[Harry BarnOwl]

Hey Ridemonkey,

My name's Harry, and I went full retard recently on my downhill bike and broke my neck. The method of injury was hyperflexion, which lead to an avulsion fracture of a transverse process of my C7 vertebrae. In plain english, my chin went so far into my chest that the muscle pulled a piece of one of my vertebrae off. I am happier than you can imagine that I'm not writing this from a wheelchair, and that my recovery only consists of wearing a foam brace for 6 weeks and some basic physio to get my neck moving properly after that.

My time off work whilst I recover has definitely given me time to reflect on the very real risk of this type of injury in our sport, and the ways we can possibly reduce it. I've spent some time looking at Leatt neck braces and their methodology and research has appealed to me, particularly as I have a degree in Physics and I'm a design engineer by trade. Having said that, the lack of independent verification concerns me, not to mention the hearsay from some riders (both MX and downhill) claiming that neck braces have caused other injury, or even perhaps caused a spinal injury through limiting natural movement of the neck.

What I'm interested in hearing from this particular corner of the internet is experiences with spinal injuries with or without neck protection. Was there any professional medical opinion on neck braces at the time?

I'm also interested to hear what other people's research has brought up, in particular if there has been any research done by professional bodies in MX or (less likely) downhill.

I can't be the only person interested in the answers, particularly after such an eventful world champs race with Mr Hill breaking his neck brace in a savage over the bars crash!

 

[aaronjb]

Great topic. I've been looking for some independent test results for a while but have found nothing. Even some aggregated data would be welcome.

Woo around safety equipment in sports is rampant.

Good luck with the recovery.

 

[Bikerpunk241]

When I fractured my back, there wasn't really any discussion on the DH circuit about neck braces. There was one guy who wore a neck doughnut in our local series, but that's all I ever remember seeing. This was 2002.

My injury wouldn't have been prevented from wearing a neck brace, and whether it would have lessened it is a good question. I went over the bars at high speed and lawn darted straight to the top of my head resulting in compression fractures of T7, T8, and T9 as well as breaking the transverse processes off the right side of those vertebrae and a bruise spinal chord in my C-spine area.

The question I have always wondered is whether a neck brace would have prevented the c-spine bruising or if it would have just put more of the energy into the rest of my body (shoulders and/or back) and would have resulted in more damage. The only lasting effects I currently have is back pain if I allow my core strength to wane, though I'm told I get to look forward to arthritis in the future.

I've since tried a leatt while riding DH, but due to limiting my mobility while riding (allowing me to look far enough ahead), I've stopped wearing it, though I do still wear it on the dirt bike......

 

[Udi]

A useful thread on the same topic:
http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/showthread.php?242464-neck-braces-yes-I-searched-the-archives
My thoughts in #20 and to a lesser extent #18.

Long story short, I'd just grab one and run it. The naysayers will come up with some BS about tucking and rolling your way out of needing a neck brace, good luck doing that in a panic situation. I like ABS on cars for the same reason - even the best threshold braking skills go out the window when things go wrong.

 

[Harry BarnOwl]

Bikerpunk241,

That sounds like a horrendous injury. How long was your recovery time? Glad to hear you're still riding today.

Udi,

Thanks for that, I'll have a read. I actually did kind of tuck and roll in my crash, which is in fact what caused my injury.

 

[Harry BarnOwl]

This was one of Udi's post from Rotorburn, for those who haven't clicked:

Having been in the same boat as you, I think you're looking at it the wrong way. You're suggesting that wearing a neck brace may not save you from a serious neck injury, which I agree with. But is wearing one going to cause you any harm apart from the obvious damage to your wallet? There's the occasional report of collarbone damage from a Leatt, but these reports seem scattered and inconclusive - and can probably be thrown in the "I was wearing a neckbrace and it saved my life" pile. So really, you've potentially wasted ~$200-600, and potentially decreased your chances of having a serious neck injury. If the latter doesn't prove true, you've wasted a few hundred dollars - who hasn't. However if it does prove true, you've done pretty well. It's really not a large investment, so even at a complete gamble (i.e. assuming the data being thrown around is a complete crock) it's not really that big of a deal to buy and wear one.

Personally, I've got a 'friend of a friend of mine' story which swayed me a little, an athletic young woman was riding in Whistler and went off a drop a little nose heavy, and didn't walk away. She's now a paraplegic, obviously cannot do any physical activity, ended her long term relationship, and had do adapt to a completely new life (which I'm told she did and is doing well). The general consensus relayed to me was that a neck brace could have prevented or lessened the severity of her accident.

Who knows if that's accurate, chances are I'm just wearing an expensive neck ornament - but big deal - chicks do it all the time. Plus it looks cool and now I can fit in with my friends.

I have also heard people talking about broken collarbones with Leatt's (again, completely anecdotal). I have also however heard that Leatt responded to this and said that it was a result of improper setup. Google doesn't return anything on this topic, can anyone else verify?

 

[TrumbullHucker]

just ask sam hill from yesterday! i have to admit, i have a leatt in the back of my wagon and everytime i ride a park i dont wear it. which is god damn stupid because you never know when your going down hard. will start wearing it

 

[StiHacka]

I could not believe my eyes when Sam Hill crashed then dusted himself and went on. The brace saved his neck, no doubt about that.

 

[TrumbullHucker]

this angle freaks me out

 

[kickstand]

Hey Ridemonkey,

My name's Harry, and I went full retard recently on my downhill bike and broke my neck. The method of injury was hyperflexion, which lead to an avulsion fracture of a transverse process of my C7 vertebrae. In plain english, my chin went so far into my chest that the muscle pulled a piece of one of my vertebrae off. I am happier than you can imagine that I'm not writing this from a wheelchair, and that my recovery only consists of wearing a foam brace for 6 weeks and some basic physio to get my neck moving properly after that.

My time off work whilst I recover has definitely given me time to reflect on the very real risk of this type of injury in our sport, and the ways we can possibly reduce it. I've spent some time looking at Leatt neck braces and their methodology and research has appealed to me, particularly as I have a degree in Physics and I'm a design engineer by trade. Having said that, the lack of independent verification concerns me, not to mention the hearsay from some riders (both MX and downhill) claiming that neck braces have caused other injury, or even perhaps caused a spinal injury through limiting natural movement of the neck.

What I'm interested in hearing from this particular corner of the internet is experiences with spinal injuries with or without neck protection. Was there any professional medical opinion on neck braces at the time?

I'm also interested to hear what other people's research has brought up, in particular if there has been any research done by professional bodies in MX or (less likely) downhill.

I can't be the only person interested in the answers, particularly after such an eventful world champs race with Mr Hill breaking his neck brace in a savage over the bars crash!

I can't answer any of your questions....but damn, I had a similar injury (not on a bike) where my chin drove itself into my sternum so hard that I broke my sternum.....That sucked too.

I've fractured L4/L5 in the past. Again not bike related (barefoot waterskiing)

I wear a Leatt. I'd rather brake any bone in my body than risk breaking another vertebrae, so I wear it. I can't confirm its the right choice, but its the choice I feel comfortable with at this point in time.

I have crashed with it on, did not break any bones. I have wrecked a helmet with it on, I have felt my helmet slam into the brace and the brace in turn slam into my shoulders during a crash, I did feel like the brace helped restrain my neck from bending further than it should.

Outside of that, I can't be very helpful, but I will continue at this point in time to wear my leatt.

 

[kickstand]

Udi,

Thanks for that, I'll have a read. I actually did kind of tuck and roll in my crash, which is in fact what caused my injury.

As a kid my dad allowed me to learn to barefoot waterski at a young -ish age.....he was very concerned with a scorpion like crash (very common) and drilled tuck and roll into my head.

In your case (and mine) I think the tuck and roll certainly caused the inuries we received, but I do know in my case had I not tucked I think it would have been worse. I wish I had my helmet and a neck brace on when I got hurt.

I was jumping on a trampoline with my kids and was talked into trying a stupid human trick and under-rotated and tucked last second to land on the top/back of my head instead of on my face with the momentum of my body going the wrong way (scorpion direction).

 

[Harry BarnOwl]

Damn, that's pretty unlucky. All good now though?

I actually wonder if the helmet creates issues in that respect - the added distance between head/ground being enough to push your neck beyond it's normal range of movement. Obviously the risk of head injuries from not wearing one makes it a fairly pointless thought though.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I think I'm going to bite the bullet and buy one. At worst it's a waste of a bit of money, I have friends who spend that amount on some nights out getting shitfaced. At best it could prevent a life ending or life changing injury. I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that they can do more harm than good. I'm still interested to know why some top downhill riders have actually stopped wearing them in recent years? Sam Blenkinsop, Brook Macdonald and Gee Atherton to name three. Especially interested in Atherton's reasoning, considering his brother's close call with paralysis/death from a compression injury.

 

[frango]

Let me add my 2 cents...
First, I've started using LB when it has still been new product. I've got original GPX Club, I guess (nylon, but with both front and rear adjustment). I can't say it has saved my live several times, coz, fortunately, I haven't had any very serious crashes in recent years. However, crashes I had, might have ended with sore neck, if I had no LB, for sure.
You have to take into consideration fact, that neck braces have changed much since 2009/2010

Why I decided to use neck brace, at all...? I looked at motorsports like F1 or rallyes where vast majority of drivers uses HANS (or similar system). Hits in rallye crashes are so hard, that parts of body, which are not securely fasten to the seat may be easily injured.
So, when we go down, our heads bounce around. It's good to have some kind of protection.

As for "collateral damage" - rumored broken collar bones, etc. I'd rather suffer from such injury, than spend rest of my life on a wheelchair :|

I've heard that some pros stopped using neck braces because movement restriction. It may be related to specific body build + helmet design.

And at the end... my buddy had a huge crash on Crabapple hits few weeks ago. He head landed first big one. Typical compression damage of C3 to C5, as far as I remember. Helmet cracked inside and outside in several places. At the moment, he is still parallized from chest below. It was a kind of crash when neck braces help very little. BUT, I think it might have been worse, if he had no LB.

 

[chillindrdude]

The nature of personal protective devices hinders any randomized trials, 3rd party or otherwise. Sorry if I sound like a Leatt fanboi. But looking at their testing methodology and whitepapers. It appears they are adhering to previously proven safety standards. Impact simulation and testing cannot replicate every real-world impact but establishes a repeatable, consistent baseline to further refine improvements.

I think impact force redistribution, at least makes sense. Being a cervical injury can be life ending or incurring significant morbidity, I will gladly take rib/clavicle/scapula fractures in exchange.
I think Leatt is the industry leader, and all others are simply variations of the concept. Therefore, I choose to buy and use Leatt. The carbon version is what I use. Featherweight and I literally have forgotten I have it on.

 

[sundaydoug]

I literally have forgotten I have it on.

Same here. I can't speak for any other brace, but I've been riding with a Leatt DBX for the last two seasons and I completely forget that it's on my shoulders. Neck injuries can be quite serious (and expensive), so spending $200-$400 on something that could potentially save you from a lot of pain and money is a no-brainer to me. The fact that you can't even tell that you're wearing it is just a bonus.

 

[ScarredOne]

I'm glad everyone in this thread has escaped life in a wheelchair following their OTB crashes.

Having worked in spinal cord rehab with many clients, some of whom became injured while riding bmx or mountain bikes, I told myself that I would do whatever I could to minimize the risk of acquiring an SCI myself. There are no guarantees, but the up front cost of a device is nothing compared to the cost of 24 hour assisted care, rehab sessions, special medical attention, and most unfortunate--the toll it takes on the family of the individual who has the injury.

A buddy and I have both "used our Leatts", his last off resulting in a fractured clavicle which required internal fixation to mend. Was this caused by the Leatt? Possibly yes, possibly no (I don't see how Leatt blames broken clavicles on maladjusted braces--to resist a large hyper-flexion force, the load HAS to go somewhere).

All that being said, the last two riders/friends of mine who had cervical-level SCIs were pro/semi-pro nationals contenders in DH who attained their injuries riding XC with open-face helmets.

 

[supercow]

Seems the feedback pretty much echoes what you and I spoke about the other day Harry.
An additional anecdote for you to counter the collarbone breaking ones - I have shoulder barged quite a few trees / near hit them with my head, but missed and hit my Leatt in stead.

My collarbone / chestbones didn't break in those situations, with the leatt taking the brunt of the force, it's actually helped me NOT hurting myself in areas that it was not intended to protect.

I still shudder at the memory of the day I went full retard and seat bounced the 28ish footer at Woburn, without my Leatt on.

Had I landed with a bit more of an angle (in stead of completely flat starfished) and hyperflexed, my neck would have been in some serious danger.

 

[StiHacka]

Holy... Where in Woburn is that, near the horn pond?

 

[supercow]

I suspect we might be referring to different Woburns.
This is in Bedfordshire in the UK

 

[StiHacka]

Yeah, my bad, sorry. I was thinking about Woburn in Massachusetts.

 

[kickstand]

Damn, that's pretty unlucky. All good now though?

I actually wonder if the helmet creates issues in that respect - the added distance between head/ground being enough to push your neck beyond it's normal range of movement. Obviously the risk of head injuries from not wearing one makes it a fairly pointless thought though.

I fractured L4/L5 when I was 15, I still have some remaining SI Joint problems/hip problems/lower back problems 19 years later. If I remain flexible, strong, and cognicent of what irritates the issues I can primarily avoid them. So I do exactly that. Lots of stretching and strengthening.

As for my chin to sternum injury similar to yours it has been exactly one year and I feel no remaining affects of that injury at all.

Yes, 100% the helmet causes the additional stress and is why the neck brace (in my opinion) is even more necessary. The Chin guard acts as a lever and allows you to crank your neck even further than normal in some instances (scorpion), the helmet doesn't seem to me that it would make much of a difference in a full on lawn dart compression, but then again in that instance as you noted with out a helmet you'd either die or be a vegetable regardless.

My son (now 9 years) has been wearing one of the EVS braces for a few years now, he hasn't quite gotten to super high speed scorpion crash phase of his riding yet, but for the small price (under $100 for the youth brace) it provides peice of mind and is more compatible with body armor than the Leatt would be (he wears Lacrosse shoulder pads, which provide as much or more protection as most kids bike body armor and cost $25, instead of $100+).

I also agree with chillinrdude, I do not notice when I ride with my leatt, I can't even feel it, what I do notice is when I forget to put it on.....I shrug my shoulders with the leatt on to readjust my helmet as needed, it's become more of a habit than a necessity now that I have a very good fitting helmet, but with out the brace I obviously can't do that and it feels so damn weird.

 

[Gallain]

I have the Leatt DBX 5.5 only times I notice the brace is when I crash and then it's in a good way. Did a massive crash this summer (worst in a couple of years) did get some bruising on my sternum and some minor bruising on my shoulder from the brace. My Giro Remedy CF helmet cracked and I got a concussion. Wouldn't want to do that crash without the brace... Can't really see a reason not to wear one.

 

[demo 9]

I feel naked without mine, i had to take a run last summer when i forgot it at the bottom of the lift, even though i was just chilling down a green trail, it was kinda "scary". FYI, i do not run the expensive leatt, only the original cheap one.

Now that being said, I have fallen with it a few times, only one of which i noticed it actively "helping" but I cant see how it could hurt, and there is not much downside with the exception of your wallet.

Struck a pedal crossing an off camber ski crossing, ejected OTB, felt my helmet smush into the brace and sort of "lock" until i flipped over and tumbled down the hill. Far from what some people here have been through but i saw how it worked.

 

[Harry BarnOwl]

Thought I'd give an update. It's been 6 weeks now and the docs have removed my brace and I've been given pretty much a clean bill of health. I've still got a bit of numbness in my index finger on my left hand but it's going away slowly. Even if it doesn't it's nothing I couldn't live with.

On the leatt/neck brace front, I found a really interesting article from an mx magazine: http://www.dirtrider.com/features/the-neck-brace-should-you-wear-one/

I'm now of the opinion that if there is a risk of them doing more harm than good, it's minimal in comparison to the chance of them actually making a difference for the better. The report of a perceivable decrease in spinal injuries in that article is also encouraging.

Thanks again everyone for all the advice.

 

[HardtailHack]

I'm glad everyone in this thread has escaped life in a wheelchair following their OTB crashes.

Having worked in spinal cord rehab with many clients, some of whom became injured while riding bmx or mountain bikes, I told myself that I would do whatever I could to minimize the risk of acquiring an SCI myself. There are no guarantees, but the up front cost of a device is nothing compared to the cost of 24 hour assisted care, rehab sessions, special medical attention, and most unfortunate--the toll it takes on the family of the individual who has the injury.

A buddy and I have both "used our Leatts", his last off resulting in a fractured clavicle which required internal fixation to mend. Was this caused by the Leatt? Possibly yes, possibly no (I don't see how Leatt blames broken clavicles on maladjusted braces--to resist a large hyper-flexion force, the load HAS to go somewhere).

All that being said, the last two riders/friends of mine who had cervical-level SCIs were pro/semi-pro nationals contenders in DH who attained their injuries riding XC with open-face helmets.

Would a spine protector have helped any of the clients you have seen? I have always wondered if people ever get direct rock hits to the spine or hitting a tree etc and damage it that way.

My neck makes a bit of noise when I turn my head from a silly crash, a Leatt probably would have helped.

 

[Electric_City]

I bought an Alpinestars one for the reason that they explained theirs as a way to help with a compression impact also. They supply spacers that sit on your traps and can be removed or added to space between your brace and helmet properly. They recommend 1" between the two.

I bought mine immediately after Tara Llanes had her wreck that left her paralyzed from the waist down. Her wreck didn't seem that atrocious, like Sam Hills was imo. Unfortunately, she won't ride again.

I'm not a brand guy. I'm not trying to sell A-stars or Leatt, so read up on the several companies and see what one fits your needs and body/helmet best.

I've seen a young guy wearing a Leatt and he had a really long neck. There was about 4-5" of space between the bottom of the helmet and the brace. I don't know if he would have any better chance of preventing a neck or spinal injury in his case.

I'm on the NSP and have seen 2 spinal injuries. One was a 60 year old guy with 40 years experience on skis. He goes out West frequently, skis Europe, Canada and Chile. First run of the day on a fresh groomer with his best friend- Our patrol director, Howie. Howie sees his buddy carving nicely and then just lay it down. Howie approached and the guy looked ready to cry. He said he couldn't feel his legs. Nothing could have prevented this. In his case it was T9 I believe.

I read a couple post in here that say they injured thoracic and lumbar vertebrae and wonder if a "neck" brace would have helped. We'll never know I guess, but these are made to protect the C-spine mainly, which control the nervous system more or less.

Hopefully this helps someone. EC

 

[Harry BarnOwl]

I bought an Alpinestars one for the reason that they explained theirs as a way to help with a compression impact also. They supply spacers that sit on your traps and can be removed or added to space between your brace and helmet properly. They recommend 1" between the two.

I bought mine immediately after Tara Llanes had her wreck that left her paralyzed from the waist down. Her wreck didn't seem that atrocious, like Sam Hills was imo. Unfortunately, she won't ride again.

I'm not a brand guy. I'm not trying to sell A-stars or Leatt, so read up on the several companies and see what one fits your needs and body/helmet best.

I've seen a young guy wearing a Leatt and he had a really long neck. There was about 4-5" of space between the bottom of the helmet and the brace. I don't know if he would have any better chance of preventing a neck or spinal injury in his case.

I'm on the NSP and have seen 2 spinal injuries. One was a 60 year old guy with 40 years experience on skis. He goes out West frequently, skis Europe, Canada and Chile. First run of the day on a fresh groomer with his best friend- Our patrol director, Howie. Howie sees his buddy carving nicely and then just lay it down. Howie approached and the guy looked ready to cry. He said he couldn't feel his legs. Nothing could have prevented this. In his case it was T9 I believe.

I read a couple post in here that say they injured thoracic and lumbar vertebrae and wonder if a "neck" brace would have helped. We'll never know I guess, but these are made to protect the C-spine mainly, which control the nervous system more or less.

Hopefully this helps someone. EC

From how I understand it, no brace will prevent damage from a pure compression injury (i.e. pure axial loading on the spine), although a brace may limit the damage by an unknown amount. The research done by leatt suggests that in the majority of c-spine injuries there is a combination of axial loading and an extreme bending of the neck i.e. hyperflexion/extension. In my case, the vast majority of the damage was from the hyperflexion, with very little compression involved.

The design of the braces are such that they will limit damage from hyperflexion/extension far more than pure compression, although as stated above there's little you could do about compression anyway. To that end, I'm not sure it matters if you have a 4-5" gap between your helmet and the brace, as it's about that extra 10% (or however much) of movement that is going to do the damage. As long as the helmet bottoms out on the brace before you go over the limit of movement, surely it should still perform as it was designed? I definitely take your point though, and I hope that we see the technology come on in the future so that it becomes more of an exact science.