[essenmeinstuff]

I'm looking to replace the levers on my first gen saint brakes (BR-M800 callipers), looking at both SLX and Saint levers.

Whats the main difference?? From what I can tell there is an additional "lever stroke adjust" screw on the saint.

Is the saint worth the extra $$?

Application is aggressive trail/freeride and DH.

Thanks!

 

[Sandwich]

if you're talking about the m810 "new" saint levers, I couldn't tell a difference between having the bite point adjust screw backed out or tightened in. If the cost is significant, I'd skip it. I do like the saint levers though, not really any problems there.

 

[essenmeinstuff]

Yeah the saint M810, and the SLX M665, both the servo wave levers.

I just did the math, price difference is maybe $15 between them, so I think I'll go with the saints...

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

I've also noticed that I haven't noticed the adjuster screw doing anything...

 

[jonKranked]

Check into whether or not the new levers are even compatible with the first gen calipers. The new Saint brakes are 4-pots, whereas first gen Saint brakes are only single piston, so the newer levers **might** push out more fluid from the master cylinder.

 

[essenmeinstuff]

Not sure who it was, but there is a dude on here thats done the same thing.

Shimano could have done one of two things, use the same master cylinder piston area as teh SLX/XT levers (which run with basically the same callipers as the M800's), and then given the larger net area of the 4 pot callipers to give you more pad force for the same lever force, or increased the master cylinder piston area, and therefore give you the same force with the 4pot (and less with the 2 pot), since the 4pot saints are more power full (shimano claims 50% increase) I would say the master cylinder piston area is probably the same as SLX.

Plus shimano site does not specifically say the lever is only compatible with teh M810 calliper, it says compatible with "hydraulic disk brake".

 

[jonKranked]

I wasn't questioning the compatibility of SLX/XT levers with saint calipers (I am running xt levers on saint calipers). I was questioning compatibility between new/current gen levers and first gen calipers. However if its been done before successfully that's good to know.

 

[Sverre]

I don´t think the old shimano brakes (as M800) is compatible with the new Servowave brakes. Check this before you buy´em.

I was thinkin´of combining the M810 Saints calipers with the M975 XTR levers, but was told this would not be a good mix due to not servo wave levers.

 

[Nick]

OP: go ahead, I think you'll be fine mixing new/old.

I did something similar [post=3316827]HERE.[/post] Admittedly when I tried this I didn't even consider the piston sizes being an issue.
The combo works flawlessly and feels great.

edit: the bite adjust screw makes little noticeable difference to me either.

 

[essenmeinstuff]

Yeah I was going to say I always thought Shimano brake parts were 100% inter changeable.

Also M800 calliper = current XT calliper and therefore should work fine with servo wave.

I was mostly interested in knowing what the real diff between the SLX and the Saint levers are, cos from the shim site and visually its all in the spelling, and colours, and a few g's of weight...

 

[yetihenry]

Shimano UK told us we couldn't do it, so we did it, and they have been fine out on the trail for 6 months (new saint levers and old calipers).

 

[RMR]

I don't recommend mixing a Servo-Wave generation component with a pre-Servo-Wave component.

I just bought some M810 Saint brakes from a guy who attempted this and he claims it didn't work. He preferred the ergonomics of the M800 levers, which he connected to M810 calipers. He bled the system several times and attempted to modify the volume of oil in the system by bleeding with the caliper pistons at various positions, but nothing worked.

Here's my guess (and I could be way off):

The new levers (M810, at any rate) push more oil. If an old lever is used with a new caliper, the lever will have too much throw. If a new lever is used with an old caliper, there will be very little throw, which is tolerable. I have no idea how the lever actions compare once the Servo-Wave has kicked in, so I can't say how the power and feel will be affected.

 

[Nick]

... but nothing worked.

Can you elaborate? What exactly didn't work?

 

[RMboy]

if you're talking about the m810 "new" saint levers, I couldn't tell a difference between having the bite point adjust screw backed out or tightened in. If the cost is significant, I'd skip it. I do like the saint levers though, not really any problems there.

Agreed, it seem to do nothing!

 

[essenmeinstuff]

Yeah it is possible that the M810 levers are designed to push a little more oil due to the 4 pot calipers.

Maybe just due to that possibility the XT or SLX levers make more sense since the calipers on those brakes are pretty much the same as the M800 caliper (esp in the case of the XT's).

I don't mind giving up a little "bling" for more confidence that its going to work...

 

[Salami]

The older Saint lever kit was just up on Chainlove for $40. Two levers, hoses and bottles of brake fluid. I don't know what the newer levers sell for but $40 is going to be hard to beat.

 

[essenmeinstuff]

I saw that, went to buy it, but the $40 shipping killed that idea lol

 

[Salami]

Where are you? Shipping to me from clear across the country is only $6.

 

[essenmeinstuff]

east coast canada...

Last few times interesting small items have come up on CL the shipping makes it not so interesting, add the 10% or so for the exchange rate and it makes buying from CRC better with their free shipping above $270...

 

[Dogboy]

Also M800 calliper = current XT calliper and therefore should work fine with servo wave...

M800 caliper = last gen, not current XT caliper. The servo-wave XT levers (M775) work fine with the M800/M765 calipers though.

 

[essenmeinstuff]

Thanks, I think thats the route I'm going to go (XT levers) since there is only a few $ diff between those and the SLX levers

Now I just have to figure out what fittings to get to go with the goodridge lines...

 

[RMR]

Can you elaborate? What exactly didn't work?

I don't know what can be said that wasn't said in the post you quoted. Here's every last bit of information I know:

He tried to get more oil into the system to reduce the lever throw. The only way to do this is to bleed the brakes with the caliper pistons extended, then push the pistons back into their normal positions after everything is resealed.

This is a desperate measure and can result in inadequate piston retraction when the brakes get hot. I don't know if this guy had that particular problem; I just know he said the lever throw was still excessive, to the point of the lever reaching the end of its range without applying full force to the pistons.