[Silver]

Chernobyl you can blame on shoddy Soviet workmanship. Three Mile Island was good old fashioned "oops" but not a huge deal.

If the Japanese can't build them to withstand foreseeable natural disasters, you can kiss the industry (which only works with massive government subsidies anyways) goodbye for good.

 

[Toshi]

Biggest earthquake in recorded Japanese history is not a typical natural disaster.

 

[IH8Rice]

Chernobyl happened because of a mistake as well as crappy generators.

a mega earthquake is not what id consider "foreseeable"

 

[Silver]

Biggest earthquake in recorded Japanese history is not a typical natural disaster.

I didn't say typical, I said foreseeable. Just like California is going to be fvcked when the big one finally hits.

This isn't going to end like Chernobyl at all...at worst, it'll be Three Mile Island, but still, it will kill the industry (in the US.)

 

[IH8Rice]

but still, it will kill the industry.

no, it wont.
Chernobyl and TMI didnt kill the industry and those were far worse than what is happening in Japan

 

[Silver]

no, it wont.
Chernobyl and TMI didnt kill the industry and those were far worse than what is happening in Japan

Yeah, but I already kinda dealt with why Chernobyl was different, no?

As for TMI not having any effect, that explains the explosion (HA!) in plant construction in my lifetime, I guess...

 

[IH8Rice]

Yeah, but I already kinda dealt with why Chernobyl was different, no?

As for TMI not having any effect, that explains the explosion (HA!) in plant construction in my lifetime, I guess...

what happened in Chernobyl could happen anywhere. mistakes were made by morons there....unfortunately there are morons everywhere in the world

there have been plenty of new plants built in the world....just not in the U.S. (though some were completed after the TMI accident)

 

[Silver]

there have been plenty of new plants built in the world....just not in the U.S. (though some were completed after the TMI accident)

Sure-I was speaking specifically for the US. Wasn't clear in the original post (not even mentioned, actually) and I apologize for that.

 

[Pesqueeb]

Have to admit I immediately thought the same thing as Silver. If they have to release even a fart of slightly tainted steam (which as of this time I haven't heard) there will be no hope for nuclear power in the states. Which is a damn shame. Conversely though if the Japanese can get a lock down on every thing this will be the opportunity for the industry to tout how safe it can be again.

 

[velocipedist]

All they are talking about on the radio right now is how if they use the release valve it does filter the steam, but not completely and extensive monitoring will be done if they proceed. ie big ass earthquake, we are trying to cool the reactor to take down pressure if that doesnt work, lesser evil of two ****ty choices explosion < radioactive steam...

forseeable ? yes, able to accurately prepare ? up for debate..

 

[IH8Rice]

If they have to release even a fart of slightly tainted steam (which as of this time I haven't heard) there will be no hope for nuclear power in the states. Which is a damn shame.

there wasnt a glimmer of hope for new plants before Obama's initial announcement for federal loans at the beginning of last year. though 4-6 new plants should be coming online somewhat soon

 

[Silver]

All they are talking about on the radio right now is how if they use the release valve it does filter the steam, but not completely and extensive monitoring will be done if they proceed. ie big ass earthquake, we are trying to cool the reactor to take down pressure if that doesnt work, lesser evil of two ****ty choices explosion < radioactive steam...

forseeable ? yes, able to accurately prepare ? up for debate..

I'm actually pro-nuclear power. I just don't want a CEO with an MBA running things...

Americans are not known for their love of nuanced arguments. Radiating Japanese people results in Godzilla, radiating a bunch of Americans means that they might die of cancer before their horrendous lifestyle choices have a chance to kill them, and that isn't acceptable.

 

[sanjuro]

Uh, let's see what happens before you start your victory parade.

P.S. 75% of Japan's electricity is nuclear. Think they are going to switch to solar overnight?

 

[valve bouncer]

Uh, let's see what happens before you start your victory parade.

P.S. 75% of Japan's electricity is nuclear. Think they are going to switch to solar overnight?

Actually more like 30% but what's a factor of 2.5 between friends?

 

[I Are Baboon]

They'll just build the next plant stronger and safer.

 

[sanjuro]

Actually more like 30% but what's a factor of 2.5 between friends?

Sorry, got it mixed up with France, which is about 75%.

I usually mention both countries as depending on nuclear power, but actually SK uses a higher percentage.

 

[valve bouncer]

They'll just build the next plant stronger and safer.

IAB I don't mean to sound patronising so I'm sorry if I come off that way but an 8.9 magnitude quake will have the capacity to destroy anything man-made. This quake moved the whole country 8 feet, how is any made made structure going to be able to withstand that kind of force?

 

[I Are Baboon]

IAB I don't mean to sound patronising so I'm sorry if I come off that way but an 8.9 magnitude quake will have the capacity to destroy anything man-made. This quake moved the whole country 8 feet, how is any made made structure going to be able to withstand that kind of force?

Unlikely it won't but they'll improve on how the reactors are shut down, cooled, or sealed off. Disasters have never stopped man from trying again, and with every disaster man has learned from it.

Granted I am no nuclear physicist or structural engineer...

 

[Silver]

Uh, let's see what happens before you start your victory parade.

P.S. 75% of Japan's electricity is nuclear. Think they are going to switch to solar overnight?

Sure-I was speaking specifically for the US. Wasn't clear in the original post (not even mentioned, actually) and I apologize for that.

 

[valve bouncer]

Unlikely it won't but they'll improve on how the reactors are shut down, cooled, or sealed off. Disasters have never stopped man from trying again, and with every disaster man has learned from it.

Granted I am no nuclear physicist or structural engineer...

I guess i was saying I agree with Silver. I think nuclear power is a good idea but can see no way it can be made for all intents and purposes safe in the way say a coal fired power plant is or a hydro-electric dam can be.

 

[jonKranked]

China is in the process of vastly increasing their nuclear power infrastructure.

 

[KavuRider]

I guess i was saying I agree with Silver. I think nuclear power is a good idea but can see no way it can be made for all intents and purposes safe in the way say a coal fired power plant is or a hydro-electric dam can be.

Didn't a dam also burst in Japan?

You're right though, especially in the eyes of most people. General public sees Nuclear and thinks radiation and death.

Or Homer Simpson

 

[Silver]

China is in the process of vastly increasing their nuclear power infrastructure.

Sure-I was speaking specifically for the US. Wasn't clear in the original post (not even mentioned, actually) and I apologize for that.

 

[Pesqueeb]

Jesus.

The core of a nuclear reactor damaged by Friday&#8217;s massive earthquake has partially melted, Japan&#8217;s nuclear safety agency said Saturday, and the company that runs the plant is pouring seawater into the reactor in an attempt to cool it and prevent it from going critical.
<large snip>
The Japanese authorities have classified the event at Fukushima Daiichi Unit 1 as a level 4 "accident with local consequences" on the International Nuclear and Radiological Event Scale (INES). The scale is used to consistently communicate the safety significance of events associated with sources of radiation. The scale runs from 0 (deviation -- no safety significance) to 7 (major accident).

The 1979 Three Mile Island accident in Pennsylvania was a level 5 ("accident with wider consequences"). The 1986 Chernobyl disaster was a level 7 ("major accident).
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42044156/ns/world_news-asiapacific/

Is there really such a thing as a "minor" nuclear incident?

 

[stevew]

IAB I don't mean to sound patronising so I'm sorry if I come off that way but an 8.9 magnitude quake will have the capacity to destroy anything man-made. This quake moved the whole country 8 feet, how is any made made structure going to be able to withstand that kind of force?

shims?

 

[Secret Squirrel]

shims?

You need moar...

 

[BikeMike]

Unlikely it won't but they'll improve on how the reactors are shut down, cooled, or sealed off. Disasters have never stopped man from trying again, and with every disaster man has learned from it.

I heard from someone who knows more about this kind of thing than I do that it's an older technology reactor (old boiling water reactor) and may not have had a stellar history.

The problem was that it still requires some power to make the cooling work after a reactor shuts down, because there's a ton of residual heat. The earthquake interrupted power from elsewhere, so massive diesel generators started (as they are supposed to in that kind of situation). However, diesel generators don't work so hot when inundated with saltwater, which is how they were after the tsunami hit.

 

[MikeD]

You need moar...

Two demerits. One for obvious publicness...this woulda been a decent rep comment but it's just so rootbeer on the boards these days...

Second for not working in a Japanese-accent-joke, even in the wake of massive tragedy.

 

[MMike]

"rootbeer" as an adjective = win

 

[4xBoy]

massive government subsidies

Yeah coal, hydro, and gas pay there own way.

But to worry about the spill, didn't they have to clean up a little bigger spill the U.S. made a while ago?

I am wondering where the media is going to focus in this mess which is truly terrible. Will the nuclear problem be the highlight, or the mass amount of people and industry that are in real peril be considered.

If you followed my crazy ideas this far, what is the U.S. going to do in Libya now that the news is going to worry about Japan for awhile?

 

[Pesqueeb]

If you followed my crazy ideas this far, what is the U.S. going to do in Libya now that the news is going to worry about Japan for awhile?

You mean empty platitudes and meaningless gesticulations aren’t enough?

 

[4xBoy]

You mean empty platitudes and meaningless gesticulations aren’t enough?

Someone spent two dollars at the word store this fine Sunday morning.

 

[Pesqueeb]

Someone spent two dollars at the word store this fine Sunday morning.

Slow at work this morning.

 

[DaveW]

The earthquake interrupted power from elsewhere, so massive diesel generators started (as they are supposed to in that kind of situation). However, diesel generators don't work so hot when inundated with saltwater, which is how they were after the tsunami hit.

I was under the impression that the diesel backup had already failed before the Tsunami?

 

[Pesqueeb]

Its almost like Silver can see the future.

 

[4xBoy]

Its almost like Silver can see the future.

Off shore drilling ended for a while also.

 

[ohio]

We have an awful lot of land that isn't on a fault line. We won't get nukular power in Cali, but most of the rest of the country...

 

[Silver]

We have an awful lot of land that isn't on a fault line. We won't get nukular power in Cali, but most of the rest of the country...

Yeah, the rest of the country that burns oil and coal because Jesus wants it on fire?

 

[sanjuro]

Jesus.


Is there really such a thing as a "minor" nuclear incident?

Sure.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/03/near_three_mile_island_calm_re.html

An interagency analysis concluded that the accident did not raise radioactivity far enough above background levels to cause even one additional cancer death among the people in the area. They found no contamination in water, soil, sediment or plant samples.

http://www.epa.gov/history/topics/tmi/02.htm

 

[DaveW]

Very interesting write up on the problem or perhaps hyped pseudo problem here... I'm not even remotely enough of an expert to critique it. but his reasoning seems pretty valid on many points.
http://morgsatlarge.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/why-i-am-not-worried-about-japans-nuclear-reactors/

Friend of yours VB?