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Scott Genius TC (125mm/130mm) service

Discussion in 'The Shop' started by lsimoes, Mar 2, 2014.

  1. lsimoes

    lsimoes Chimp

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    Hi everyone!
    I got tired of having to send my scott genius rear shock to the shop for service, while having to
    - wait a couple of weeks for it to be ready
    - pay around 100€ for the delux service. This was the amount I payed last time I did it, 1 or 2 years back. Have another bike, so the services on this one got a little more spaced.

    Therefore, I started tearing the shock, while taking the necessary care so that I can reassemble it afterword.
    My idea is to post a tutorial on how to do it, safely, at home by your own (having a minimum experience and set of tools).

    Meanwhile, after dismantling all that seemed fairly easy (already have a nice list of o-rings to replace), I now got kind of stuck on the negative chamber. Here's a pic to help me explain it:
    Capture.PNG

    So, I'm trying to get in the main (-) chamber, where "high pressure inside, do not open" sticker is. Following the pic:
    1) just for me to secure the shock to a vice so that I can put some torque on it if needed (I think I'll need it)
    2) I tried to UN-screw these two pieces (they turn) but with no success.
    3) This is where my hopes lie.

    So, a couple of questions:
    a) Is there anyone who already tried/did it?
    b) Any ideias you would like to share?
    c) what should the procedure be to avoid any harm opening the "high pressure inside..." part?

    This is were any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

    Note: this is my first post here, so let me know your suggestions for improvement
    Also, english is not my first language, so sorry for any mistake.
     
    #1 -   Mar 2, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2014

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  2. lsimoes

    lsimoes Chimp

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    Hello!
    I've managed to get into the shock in the best of my knowledge. I didn't managed to get into the internal high pressure chamber because I don't want to ruin anything. This still has to work I get it back together! ;o)
    However, I do have a list of o-rings to replace =)
    There are some other Scott's proprietary seals that I don't know if it is possible to get though...

    Also, the internal high pressurization of the shock needs a special adapter in order to pump pressure into it.

    Below you may find the picture of the exploded shock.

    I'm going to try to place about 20ml of 15w oil on the (-) chamber, + 10ml in the (+) chamber, and the internal high pressure chamber also needs oil... so I guess I'm make it about 5-10ml of 5w oil into it.

    I used everyday tools (several size wrenches) to open it, where the only think I had to buy was the rubber protected clamps to secure the main body to a vice.

    Let me know if you have something useful to share!
    I'll keep you posted on the reassemble results!

    GeniusTC_Exploded.PNG
     
    #2 -   Apr 5, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
  3. Loche

    Loche Chimp

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    Keep on the good work! I'll try to service my TC shock in the next few days. I'll try to post picture too.

    My problems :
    - Lockout doesn't work anymore
    - Doesn't damp anymore. At the end of the course, some parts hit each others... (Probably a lack of oil)
    - Won't keep the necessary pressure anymore.

    I'm originally from Montreal, but now lives in Vancouver. Let me know where you find your parts and seals.

    Cheers!
     
    #3 -   Apr 7, 2014
  4. lsimoes

    lsimoes Chimp

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    This shock is made of 3 chambers, 2 chamber accessible to the user (+ and -) and another high pressure chamber which resides inside the piston sleeve and contributes to keep the shock 'closed', is where the damper is built and also has something to do with the traction control (lock to tc).

    IMPORTANT note: Be sure to use protective gear at all times. Remove all pressure from the shock chambers before working on it! Acknowledge the risk and that your doing it at your responsibility. Your know the drill! :rant:

    All,
    I have updated the pic with additional detail regarding the shock seals.
    I'll try to go to a specialty store to see if there's replacements for it, and how much it costs.

    Hi Loche,
    From what you describe, here's what I think are the causes for it:
    - damp/lockout: it seems that your internal high pressure chamber is empty (air or/and oil)
    This one I haven't figured out exactly how to fill in... I guess I'll have to make some kind of adapter to be able to pump some air into it.
    - losses pressure: either the seals are leaking and/or the piston is cracked (this has happened to me a few times :shocked:).
    If your able to extend it, then you can take a closer look into the piston sleeve to see if there's any sign of wear or cracks.

    It''s great that there's someone else working on it! :thumb:
    Regarding the seals, I currently leave in Lisbon/Portugal... so the specialty store I'm going to search the replacement parts is nearby! I guess it's to far for you! :D

    I'll keep you posted on my findings.

    Cheers!
     
    #4 -   Apr 7, 2014
  5. lsimoes

    lsimoes Chimp

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    After visiting the local shop, and with their help, all o-rings were remeasured and the pic posted on a previous post updated. They had everything needed for the shock at around 20€!

    I already started assembling it and it should be finished tomorrow!
    Feeling excited! :weee:
     
    #5 -   Apr 8, 2014
  6. Loche

    Loche Chimp

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    Wow! Good job!

    Thanks for the input. I should take it appart in the next few days. I'll keep you posted...
     
    #6 -   Apr 8, 2014
  7. lsimoes

    lsimoes Chimp

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    I've put all the bits and pieces back together!
    Holding pressure and I can stand on my bike! :D

    The thing that's missing is to restore internal chamber pressure!
    Because of that, shock feels like it is always on the full travel option with none or little rebound control.

    Anyway... I've see some posts somewhere talking about having to build an adapter in order to be able to charge the shock with regular air (instead of special gas). If anyone knows/has the adapter to fill in the shock let me know! I would appreciate it and would like to get a 'copy' of that!

    Meanwhile, when I have the time, I'll pass through Scott's service store to see if I can get the internal chamber refill!
     
    #7 -   Apr 9, 2014
  8. Loche

    Loche Chimp

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    Hey lsimoes,

    How is that shock doing? Did you figure out how to fill the internal chamber?

    Let me know!

    Cheers
     
    #8 -   May 7, 2014
  9. lsimoes

    lsimoes Chimp

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    Last time I posted I was going to the local shop for a refill!
    Well, that's what I did! It was an unusual request for them!
    They charged me 20€ for it and called it a special favor, but it was worth it!

    The shock is working fine, holding pressure!
    Missing in all of this is actually understanding the refill process and get my hands on an adapter!

    Maybe someone in the community will come up with a solution for it!
     
    #9 -   May 8, 2014
  10. Loche

    Loche Chimp

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    Thanks for the input! I guess I'll figure out how to fill the internal chamber...

    I just ordered my o-rings from theoringstore.com ... I'll put on a list of imperial/standard sized o-rings soon...

    My TC Shock was completely empty of oil (!)... so I'm not so sure what chambers I should fill. Where did you place your oil exactly?

    Cheers
     
  11. lsimoes

    lsimoes Chimp

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    These were aprox. the oil quantities I used:
    (-) chamber: 20ml of 15w oil
    (+) chamber: 10ml of 15ml oil

    I placed it in with a syringe during assembly through the user air valves (while the inner valves are not yet assembled). Let me know how it goes and if you use other quantities.
     
    #11 -   May 9, 2014
    Last edited: May 9, 2014
  12. Nikoss

    Nikoss Chimp

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    Hello, I still enjoyed this post with interest. I think you're doing a great job ... congratulations.

    Because of my dissatisfaction with the service Scott Spain, wrote an email to DT SWISS Europe (Scott are manufacturers Modus TC 3), requesting the maintenance kit shock. But they replied that they can supply it only Scott and Scott refuses to supply spare parts to bike shops or private customers. (In Spain)

    I'll try to get the shock seals in my city, although some seem pretty hard to get (the square profile that separates the camera + -).
    Keep attentive and when joints get shock, I will maintain my TC Scott.
    regards



    [Hola, sigo con mucho interés este post. Creo que estás haciendo un gran trabajo...felicidades.
    Debido a mi descontento con el servicio técnico de Scott España, escribí un email a DT SWISS Europa(son los fabricantes del Scott TC 3 Modus), solicitandoles el kit de mantenimiento del amortiguador. Pero me contestaron que solo Scott puede suministrarlo y Scott se niega a suministrar recambios a tiendas de bicis o clientes particulares.(en España)
    Intentaré conseguir las juntas del amortiguador en mi ciudad, aunque alguna parece bastante difícil de conseguir (la de perfil cuadrado que separa la cámara + de la - ).
    Seguiré atento y cuando consiga las juntas del amortiguador , haré el mantenimiento de mi Scott TC.
    Un saludo]
     
  13. gil

    gil Chimp

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    Hi all,

    do you have any progress with this?

    I have this LCR opened it and found that one of the shim valve ring is broken.
    any one knows where to find replacement?

    thanks
     
  14. gil

    gil Chimp

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    Hi,

    I just wanted to share with you how you can charge air through the pentagon bolt for Scott LCR or TC shock.
    we tried about 170-200PSI and it worked well. IMG_20140620_165738.jpg
     
  15. gil

    gil Chimp

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    IMG_53.jpg
     
  16. astrolopitecus

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    Hi, I have a genius 30, 2008, with TC buffer and I encourage repair, watching some videos online. Was very difficult to disassemble, but now that's all cleared, I saw the loading of air through the allen screw, which is at the bottom, using a special needle.
    In the case of my shock, we must also do the same or only done in the LCR?, Thanks in advance.

    P.D.: Nikoss, yo tambien estoy arto de pagar 120 laureles por el mantenimiento del amortiguador, ahora que lo e desmontado se ve, que sí, es complicado, pero con un par de juntas se repara la avería mas frecuente ( una Q.Ring de 2.65 x 9.8). Falta saber montarlo y que te suministren todas las juntas:

    AMORTIGUADOR SCOTT TC 2008 ( referencias de la marca Epidor)

    Q-ring 2.65x9.8x14.5 – EQ08A - 573.329
    " 3.6x 25.5x33 – EQ19A - 573.535
    " 5.3x 40.8x 51 – EQ29 - 573.683
    Tórica toro 1.2 x 3.5 – 568.868
    " " 1 x 4.5 – 537.175
    " " 2.0 x 6.5 – 680.413
    " " 2.5 x 8.4 – 690.610
    " " 2.62 x 17.86 – 466.029
    " " 1.6 x 20.1 – 301.458
    " " 2.5 x 21 – 683.995
    " " 1.5 x 51 – 342.632
    " " 2.2 x 10 – 592.204
    " " 1.0 x 22 – 985.072
    " " 1.2 x 3.0 – 411.675
    " " 1.5 x 2.8 – 363.816
    “ “ 1.5 x 8.5 – 399.710
    “ “ 1.8 x 7.8 – 698.705
    “ “ 1.6 x 21.1 – 672.010
     
  17. gil

    gil Chimp

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    TC or LCR I belive they charge the same way.
     
  18. astrolopitecus

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    Hi, Gil air charge in the third chamber is, when you have already loaded the other two more accessible, or otherwise pressure chambers to the camera system gets the rebound, rather than the other. You can still confirm the capabilities of oil and what type is the most desirable, thank you very much mate.

    P.d.:Lo pongo en español, debido a que pueda haber algún error en la traducción.

    Hola, Gil la carga de aire en la tercera camara se hace, cuando ya se han cargado las otras dos camaras mas accesibles, o por en contrario se mete presión a la camara del sistema de rebote, antes que a las otras. Me puedes confirmar las capacidades de aceite y que tipo es el mas aconsejable, muchas gracias compañero.
     
  19. Zaziki

    Zaziki Chimp

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    Hey,

    i am also working on the Scott TC rear shock. I found this great thread with some information about this.
    It is hard to find something about maintaince the shock.

    My Problem is that i'm stuck with the negativ chamber. I removed the piggy bag and the bottom part of the negativ Chamber, but i cant unscrew it like in the picture. It is so damn fix.

    How do you do it?
     
  20. astrolopitecus

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    Hello, I finally mounted the shock, with all new gaskets, I have put oil SAE5 and cushion without pressure being in cameras + and - and filling the air chamber of the pentagonal bolt with levers aperture cameras open. Do not reach over 150 PSI, and mount it on the bike I see is too hard.
    Does anyone know what I do wrong? Please, I'm thinking that I will not be able to recover, thanks to all for the contributions, adios.
     
  21. lsimoes

    lsimoes Chimp

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    Hi!
    First, sorry for taking so long to return here... somehow the email-auto-update stopped working and I assumed that there was no development here. Also, my shock only required maintenance now! =)

    Here's what I did to open the 'big' canister (neg. chamber):
    1. I had to buy the rubber protected clamps (related to plumbing I think). Check out the pics I posted previously.
    2. secured the main body to a vice using the clamps
    3. used an open-ended wrench/spanner applied at the top, where the shock is fastened on the bike, including the bushings to spread-out the forces more evenly. This allows for sufficient torque to be applied to unscrew the top of the chamber. Remember to empty the chambers of any air pressure first

    I hope this helps
     
  22. lsimoes

    lsimoes Chimp

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  23. lsimoes

    lsimoes Chimp

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    Hi!
    For the sock to become hard I see only these options:
    1. currently the actuator (lever, cables, cables adjustment) that controls the open-traction-control is not set-up/working properly
    2. there's too much pressure all together. Both the user + chamber, and the inner chamber filled with the needle adapter, contribute to the stiffness of the shock.
    3. the rebound is badly configured? (not really sure about this one)
     
  24. astrolopitecus

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    These are two videos on how to disassemble the damper. There are other parts to be used special tools to avoid damage, the areas where the slip rings. A video on how to inflate the inner chamber through a system that brings Gil, as I see complicated, insert the needle into the rubber that seals the screw pentagonal (five-sided) is missing.


     
  25. lsimoes

    lsimoes Chimp

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  26. astrolopitecus

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    hi, can anyone tell me if the long threaded shaft (which carries the main valve threaded on the end), has some small O-ring, valve closure ?. Because I broke the shaft to remove the damper shaft drill the rest of my remaining inside the valve, and certainly not as it was inside. Now with all assembled, leak fluid through the valve. Thanks for your help.

    hola, ¿alguien me puede decir, si el eje largo roscado (que lleva la válvula principal roscada en el extremo), tiene alguna junta tórica pequeña, que cierre con la válvula?. Debido a que rompí este eje al desmontar el amortiguador, taladre el resto de eje que me quedaba dentro de la válvula, y no se ciertamente como era en su interior. Ahora con todo montado, sale algo de líquido, por la válvula. Gracias por vuestra ayuda.
     
  27. lsimoes

    lsimoes Chimp

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    Hi! I'm not really sure of the place you refer to...
    1. can you check out the pic I placed on the 2nd thread (if you click on it, it will expand)?
    2. If you still need some advice, can you take a pic and point out where the oil is leaking?
     
  28. astrolopitecus

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    eje bloqueo.jpg
     
  29. lsimoes

    lsimoes Chimp

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    I never got to disassemble that part... looking at the pic I took of the shock, it does seem to be an o-ring there at the top. Or maybe I'm mistaken, and what seems to be an o-ring is rather the part were the shaft threads into.

    Just an additional thought though: if you keep the shock vertical, like when it is on the bike frame, does it leak?

    Sorry I can't be of further help. Maybe someone else might...
     
  30. Janpr

    Janpr Chimp

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    Hi everyone ...
    I'm new here and like lsimoes, english is not my first language, so ...
    I found this subject very interesting because i also had lsimoes problem. I've manage to do just what he has done. However, i want to get inside the main valve like astrolopitecus did, but i'm afraid to broke or scratch anything.
    I've tried, but it's hard to disassemble.
    Can, anyone or, can you astrolopitecus tell or show how did you do it. I'll be gratefull.

    Best regards.
     
  31. Janpr

    Janpr Chimp

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    Hi gil ...

    I had that problem too ...two shim valve rings broken ... i've manage to get a full kit from a Rockshocs dealer ... that brand is not like Scott :thumbsdown: ... however, i had to "adjust" the diameter. It's working !!!

    Best regards!!!
     
  32. astrolopitecus

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    2014-09-23 00.04.19.jpg
     
  33. astrolopitecus

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    Hi, this is for Janpr (or for which you are interested) are the jigs that I did both threads to unscrew the damper. In the small shaft, go unscrewing both the shaft and end valve, before removing the little prisoner. Then the part that makes the lock, you have to disassemble compas putting a wrench on the side there are many holes, and with a key (I think 10 m / m) in the exaltation of the other end. I really costs much open because the screw with a hexagonal head uncoiled, instead of dragging the screw with an aluminum part that forms the plunger, which is what must happen, be careful because it is a very fine step in aluminum parts.

    Ahhh, por cierto yo soy español de Santako, de al lado de Barcelona.

    Hola, esto es para Janpr ( o para el que le interese), son los utilajes que hize para desenroscar ambas roscas del amortiguador. En el eje pequeño, hay que ir desenroscando a la vez el eje y la válvula del extremo, quitando antes el prisionero pequeñito. Luego la parte que hace el bloqueo, hay que desmontarlo poniendo una llave de compas por el lado que hay muchos agujeros, y mediante una llave (creo que de 10 m/m) en el exagono del otro extremo. A mi me costo mucho abrirlo, porque se desenroscaba el tornillo de cabeza exagonal, en vez de arrastrar el tornillo junto una parte de aluminio que forma el émbolo, que es lo que tiene que pasar, tener cuidado por que es un paso muy fino en piezas de aluminio.
     
  34. astrolopitecus

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    E not yet achieved, the damping function properly, and that the pressure is already put in the third chamber air (or nitrogen ????), I think I put too much oil and then is forced, by exiting the valve top cushion, which makes the lock.

    Aún no e conseguido, que funcione correctamente el amortiguador, y eso que ya se meter la presion en la tercera camara de aire ( o nitrogeno????), creo que meto mucho aceite y luego esta forzado , por que sale por la valvula superior del amortiguador, la que hace el bloqueo.
     
  35. Janpr

    Janpr Chimp

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    Hi astrolopitecus ...

    I think that your problem is not in the quantity of oil ... i think it may be caused by a faulty o-ring in the lock-out mecanism ... pay atention that there is a tiny o-ring in the last piece (blue color) where the little prisioner goes that may be missing or faulty ... i think that if the problem were the quantity of oil, it would be a time that it should stop leaking, as soon as it reatches the right level.

    Hoping to be helpful.

    Best regards.
     
  36. Janpr

    Janpr Chimp

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    Thank you for sharing ... it's realy "hard stuff" ... althoug it scares me, i'm afraid to scratch something, but i'll give it a try ... congratulations.

    Bom, eu sou português de Espinho, perto de Porto.

    Best regards.
     
  37. astrolopitecus

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    Hi, could someone take a picture, the axis will be no blockage causes cushion, please I need to see the details of the end which is threaded, the black piece that takes the little prisoner (the mushroom).
     
  38. astrolopitecus

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    The damper works, it seems fine, but I have not lost oil blocks, because the axis I did not like the original 100x100, and the metal dish that makes valve closes and lock do not fit. All my problems are for having broken the long axis of the first time you disassemble.
     
  39. Nikoss

    Nikoss Chimp

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    Hello (Dani?), I've been a little off the bike these days, but I want to resume the post and I find it amazing the work you've done.
    In the end, what quantities and density of oil you used?
    I just read you needed a picture of finodonde threaded shaft locking lever, does still need?.
    A greeting and congratulations for the tutorial.

    Hola (Dani ?), he estado un poco apartado de la bici estas semanas, pero quiero retomar el post ya me parece impresionante el trabajo que has hecho.
    Al final, ¿que cantidades y densidad has utilizado de aceite ?
    Acabo de leer que necesitabas una foto del eje finodonde rosca la palanca de bloqueo, ¿la sigues necesitando ?.
    Un saludo desde Bétera (Valencia) y mis felicitaciones por el tutorial.
     
  40. astrolopitecus

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    hola Nikkos, si la sigo necesitando si me puedes hacer el favor de poner la foto, la aprovechariamos todos. Llevo dos salidas con la bici, y no pierde presion en las dos camaras, pero el bloqueo total no lo hace.