steel vs ti
- Thread starter armada
- Start date
And steel springs can save you significant amount of money 
Riding a steel spring, I was wondering if there's also another advantage to ride a Ti spring.
Talked to a guy at the LBS and he said, his bike felt much smoother after throwing a Ti on his bike. Since I'm not the person that beliefs everything, I told me some questions. Is that only a placebo effect, or is there something magic on Ti springs?
Has it something to do with the different elasticity modulus than steel?
Talked to a guy at the LBS and he said, his bike felt much smoother after throwing a Ti on his bike. Since I'm not the person that beliefs everything, I told me some questions. Is that only a placebo effect, or is there something magic on Ti springs?
Has it something to do with the different elasticity modulus than steel?
Modulus is also independent of material in a way (it varies between materials but is measured with the same method). So take two same thickness springs and ti will be softer so your spring rating will also go down. Ti springs have a different geometry to make up for the different material properties so the static stiffness is the same.
Dynamic feel? I am sure there is a difference, they are different materials and have different weights. Can a rider actually tell? That's definitely up for debate.
The modulus of elasticity is just a measurement of how much force it takes to strain a material. 2 springs of equal load rating will not react very differently in dynamic loading. Ti may have a longer service life, but I believe any tangible performance difference would probably be due to some shock work he had done while it was off the bike.
I've heard of this before, having a 450 ti spring "feel" softer than a 450 steel spring on the same shock. Alwasy been curious as to why. I felt it as well, rode the bike with both springs. It does feel WAY softer, but it just feels like you've opened up the LSC and soaks HSC better...
dont forget to factor in.. most people ride on cheap stock steel springs, which can vary up to 10% in actual rating..
so your 450 spring on a cheap steel spring can easily be a 405 or a 495 lbs one.
where as a expensive spring TI or steel, will usually be much closer to the lbs shown.
usually a cheap steel will be over the lbs it is supposed to be.
thus following that logic, a TI will feel softer
also factor in shock quality, my vivid 5.1 is absolute crap vs my BOS stoy., big hits, they are the same, but with the same spring on(i tested taking the spring off the vivid and slapped it on the stoy), they are worlds apart in small bump control.
so your 450 spring on a cheap steel spring can easily be a 405 or a 495 lbs one.
where as a expensive spring TI or steel, will usually be much closer to the lbs shown.
usually a cheap steel will be over the lbs it is supposed to be.
thus following that logic, a TI will feel softer
also factor in shock quality, my vivid 5.1 is absolute crap vs my BOS stoy., big hits, they are the same, but with the same spring on(i tested taking the spring off the vivid and slapped it on the stoy), they are worlds apart in small bump control.
yeah, I tested it on the same bike, same shock. I think you hit the nail about the cheap Steel springs! Someone on here posted a tested about steel springs and theyre real LBS and they were all off, at most though by 15 LBS, which would still make a difference.
this is way more likely than any actual effect of spring material.
i just slappe a 450 ti on the sx and the bike is on par with the 400steel as far as sag and its more suple (smooth).
not palcebo either, its a side by side comparison. fox steel 400# vs rcs ti 450# and without a doubt the ti feels more linear.
That was also my thought. Obviously the damper itself makes the difference. Seems like those guys want to justify the extra money for the ti spring. "It's not only the weight, it's the ride quality." To me Ti springs definitely have the right to exist. If someone wants to lighten his ride up, why not? The "ride quality" point is just silly in my eyes.
That sounds like you got a quality spring with the right spring rate for you.
I don't think that the Ti vs. spring makes the difference.But I'll try that defintely sometime!
yes but along with the weight savings on the bike from ti your wallet is also significantly lighter. This adds up to an even more impressive weight saving due to your ability to buy less beer.And steel springs can save you significant amount of money
i have had ti side by side with various springs including the avys. craigs rcs vs his steel ones the one i compared is a fox spring and the ti is off a double barrel from a local guy. i have the ti preloaded a bit more than the steel and in every case where i have gone from steel to ti there is a reason i keep doing so aside of weight.
the one i have on the sx was a trade to a guy so im not into it $. what i traded was a takeoff so im already ahead $ as it is.
(i will agree there is alot of placebo effect with stuff to justify cost on items)
the one i have on the sx was a trade to a guy so im not into it $. what i traded was a takeoff so im already ahead $ as it is.
(i will agree there is alot of placebo effect with stuff to justify cost on items)
Hooke's law states that Force=-kx where k is the spring constant (or rate) and x in this case is would be the travel. Since the spring constant is probably identical between ti and steel springs, wouldn't any difference in performance be due to either better manufacturing tolerances in the spring or maybe a perceived difference in the force it takes to initiate suspension movement (small bumps). Since the elasticity modulus is a ratio of stress/strain that would better describe the springs life than performance at any one time right?
Less matter in the titanium atoms. Elementally it is less dense.
besides being lighter and longer lasting, the ti spring on my bike is more of a 'bling' factor then anything
titanium springs has a lower spring ratio allmoast half as the steel springs! so if you have a 400 lbs spring in a steeel and a 400 ti spring if you compress both 1" then the steel spring will be much stiffer then the titanium one.... so this is why you need a bit harder for the titanium springs!
sounds like troll science...
I guess You meant Young's module not "spring ratio"... and 400lbs/in ti spring has exactly the same rate as a steel 400lbs/in spring
Very cool link, the springs are more accurate than I expected.
Also, I went from a steel to a ti on my Supreme DH last year. I couldn't tell a difference. I got the spring for $100 and it seemed like a good weight savings.
I now have a Demo 8, I should swap my old steel one on there for a run, I bet I can't tell.
It matches the bike, which will make it faster obviously.
:insert favorite facepalm:
dude. think about what you said. you swapped a 400lb spring for a 350. doesn't matter if its Ti, steel, or unobfvckintanium, of course its going to feel "softer". I'm the last person to trot their credentials onto an internet forum but I have a PhD in titanium metallurgical engineering. if you have two springs of identical spring-rate there will be NO DIFFERENCE in their progressive or linear behavior.clearly
rice,sry for my experienceS of life.Your always right
but those are his life experiences
Titanium metalerdergicabal (sp) engineering ?....Really?.....C'mon ,I dont even think that's a real thing.
and a doctor at that.....You overshot that one.You be more believable if you said you read a blacksmithing book once.
and a doctor at that.....You overshot that one.You be more believable if you said you read a blacksmithing book once.
You'll get more chicks with a Ti spring
Titanium metalerdergicabal (sp) engineering ?....Really?.....C'mon ,I dont even think that's a real thing.
and a doctor at that.....You overshot that one.You be more believable if you said you read a blacksmithing book once.
Ya, I know. I get that alot. But for anyone who is interested I can PM links to some of the stuff I have done. One of the reasons I love RM is there is alot of people on here who really know their stuff and have really cool backgrounds and experience. I mean there is a member of an F1 crew on here for cryin out loud... thats frikin sweet.to bad you assumed and never knew I've owned plural bikes and know a 400 steel vs a 400 ti ti is softer and steelbut those are his life experiences
Noticed I never mentionned anything about my 350 being obviously softer all I said is more preload and its on the money were I wanted.
Yall assumed.
thanks 4 hating.
p.s dont be saour cause you can't figure out the angleset
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