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RideMonkey How To Series: Throwing a Tantrum in Public

Tantrum Cycles

Tantrum Cycles

Turbo Monkey
Jun 29, 2016
1,143
503
Wuffles said:
But in the early part of the travel, when you've done almost no compression of the shock, the leverage ratio of the linkage is really not that important. Case in point: Nomad vs Capra have almost identical leverage curves past the sag point, but the nomad is the usual regressive-progressive of VPP, while the Capra is straight progressive and starts out with a much higher leverage ratio than the Nomad (3.3 vs 2.5, IIRC). The difference in breakaway force between the two comes down to who serviced their shock seals last.
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I want to focus on the first part of your statement. Usually, you are correct, the leverage ratio is not that important at the early part of the travel. For most suspension designers (myself included), this is where you might make a compromise to get your more ideal rate thru the rest of the travel. In the case of the Missing Link, I paid extra attention to that part of the travel. Because now, it is in my usable, rideable range of travel, not just negative travel as with all other bikes. I chose to use a pretty extreme falling rate in that portion, for the reasons I mentioned.
 
Tantrum Cycles

Tantrum Cycles

Turbo Monkey
Jun 29, 2016
1,143
503
Hey Everyone, we are going to have a graphic design contest for our 2017 production bikes. I'll post details here tomorrow.
 
Lelandjt

Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,516
828
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
Is murdered out a graphic design? Is it still popular? I don't think all black has ever kept someone from buying a bike so it seems the safest choice. All my bikes are all black cuz I don't have time to pick out a "color-way", then coordinate the components.
 
4130biker

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,884
450
Black with easy to buy replacement sticker packs would be kick butt IMO.
Kinda like fox and (I think) enve do.
 
Tantrum Cycles

Tantrum Cycles

Turbo Monkey
Jun 29, 2016
1,143
503
norbar said:
If it's a contest without pay or job offer at the end you will anger most graphic designers who will see it
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Ha. NOT TRUE!! It's a contest that will offer a grand prize of a 100% off on a frame and shock. Value...more than any graphic designer would ever get paid for such a project.

Catch, we have to like it and the general public has to vote on the finalists.

And if that pisses of most graphic designers, oh well, there's always murdered out black

Final details tomorrow.
 
Tantrum Cycles

Tantrum Cycles

Turbo Monkey
Jun 29, 2016
1,143
503
Tantrum Cycles said:
Ha. NOT TRUE!! It's a contest that will offer a grand prize of a 100% off on a frame and shock. Value...more than any graphic designer would ever get paid for such a project.

Catch, we have to like it and the general public has to vote on the finalists.

And if that pisses of most graphic designers, oh well, there's always murdered out black

Final details tomorrow.
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oh ya, murdered out black is not a graphic design and will not be considered for any prize
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,369
1,605
Warsaw :/
Tantrum Cycles said:
Ha. NOT TRUE!! It's a contest that will offer a grand prize of a 100% off on a frame and shock. Value...more than any graphic designer would ever get paid for such a project.

Catch, we have to like it and the general public has to vote on the finalists.

And if that pisses of most graphic designers, oh well, there's always murdered out black

Final details tomorrow.
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Sorry but is that the price for one color and logo? The price depends on the quality of the work. Not to mention if the designer wants to actually eat and live he has to sell the frame which will cut into the amount of money he gets. It's also a great way to pay him less since the frame costs you less than it is worth.

Not to mention all the designers who will work for free. Some kids who start with design might be tempted but any self respecting profesional will be pissed by such an offer. Any marketing or design agency would charge you at least some money for a project, even if you reject it.
 
W

wood booger

Monkey
Jul 16, 2008
668
72
the land of cheap beer
norbar said:
Sorry but is that the price for one color and logo? The price depends on the quality of the work. Not to mention if the designer wants to actually eat and live he has to sell the frame which will cut into the amount of money he gets. It's also a great way to pay him less since the frame costs you less than it is worth.

Not to mention all the designers who will work for free. Some kids who start with design might be tempted but any self respecting profesional will be pissed by such an offer. Any marketing or design agency would charge you at least some money for a project, even if you reject it.
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You may be surprised, at least in the bike industry.

There are quite a few ID guys I know who work full time for one of the top 5 bike companies. They are typically all about outside work/projects like this. Sometimes for a couple hundred bucks, sometimes for some beer, sometimes for some free product.

A true "arteeest" likes to be able to create designs on their own, without the input of a marketing dept or some CEO douche knob.

This isn't Apple or Silicon Valley we're talking about here......
 
Tantrum Cycles

Tantrum Cycles

Turbo Monkey
Jun 29, 2016
1,143
503
norbar said:
Sorry but is that the price for one color and logo? The price depends on the quality of the work. Not to mention if the designer wants to actually eat and live he has to sell the frame which will cut into the amount of money he gets. It's also a great way to pay him less since the frame costs you less than it is worth.

Not to mention all the designers who will work for free. Some kids who start with design might be tempted but any self respecting profesional will be pissed by such an offer. Any marketing or design agency would charge you at least some money for a project, even if you reject it.
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I have dealt with a few graphic designers over the decades, including the very prominent, award winning local place that did the love/hate graphics of the current show bikes. The people I have dealt with tell me that the price of a good frame and shock, let's just say north of $2K (final price still tbd), is waaaayyyy more than they would ever charge for such a project and in fact couple of them have entered the contest themselves. If, in fact, one is living paycheck to mouth, perhaps a 2k bike frame is not good pay. But if you happen to be in the market, for say, a brand new, ground breaking bike, it might be a pretty good paycheck. The catch, of course, is that you have to win.

But also, there is a discount voucher off the price of a new frame for the 2nd and 3rd place runnerup, so my costs are higher than you might think.

It IS a great way to get more than one choice in a short amount of time. Last time, I got what I got for graphics and it was off to the show. And I like the involvement of the community. To me, the bike is a piece of art and I know there are artists out there who would love to contribute. Is it all about the money??!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, YES, THAT'S IT. That's why I walked away from Big Time Motor Racing to make my millions (of pennies) in the bike industry.

So, if it's only for the money, I'm thinking that design wouldn't win anyway. I want passion, art. and I don't care if it's a pro level designer or not. We have lower award levels for less professional designs that might need a pro's finish. If it's a kid with a crayon drawing on a napkin and we like it, good enough.

To any and all self respecting professionals that are pissed by my offer, don't be pissed, just don't enter.

And you're right about one thing, most places charge you whether you like it or not. That sucks. It really does. It's like when I drilled a well and it came up dry and I had to pay for it anyway. The design team can come up with murdered out black and charge you money. Most bike companies have graphics guys on staff, so they can just send him back when his idea sucks.
 
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Tantrum Cycles

Tantrum Cycles

Turbo Monkey
Jun 29, 2016
1,143
503
wood booger said:
You may be surprised, at least in the bike industry.

There are quite a few ID guys I know who work full time for one of the top 5 bike companies. They are typically all about outside work/projects like this. Sometimes for a couple hundred bucks, sometimes for some beer, sometimes for some free product.

A true "arteeest" likes to be able to create designs on their own, without the input of a marketing dept or some CEO douche knob.

This isn't Apple or Silicon Valley we're talking about here......
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At any rate, the contest is on. Grand prize at pro level, 100% off voucher on a 2017 Tantrum frame. Lower levels of award for less profesional entries. Guaranteed award for top 3 entries. Check it out at www.tantrumcycles.com
 
ianjenn

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
3,001
704
SLO
wood booger said:
You may be surprised, at least in the bike industry.

There are quite a few ID guys I know who work full time for one of the top 5 bike companies. They are typically all about outside work/projects like this. Sometimes for a couple hundred bucks, sometimes for some beer, sometimes for some free product.

A true "arteeest" likes to be able to create designs on their own, without the input of a marketing dept or some CEO douche knob.

This isn't Apple or Silicon Valley we're talking about here......
Click to expand...
That in itself is the problem. The bike industry as a whole makes little money and in turn spends very little money. Are they going to hire a photog like Tim Tadder to create an AD to use for the year at a day rate of $125K plus dollars? Nope they get a decent file pass it along to their highly creative Graphics team and it will be good enough. Just a reminder of how bad bike industry art departments can be....just look below.

 
4130biker

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,884
450
I was first with the all black idea, so back off everyone! The bike is MINE!
 
4130biker

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,884
450
Sandwich said:
um, murdered out black is not a design. All you qualify for is a 1999 Fisher Level Betty.
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You're just mad that your "crayon drawing" all black design needs finished by a professional like me. I win the grand prize.
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,369
1,605
Warsaw :/
wood booger said:
You may be surprised, at least in the bike industry.

There are quite a few ID guys I know who work full time for one of the top 5 bike companies. They are typically all about outside work/projects like this. Sometimes for a couple hundred bucks, sometimes for some beer, sometimes for some free product.

A true "arteeest" likes to be able to create designs on their own, without the input of a marketing dept or some CEO douche knob.

This isn't Apple or Silicon Valley we're talking about here......
Click to expand...
I'm not really taking silicon valley. I'm talking about the industry. All the guys who design graphics from the companies I know are either full time employed or have a contract to do so and those are mid size companies. Sorry but no company will give a designer 100% free will.

Also really someone designed the paintjob on something like the demo or an intense for a beer?

Not to mention dou you reall think only silicon valley employed graphic designers work for this rare thing called a salary? Last time I have heard we are partaking in a dangerous sport so it is nice to be afford to visit a doctor when I brake my arm. If a company cannot afford to pay a US wage then they can hire someone from Eastern Europe. The wages here are much more affordable and a graphic designer doesn't have to be on site. Otherwise design it yourself or well convince a friend. Not take advantage of some random kid. I love how there is a huge number of people who think you can work for credit or as part of a competition. Ffs this is not threadless.
 
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norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,369
1,605
Warsaw :/
ianjenn said:
That in itself is the problem. The bike industry as a whole makes little money and in turn spends very little money. Are they going to hire a photog like Tim Tadder to create an AD to use for the year at a day rate of $125K plus dollars? Nope they get a decent file pass it along to their highly creative Graphics team and it will be good enough. Just a reminder of how bad bike industry art departments can be....just look below.

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Shit design happens on any paygrade. Just look at movie posters. I work with movie studios on a semi regular basis and the shit their marketing teams come up with despite being paid a ton is incomprehensible.

Overal I think its understandable the bike industry pays less. The same way small niche magazines about fancy shmancy hipstery stuff pay less for photos. Still I think you should pay someone for his job, even if it's shit pay. it's a matter of principle. Especially when specialized and a few others at least claims they are a full grown company, not a business that takes place in my moms garage.

Though at least from what I gather most big companies actually pay. Just pay less. I know quite a few photographers and videographers who make some money. The only problem is they wages are good only because they live in Poland.
 
W

wiscodh

Monkey
Jun 21, 2007
833
121
303
im thinkin an obsidian on an onyx graphic scheme would be amazing. Ill send you a bill for 100% off 1.356 of a frame. Thanks.
 
W

wood booger

Monkey
Jul 16, 2008
668
72
the land of cheap beer
norbar said:
I'm not really taking silicon valley. I'm talking about the industry. All the guys who design graphics from the companies I know are either full time employed or have a contract to do so and those are mid size companies. Sorry but no company will give a designer 100% free will.

Also really someone designed the paintjob on something like the demo or an intense for a beer?

Not to mention dou you reall think only silicon valley employed graphic designers work for this rare thing called a salary? Last time I have heard we are partaking in a dangerous sport so it is nice to be afford to visit a doctor when I brake my arm. If a company cannot afford to pay a US wage then they can hire someone from Eastern Europe. The wages here are much more affordable and a graphic designer doesn't have to be on site. Otherwise design it yourself or well convince a friend. Not take advantage of some random kid. I love how there is a huge number of people who think you can work for credit or as part of a competition. Ffs this is not threadless.
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I am saying that full time, with a salary and full insurance, ID guys working for another company are often stoked on projects like this. No, the Demo graphics weren't designed for beer. More like the full salary guy that got paid to design the Demo graphics helped a small company out in his spare time for some! Why? Because he has passion for graphic design.

I think a kid fresh out of school would be the same. Stoked to see his/her design out in the world and with something to put on their resume. I don't think anyone is taken advantage of.

I don't know what kind of ID-human-trafficking-slave-trade stuff is going on over on your side, but it sounds shitty.

Having said that, here is my entry!
I call it White Hype.



 
4130biker

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,884
450
wood booger said:
Having said that, here is my entry!
I call it White Hype.
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I workshopped your name for you with some double blind random sampling surveys among stoked dentists and I'll take a 60% cut of the winnings:

Behold, the WHYPE colourwayz!
 
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