get a percentage, and it’d be a real money-spinner. Overhead would be minimal because every morning you could multiply some loaves and fishes. You could strike it rich!”

“Blessed are the poor, for theirs is the kingdom of God,” Jesus said. “But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received comfort.”

“Oh, come on, Jesus,” Pious Paul protested. “Don’t go socialist on me again. Please don’t encourage class warfare. The best way to help the needy is to give public money to the rich. That then inspires the poor to work harder, galvanizes the sick to become healthy, forces the lepers to solve their own problems rather than kick back and depend on others. That’s why any realistic health plan has to focus on providing less coverage for the poor, and big tax benefits for the rich. When millions of people lose health care, that’s when a country is great again!”

“From everyone who has been given much,” Jesus told him, “much will be required.”

“Well, sure, this hospital would have a foundation to do some charity work. Maybe commissioning portraits of The Donald to hang in the entrance. But let’s drop this bleeding heart nonsense about health care as a human right, and see it as a financial opportunity to reward investors. In this partnership, 62 percent of the benefits would go to the top 0.6 percent — perfect for a health care plan.”

Jesus turned to Pious Paul on his left and said: “Be gone! For I was hungry and you gave me no food; I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink; and I was sick, and you did not help me.”

“But, Lord,” protested Pious Paul of Ryan, “when did I see you hungry or thirsty or sick and refuse to help you? I drop your name everywhere. And I’m pro-life!”

“Truly, I say to you,” Jesus responded, “as you did not help the homeless, the sick — as you did not help the least of these, you did not help me.”
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,312
7,738
I actually think that's a fine provision. Able bodied, no kids: hell yes, dig some ditches for your healthcare.
 
Adventurous

Adventurous

Starshine Bro
Mar 19, 2014
10,341
8,897
Crawlorado
Toshi said:
I actually think that's a fine provision. Able bodied, no kids: hell yes, dig some ditches for your healthcare.
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I tend to agree. Then again I happen to think they should bring back the CCC for welfare recipients provided there are no medical or extraneous circumstances that would prevent you from participating. Make it pay enough that it would discourage someone from taking the "welfare leech" approach but not enough to dissuade you from getting a job. Methinks that would be a mutually beneficial arrangement.
 
Adventurous

Adventurous

Starshine Bro
Mar 19, 2014
10,341
8,897
Crawlorado
rideit said:
Just think how much new bike trail could be built with a few million CCC workers...
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Right? A park near my old stomping grounds has a stone staircase, stone arch and spillway that were the result of a CCC project. I'm sure our communities could benefit greatly from a modern day CCC at a minimal cost that IMO would be far outweighed by the benefit.
 
jimmydean

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
41,192
13,339
Portland, OR
Adventurous said:
I tend to agree. Then again I happen to think they should bring back the CCC for welfare recipients provided there are no medical or extraneous circumstances that would prevent you from participating. Make it pay enough that it would discourage someone from taking the "welfare leech" approach but not enough to dissuade you from getting a job. Methinks that would be a mutually beneficial arrangement.
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Once we ship out all the Mexicans, there will be plenty of fruit and veggies to pick, so there would be no shortage of work.
 
Nick

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
24,064
14,711
where the trails are
when I was a kid we had a ton of vocational programs through school. the govt. should run a voluntary program to get service from the youth while providing real skills training.

also, I'll flip my lid if that repeal plan passes as-is.
 
Pesqueeb

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
40,318
16,779
Riding the baggage carousel.
SkaredShtles said:
Single-payer and mandatory 2 years of public service after turning 18 for EVERY young adult.

Doc - add that provision to Toshi2020
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rideit said:
Everyone should have to do military or peace corps.
Flip a coin?
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I've been saying this for a long time, along with compulsory voting. IMO a mandatory 2 year turn in the military would keep this country out of a lot of stupid bullshit when everyone could be looking at the possibility of having their sons or daughters sent to some third world shit hole. I would be okay with service in the peace corp too.
 
SkaredShtles

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,705
12,739
In a van.... down by the river
Pesqueeb said:
I've been saying this for a long time, along with compulsory voting. IMO a mandatory 2 year turn in the military would keep this country out of a lot of stupid bullshit when everyone could be looking at the possibility of having their sons or daughters sent to some third world shit hole. I would be okay with service in the peace corp too.
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I'm not a big fan of compulsory voting... but that's mainly because I think most people are fucking morons. :D
 
jimmydean

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
41,192
13,339
Portland, OR
Pesqueeb said:
I've been saying this for a long time, along with compulsory voting. IMO a mandatory 2 year turn in the military would keep this country out of a lot of stupid bullshit when everyone could be looking at the possibility of having their sons or daughters sent to some third world shit hole. I would be okay with service in the peace corp too.
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While my 2 years in the Navy wasn't mandatory, I had a GED and no idea what I was doing at 18. Not only did I earn the GI Bill that helped me with school, but I grew up quick and knew I had a few options afterwards. My grandfather is the only other member of my family to do military service and he felt everyone should.

He let my dad off because he was an educator and would be giving back to the community for many years rather than just 2. But public service is a good thing and comes in many forms.
 
mykel

mykel

closer to Periwinkle
Apr 19, 2013
5,104
3,820
sw ontario canada
Just read the added an amendment that would gut the system further, as well as something about block grants to the states - where the states are not obligated to use the funds for heathcare - ie into general accounts.

So what are the cuts now, something like a trillion over the next 10 years?
 
eric strt6

eric strt6

Resident Curmudgeon
Sep 8, 2001
23,316
13,606
directly above the center of the earth
jonKranked said:
it's important to not lose sight of the fact that they are against it for very different reasons
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true but they both know that at this point in time they need each other to kill it.

And when you need to save face because you don't have the votes to pass your bill. Just cancel the vote
Health Care Vote Canceled After Republican Leaders Fail to Get Enough Support
by LEIGH ANN CALDWELL


House Republican leaders abruptly canceled a planned vote on the GOP health care bill Thursday afternoon as they struggled to find sufficient support to pass it. House Republicans have been advised that procedural votes on the bill will still be held tonight and that a vote on the bill could still happen tomorrow.

The move came after House conservatives said there was no deal struck on the bill following a meeting with President Donald Trump at the White House Thursday.

Rep. Mark Meadows R.-N.C., chairman of the conservative House Freedom Caucus, told reporters that there was no deal after the meeting but added he was still hopeful there can be one struck. "I am very hopeful we can find a way to yes," Meadows said.


  • [URL='https://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.msnbc.com%2Fmsnbc-news%2Fwatch%2Fhouse-conservatives-talk-after-trump-health-bill-meeting-904850499609&t=House%20Conservatives%20Talk%20After%20Trump%20Health%20Bill%20Meeting']Facebook
 House Conservatives Talk After Trump Health Bill Meeting 3:45
White House spokesperson Sarah Huckabee Sanders said the move was procedural and that debate will start tonight with a vote on the bill tomorrow.

House leaders and various Republican factions have worked in recent days to find a deal on the American Health Care Act that would appease enough moderates and conservatives to pass but they have remained short on votes to pass the measure for several days now.

There are currently 30 Republicans who say they will not vote for the Trump-backed legislation. Among the latest is Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler, R-Wash., who put out a release Thursday morning stating her opposition.

"While I appreciate this week's effort by Speaker Ryan and his leadership team to better protect older Americans from health care cost increases, the difficulties this bill would create for millions of children were left unaddressed," Herrera Beutler said in a statement.

House Speaker Paul Ryan huddled with moderate Republicans Wednesday night for two-and-a-half hours over pizza and snacks to hash out a way to move forward. But as rank-and-file members filed out, many taking a back way to avoid the press, revealing little, there were indications that the negotiations had not gone well.

Rep. Charlie Dent, R-Penn., released a statement after the meeting, announcing that he'd vote "no."

"I believe this bill, in its current form, will lead to the loss of coverage and make insurance unaffordable for too many Americans, particularly for low-to-moderate income and older individuals," Dent said.

The opposition from Herrera and Dent helped push NBC's tally of Republicans against, or leaning against, the bill to 30 — higher than it was two days ago.

Related: These 31 Republicans Could Doom Their Party's Health Care Bill

Speaker Ryan presented the group with the demands of conservative Republicans who have also been holding out over different concerns and asked what would be "acceptable," according to a source in the room.

The tenor of the negotiations changed Wednesday evening after the White House, responsible for negotiating with the conservatives while Ryan was tasked with the moderates, told critical members that they'd consider their demands. Those demands include removing the Essential Health Benefits, which requires insurance plans to cover a minimum number of services including maternity care, emergency room care, hospitalization and mental health care and more.


GOP health care plan showdown: Will bill pass the House?2:46
House leadership has been reluctant to include the main changes that the conservatives want because of Senate rules that are very particular in the contents of the bill. The reason Republicans are passing the health care bill this is way is so that they can do it with a simple majority instead of the usual 60-vote margin that would require Democratic support.

"It is our leadership team that has set an arbitrary deadline — we are happy to keep working with the white house and the leadership team but we don't think the arbitrary deadline of (Thursday) really means anything," said Rep. Justin Amash, R-Mich., who is voting against the bill unless desired changes are made.

The intense negotiations come as outside groups are putting more pressure on lawmakers. The Charles and David Koch-backed Americans for Prosperity and Freedom Partners have reserved "seven figures" to reward members who oppose the bill. The development comes as President Donald Trump told Republicans a day earlier that they'd be lose their seats if they voted against the Republican plan. And another conservative group, Club for Growth, is running television ads in some Republican districts to push members to vote against it.

Members of the Freedom Caucus are heading back to the White House again Thursday for more talks ahead of a vote still slated to happen early this evening.
[/URL]
:rofl:
:sarcastic:
 
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