Suck it, unions!! (part 2326)
- Thread starter MMike
- Start date
Not that I give a rat's ass about this particular situation, but do you two honestly believe this guy is "volunteering" to clean up parks in the city because dirty spaces offend him?
Not in the slightest, but if he can prove that a more capable job can be done for less, why should the city pay more? Clearly there are jobs available within this industry if he is able to run a private business within the space.
I agree that jobs such as yours need to be govt run, because the ability and incentive for a company to skew data is great. But with a job cleaning the streets and parks? That's non-skilled labor. Why should cities be paying a premium for non-skilled labor?
Im not saying a city should prefer public employees vs. private ones in cases like these at all; however, this is a good example of where a union does come in handy in trying to protect its employees.
^^^^^^Oh yeah, and police, firefighters or jailhouse guards never need to fight for better working conditions... 
As for the original article, are you saying that for-profit companies have never offered a loss-leading product in order to put competitors out of business? Given out freebies so that they can hopefully garner enough goodwill/business that then they can a) put their competition out of business and then b) jack their prices up?
The only other possibility is that you actually believe that for-profit corporations just do things "out of the goodness of their own heart"...
As for the original article, are you saying that for-profit companies have never offered a loss-leading product in order to put competitors out of business? Given out freebies so that they can hopefully garner enough goodwill/business that then they can a) put their competition out of business and then b) jack their prices up?
The only other possibility is that you actually believe that for-profit corporations just do things "out of the goodness of their own heart"...
Not saying that. However if you remove one 'company' that has excessive political leverage from the equation, the market opens for other businesses to compete. Public unions are monopolies and opening that market place up to competition almost always reduces consumer expense.
Have you ever been a union member? Have you ever worked as anything other than a handler and siphoner-off of other people's money? If not, then consider STFUing, plz.
What I find even more ironic is the guy with socialized health care starting the anti-union threads.
How so? Tax money goes to fund socialized medicine. How is that even remotely related to unions? My ability to hold onto my job, and salary increases are based on my performance, and not because of my seniority or arbitrary union rules.What I find even more ironic is the guy with socialized health care starting the anti-union threads.
I have never been part of a union. I have happily crossed picket lines. And my dad on two separate occasions was a scab during Air Canada strikes. One as a baggage handler and the other as a flight attendant. We even had a picket line form in our driveway because of it. It was short lived.
I suppose the idea is that by being employed, you are pretty much guaranteed decent healthcare. That's not always the case in the states, and unions often play a part in securing such benefits.
Yes I did at UPS during college. The dues were high, I HAD to join to work there, and I found a job paying more (once dues were factored in) working in less manual labor job.
Please explain to me why unions are needed for public employees though. I am fully in support of unions for high risk jobs: Iron Workers, Miners, etc. What benefit do I, as a person having my dollars siphoned off (see taxes)to pay these workers, receive from these individuals?
sounds like the people we vote for every 2/4/6 years....
my younger brother loaded trucks at UPS......some of the dumbest fvcking drivers in the world.
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That about sums it up.
Which is also the case for non-union workers in the US too, n'est-ce pas?
Yes, because a part-time job in college is the same thing as a full time job that pays well enough to support a family and has things like "health care," "vacations," and "weekends."
Not at all.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2014824566_charleston21.html
incredible
I'm pretty sure unions "retaliate" against mgmt all the time.
incredible
I'm pretty sure unions "retaliate" against mgmt all the time.
UPS generally frowns upon full time workers.
I laughed to myself thinking of a hypothetical scenario where a cop, firefighter or corrections officer would be complaining about working conditions.^^^^^^Oh yeah, and police, firefighters or jailhouse guards never need to fight for better working conditions...
It would sound something like, "we need less violent criminals" , "we need nicer burning buildings", and "we need more pleasant inmates".
But in all seriousness, my old man was on the FDNY for 22 years and he has nothing but great disdain for the union, more so for the incompetent and greatly uneducated people that were elected as the union's leader when he was on the job.
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I was a "brother" of the United Steelworkers for a summer. I made a fortune that summer. I was a coop student and was earning more than MMike as an engineer if I recall correctly...heh.
We had a big blast set to go that needed to be set off before the rains came. So happened that about a 2 crew-days' work were required to get it done. The Super went around trying to set up the crew and all the workers refused to work the holiday weekend. He asked me and I jumped at the chance. I earned doubletime and a half for 2 days.
Some azzhole "brother" filed a grievance against me for "stealing" the hours he refused.
Idiots.
We had a big blast set to go that needed to be set off before the rains came. So happened that about a 2 crew-days' work were required to get it done. The Super went around trying to set up the crew and all the workers refused to work the holiday weekend. He asked me and I jumped at the chance. I earned doubletime and a half for 2 days.
Some azzhole "brother" filed a grievance against me for "stealing" the hours he refused.
Idiots.
So, I'm assuming he sends back that pension check every month?
Ask him what idiots kept electing those leaders...
Contributing money to an incompetent bureaucracy for 22 years while performing a very hazardous (and necessary) job to the best of your abilities does not necessarily equal seppuku during retirement.
Because the profit motives of a corporation are going to cost more than the premium for the non-skilled work, And if you had any basic understanding of how economics works you would know that more money at the bottom goes through the system more times and actually does more good.
Re read some history books and you might understand what unions have done for us, unions on the GI bill created the middle class (yep, socialist programs) and destroying them can and is destroying the middle class.
Like clockwork, and now he needs a place to live. I'm assuming you'll open up your home.
No can do, have to keep the spare bedroom in case my parents end up there. My dad's pension fund was dissolved in the mid 1990s since it was "overfunded", and so his company cashed it out, handed him a check for $8k (after working there for 25+ years), and told him he was on his own to figure out how to save up enough money for retirement in the following 10 years. Thank god my mother still has a fully funded pension, but that's only because of that evil public union that I keep hearing about. If we could have gotten rid of that I'm sure they would do the same thing to her pension as my dad's company did to his.
So if your dad hates unions but loves his monthly pension check, tell him he could have ended up like 90%+ of the (non-union) private sector who got to watch their "retirement plans" go up in smoke.
by 'electing', do you mean by secret ballot (how most of us think about it), or where the vote is made known, which is a tool of intimidation, like my fat black cock
yeah, but going rate for watersports is also beholden to market forces. you going to subsidize my various fetishes just to get board members involved?
There are people out there that actually do the work to earn their "monthly check" as you so casually put it. If you were to spread your career out in Flatbush, Spanish Harlem, but mostly in the South Bronx I'd bet you would say you earned your pensions too.
On top of this my dad also employed 3-4 guys year round on the side as a contractor. So, there was no way he could have ended up like those 90%. Due to the simple fact that he wasn't relying on 1 revenue stream for the rest of his life.
http://www.gs.columbia.edu/retired-fdny-firefighter-reignites-his-passion-2008-06-06
i'm the sexy mo-fo on the far right
Who said anything about "earning" their pension? Of course they've earned it because it's considered deferred compensation. Corporations don't care. State governments don't care. If they could cash it out and take the money they would (and have) do it in a heartbeat. The only thing that is protecting most people (currently working) with pensions these days is the fact that their employer has a contract with their union to provide it. It's why most private, non-union workers these days *don't* have a pension. They were cashed out years ago, with some of the money going into annuities to provide benefits for those who had already retired, some of the money going to employees (like my father), and the VAST MAJORITY of the money going to the owners of the company.
I'm glad that he has found other ways to employ himself and to take up his time during his retirement. I also think that it's hypocritical that he hates the very entity that protected his pension (among other things) while he was working to ensure that it was there for his retirement... But then again, Americans seems to be great at voting against their own self-interest so I shouldn't be surprised.
for this thread, i'll come over to the dark side:
American Airlines flight attendants protest bosses' executive bonuses at JFK airport
American Airlines flight attendants protest bosses' executive bonuses at JFK airport
i would think the union involved here would be a 'good union'
Hey JBP,
I'm still wait for a response to this one... I know it has been three days and all, but you should have had time to write something up by now.
don't fvck with methusalah....
Are you really trying to claim that no public workers have high-risk jobs?
You guys are aware of the existence of labour laws and safety standards right? They may have come from unions, waaaaaaaaaaay back in the day. But I believe the safety regulatory infrastructure is fairly well established. Unions had there place to "cure" the industrial revolution. But that time has passed. They accomplished that goal. Well done. Time to move on. All unions do now is claw for unaffordable perks that they don't deserve in the first place.
Da Peach should elaborate on some of the episodes he experienced with his "brothers". The lazy ass union guy who was SO lazy while setting up a blasting pattern, he was rolling the det-cord down the hill so he didn't have to walk as far....or something along those lines. He could have blown himself and a few other people to kingdom come.
Bust the unions, and bust 'em good.
Da Peach should elaborate on some of the episodes he experienced with his "brothers". The lazy ass union guy who was SO lazy while setting up a blasting pattern, he was rolling the det-cord down the hill so he didn't have to walk as far....or something along those lines. He could have blown himself and a few other people to kingdom come.
Bust the unions, and bust 'em good.
That they are going to go the store and actually spend that money. It will then go through the system a few more times, potentially through your hands.
Or we can do the "trickle down" method and write the financial industry a trillion dollar welfare check that we will see none of.
All this info is strait out of my econ 191 book too, it's pretty basic stuff.
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Flip that coin over, and you have a corporation. Odd that...
And what about the money taken out of the paychecks of those who are not in the unions? What would happen if they could put their money into the system? What makes it right for their money to be taken to allow others to put it into play?
Your logic makes sense if you take from the upper 1%. It does not make sense when coming from the mid and lower income classes.
I like the fact that unions recognize how much harder driving a bus is on a Sunday than it is on a Tuesday. Premium pay helps transit authorities attract drivers with valuable Sunday driving skills; this increases weekend traffic safety.