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Stan's ZTR Flow wheelset

Tootrikky

Monkey
Jul 31, 2003
772
0
Mount Vernon
i normally grease the nipples and the threads, but this time round they went on dry. :( some lbs hacks put it together as i was in a rush this time, really starting to regret it.

some people say yay, some people say nay to greasing the threads. i tried it on my last wheel build, hadleys - 823s - dt spokes and alu nipples. spent a whole day building those up, really high tension. i subsequently rounded most of the nipples off trying to true it slightly after a month, i gave up after that coz the mud must have seized everything up. didn't matter they stayed true and in tension for the next 3 years. couldn't be happier!

the spokes in the rear are lower than 100 for sure, dont need a tension meter to tell me that. looks like i might have to rebuild my wheels then.

was anyone anal enough to take the edge off the inside of holes in the rim with a de burring tool? a slight chamfer there might help the nipple sit better. i did notice when i was truing them, the nipples aren't in line with the spokes. probably because the hole is quite tight, and forces the spoke to bend slightly just after the nipple. made using a four sided spoke wrench a bitch!
There is no question here. A non lubricated threaded fastener will bind earlier than a lubricated on. According to some stats I read in a recent article of Machine Design, up to 30% of the torque in a dry/non-lubed application vs a lubed on will be converted in to a twisting force rather than a clamping/tensile force. Since the strength of a wheel is highly dependent on spoke tension, well you can connect the dots.......
 

monkeyfcuker

Monkey
May 26, 2008
912
8
UK, Carlisle
The reason CRC don't have stock is simply 'cos Hope have non. Should be back in stock with Hope mid May, apparently.

I've been using Hope built wheels for a while now (sp-am4's on Flows) the front has held up perfect, only the very slightest turn on a spoke wrench and I do mean slight, like less than a quarter turn just to even the tension out.

The rear one is pretty much on it's last legs, only a couple on dents which is really impressive but I put a little flat spot in it last week off of a drop into a rock garden, I hooked up on a rock and knew I'd done it straight away. The rim started cracking slightly round the "eyelets", I ran it for the rest of the day without bothering to tighten the now seriously loose spokes, few more cracks developed but it's still in an alrightish state.

Tightened up the spokes yesterday and ran it again on a faster track with no rocks and had zero problems, think I'll just keep running it 'till the spokes pop out or it snaps in half just to see how lon it lasts!

Overall these rims are super impressive, they have stayed dent free way better than I expected and the drop where I flat spotted has claimed a 721 in exactly the same way.
 

StunZeeD

Monkey
Feb 6, 2007
381
0
PNW
just to clarify do you need to run stans juice with these rims? Also can you run non-UST tires or do they have to be UST?
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
You can run them without sealant with a UST tire, no problem. I always put sealant in anyways to help seal things up in case of a burp or a thorn etc. Currently I am running non UST, non tubeless specialized tires - but I am running them tubeless. Absolutely no problems.
 

jon-boy

Monkey
May 26, 2004
799
0
Vancouver BC
I have an order in with CRC for the Hope/Flow combo when they come in stock again. It's too good a deal to ignore right now. I'm going to run them on my AM bike, though that bike does everything from rides on the North Shore to epics in Squamish to the occasional Super D/enduro race. So they get a good pounding. I haven't thought about running them tubeless yet... maybe I'll give that a try again.

Fraser, any thoughts on a good tire that can be run tubeless and work on the northshore? In other words has a stiff enough sidewall?
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
I have an order in with CRC for the Hope/Flow combo when they come in stock again. It's too good a deal to ignore right now. I'm going to run them on my AM bike, though that bike does everything from rides on the North Shore to epics in Squamish to the occasional Super D/enduro race. So they get a good pounding. I haven't thought about running them tubeless yet... maybe I'll give that a try again.

Fraser, any thoughts on a good tire that can be run tubeless and work on the northshore? In other words has a stiff enough sidewall?
I've been running these specialized tires for over a year now, and they are the only thing I have run out here. A few friends have had good success with some new soft compound bontragers and the usual non ust minions are always a great choice.
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
Whats the weight of the riders riding these for DH and how often are the hoops being changed???

Do they dent or crack upon smashing into a rock or casing a landing???

Id read but this thread is pretty long and Transcend is already right here answering things... Plus has direct knowledge of these for a extended period of time.....
 

DIRTWRKS

Monkey
Aug 13, 2003
615
0
Canada EH !
Here are some weights on those wheelsets fiited with Hope Pro-2 hubs.

Front 850 grams Rear 975 grams


These rims don''t crack that easily but tend to dent and bend instead when hit really hard. Niced thing is they do not leak even after the edges of the rim are dented or folded in.

Also by far the easiest UST rim to inflate, just regular floor pump is all that was needed with every tire I have tried
 

redride

Monkey
Sep 23, 2007
215
0
Kuala Lumpur
Whats the weight of the riders riding these for DH and how often are the hoops being changed???

Do they dent or crack upon smashing into a rock or casing a landing???

Id read but this thread is pretty long and Transcend is already right here answering things... Plus has direct knowledge of these for a extended period of time.....
I'm 65kgs and I love em. just changed the rear due to dent after a year of racing. not crazy but its been good to me. riding rock gardens now. seems ok...

if u r rough, than this may not be for you... i said may. so far, its taken the abuse from me. mind u im no WC rider.
 

StunZeeD

Monkey
Feb 6, 2007
381
0
PNW
anyone know if you can use alloy nipples to build this set up and still have it work UST without stans inside or do I need to use the brass longer 16mm nipples ?
 

frango

Turbo Monkey
Jun 13, 2007
1,454
5
anyone know if you can use alloy nipples to build this set up and still have it work UST without stans inside or do I need to use the brass longer 16mm nipples ?
I would like to know that, too... Actually, I would like to know, if You can use non-UST tires w/o sealant on Flows?
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,790
5,614
Ottawa, Canada
I would like to know that, too... Actually, I would like to know, if You can use non-UST tires w/o sealant on Flows?
I did that on my trail bike. Ran 2.3 Nevegals. Couldn't stop flatting for some reason. Like at least once a ride. THat precipitated my adoption of tubeless (High Roller rear and Albert Front), and now I'm going on two seasons with only one flat (I landed a small drop crooked and unseated the tire. I was able to put it back on by hand and re-seal it with my hand pump - easy peasy).
 

DIRTWRKS

Monkey
Aug 13, 2003
615
0
Canada EH !
anyone know if you can use alloy nipples to build this set up and still have it work UST without stans inside or do I need to use the brass longer 16mm nipples ?
You can use any nipples you like the sealing on this rim is achieved by the use of a special yellow rim strip tape unlike say something like an Mavic 823 which has a solid inner wall. This tape is available from Stans and will need to be replaced should you need to rebuild your wheel etc.
 

frorider

Monkey
Jul 21, 2004
971
20
cali
If they ever come back in stock, you could have a pair for about 350$ at CRC
i've bought several flow/hope/DT comp wheelsets from an experienced wheelbuilder in CA for 410-430 bucks depending on options. PM me if you want his email. super high quality build, whatever color hubs you want (that's usually not the case w/ CRC). but takes 3 weeks to get 'em.

edit to add: actually i usually upgrade to a hadley rear hub, which bumps the price over 500.

edit to add: a while back (1+ yrs ) i knew a couple of guys who'd had mediocre wheel builds direct from Stan's. unevenly tensioned spokes etc.
 
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frango

Turbo Monkey
Jun 13, 2007
1,454
5
I did that on my trail bike. Ran 2.3 Nevegals. Couldn't stop flatting for some reason. Like at least once a ride. THat precipitated my adoption of tubeless (High Roller rear and Albert Front), and now I'm going on two seasons with only one flat (I landed a small drop crooked and unseated the tire. I was able to put it back on by hand and re-seal it with my hand pump - easy peasy).
What kind of strip did You use? Stan's? Or any other?

You can use any nipples you like the sealing on this rim is achieved by the use of a special yellow rim strip tape unlike say something like an Mavic 823 which has a solid inner wall. This tape is available from Stans and will need to be replaced should you need to rebuild your wheel etc.
You mean this? http://www.notubes.com/tubeless_system.php?cPath=21_61
Shall I use one of these http://www.notubes.com/tubeless_system.php?cPath=21_59 to make everything air tight?
 
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marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,774
532
the tape makes the rim airtight, but if you are heavy and ride/corner hard the rim strip really helps to keep the tire on. i am 200+ and rip tires off the rip without the rim strip. it helps hold the tire on much better.
 

frango

Turbo Monkey
Jun 13, 2007
1,454
5
No, I am light (155lbs geared) and I don't ride/corner hard, usually.
What about using tape and strip on rims other than ZTRs?
 

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,774
532
it sorta depends on the rim. azonic outlaws & transition revolutions like to use the rim strip for example. dt 5.1d are generally fine w/ tape.
 

DIRTWRKS

Monkey
Aug 13, 2003
615
0
Canada EH !

Christiaan

Monkey
Feb 27, 2004
525
0
Weesp, The Netherlands
my front rim lasted 1 day of riding, well, more like 3 runs to be exact...........

must have hit a rock or something, dented in a few mm, and is def not round anymore. I am 70kg so not heavy, and was running more pressure then I used to on my EX823 rims..... bad luck I guess
 

PepperJester

Monkey
Jul 9, 2004
798
19
Wolfville NS
Seeing as this thread is back up, I'll send in an update on my wheels. I'm over a year on mine now, only broke one spoke, both still seal up tubeless with ease... with a floor pump. My back has a good flat spot in it from cashing a double jump pretty fierce while I was in BC this winter but has not been getting any worse.
 

Kntr

Turbo Monkey
Jan 25, 2003
7,526
21
Montana
Ok, I have put tubeless off long enough. Im going to give it a shot.

I dont want to run a sealant... Will the Flows work with Minion USTs and no sealant?
 

zdubyadubya

Turbo Monkey
Apr 13, 2008
1,273
96
Ellicott City, MD
Are there any UST rims that work without sealant in UST tires?
thats the whole point of ust as far as i understand it. if you pair a ust tire with ust rim, no need for sealant

i have had good luck with 823/minion for dh and 819 with any specialized 2bliss tire (i like eskar ft and captain control rear) for all mountain