[SylentK]

During the season both a teammate and I had rear derailleur cable issues on our then new Sundays. We were both using Shimano XT everything. The cable and housing always seemed to get jacked up. At first we thought we were getting the cable caught on something, or we bashed the derailleur on something, causing our woes. We'd replace the cable and housing, check the derailleur alignment and it would work great for a week, then get jacked up again. This was repeated for half the season.

My teammate finally got fed up and went with all SRAM. As the other teammates running SRAM on their Sundays had none of these issues. His shifting woes ended. I did not want to go that route as I have Shimano on all of my bikes and do not want to have to carry spare SRAM and Shimano parts (or maybe it’s because of my love for Shimano…. we won’t talk about that)...so I looked for another answer.

After doing some experimentation with the der cable routing and inspecting the housing and cable after the shifting woes starting to take affect. It looked as though the cable housing jacket/cover kept getting pulled down, exposing the steel housing "fibers". This in return lengthened the entire cable, this must have been the culprit affecting my shifting in negative ways. I deducted that something with how the routing goes down by the DW link and all the "monkey motion" with the plastic tube and the design of the Shimano derailleur (vs. SRAM der) all must be doing something bad to the cable housing. Reflecting on it now, it probably has more to do with the design of the Shimano mech than anything else.

So below are pics of what my solution was. I am happy to report that this setup has been shift-error free for several months and race weekends and is still on the original cable and housing. Shifting is smoother, easier, quicker and best of all more precise. :biggrin:

Does this mean every Sunday with Shimano is going to suck? Not by any means, this was just my experience, and thought I’d share it with you all. I’m sure Iron Horse and DW do NOT recommend this type of mod, but hey, it works and works well. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. I still love Shimano, just not as much.

 

[MorewoodKid]

NOKON cables... :biggrin: End of your woes!

 

[Yeti]

thanks, gonna keep that in mind, cause next year we re sellin IH at the shop....btw, funky straps!

 

[freakrock]

cheaper, lighter and easier to find.

 

[Jettj45]

Road Derailleur's all the way! I personally never use shimano because sram all just better products. But really, road derailleurs are ideal for Dh racing

 

[jvnixon]

NOKON cables... :biggrin: End of your woes!

Yea Nokon all the way :-D and it even comes in a variety of colors

 

[SylentK]

cheaper, lighter and easier to find.

Those bits look like parts from the old Shimano V-Brake system. What are they?

 

[SylentK]

Road Derailleur's all the way! I personally never use shimano because sram all just better products. But really, road derailleurs are ideal for Dh racing

Yeah, what's the word on those? Are they or are they not more prone to breaking than mtb der? That's the only reason I haven't made that switch yet. That and the cost of a new road cassette, too.

 

[SylentK]

Yea Nokon all the way :-D and it even comes in a variety of colors

Wow, that's two for Nokon. Should've done some more research...

Yeah, the colored nylon zips are kinda cool. I can't seem to find anymore, though.

 

[MorewoodKid]

Wow, that's two for Nokon. Should've done some more research...

Yeah, the colored nylon zips are kinda cool. I can't seem to find anymore, though.

You can get a really tight bend on the NOKON outer which definitely comes in handy when running Shimano on DH bikes with cable routing along the chain-stay. Make sure you're sitting when you check the pricing though, there stuff isn't cheap, but you won't be replacing it too much as you do with regular outer. There are a few advantages to it apart from the tighter bend too:

virtually zero cable compression- more responsive shifting
super slick lining- smooth shifting
bling- alu cable outer definitely has a bling factor

and... wait for it...

weight savings!! :biggrin:

Not the greatest web page, but check it out regardless:

http://www.nokon.com

 

[jvnixon]

I can't find any really good pictures of my bikes with it on but this one is ok

my xc bike w/black nokon:
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6089/dscn1552yj7.jpg

 

[kidwoo]

Those bits look like parts from the old Shimano V-Brake system. What are they?

Parts from an old v-brake system.

Makes a nice rigid bend to get the cable down to your derailleur.

 

[JRogers]

Yeah, what's the word on those? Are they or are they not more prone to breaking than mtb der? That's the only reason I haven't made that switch yet. That and the cost of a new road cassette, too.

You don't need a road cassette to run a road der. What gear combo are you running right now?

I have used a few road mechs on my DH bike (a few 105s and a Dura Ace) and all worked well. They don't seem to last any more or less time than others. I suggest 105 short cage...great performance for the price.

 

[dw]

The cable stock routing on the Sunday gives very little cable bending. Any issue that you have with shifting is NOT caused by cable routing. Your modification is definitely worse for shifting performance, as it forces the cable to bend significantly more, and more often. Just run a longer cable loop in back, or a rollamajig like you have done.

There are my suggestions.

Dave

 

[HenryTheHammer]

Had similar issues on my demo, used a rollamajig with the shimano gear until that went to crap then just went with SRAM. Not a single problem since changing. Sram > Shimano

 

[SylentK]

You don't need a road cassette to run a road der. What gear combo are you running right now?

I have used a few road mechs on my DH bike (a few 105s and a Dura Ace) and all worked well. They don't seem to last any more or less time than others. I suggest 105 short cage...great performance for the price.

I run the XT 11-32 cassette. I was always told you had to run a road cassette with a road derailer. Is that not true? I know a few folks who do the 105 thang, but I also know they buy like 3 at a time.

 

[SylentK]

The cable stock routing on the Sunday gives very little cable bending. Any issue that you have with shifting is NOT caused by cable routing. Your modification is definitely worse for shifting performance, as it forces the cable to bend significantly more, and more often. Just run a longer cable loop in back, or a rollamajig like you have done.

There are my suggestions.

Dave

Thanks for the words, Dave. I love the fact that you post here and comment on items/issues such as this. You don't see many people doing that in this industry or others for that matter.

With that said, I still stand by my post in regards to the shifting improvements. I will also add that I think running the rollamajig from the chainstay (the stock way) isn't as effective as running it from the seatstay (pictured) IMO. Although it can still be done, obviously.

Actually looking at the rollamajig instructions, maybe it is just as effective. Perhaps I'll give it a try....or do I dare go to the other Big "S"?

 

[dw]

I have run rollamajigs on a bunch of bikes before. It will work pretty nicely from the chainstay.

Thanks for the good words. I'm a bike person just like you.

Dave

 

[davep]

Another quick thought..
The only time that I have had problems like you are describing, I have had BAD cable ends. The plastic and some of the cheep metal ones deform over time (or just have a very big hole) and can allow the metal strand in your cable to get pushed out. Cheap cable housing might contribute as well

Try some good ends, and good brand name housing. Either the heavy duty brass ones that come with shimano cable or some of the better (brand name) aluminum ones. They seem to be made to closer tolerances and just beefier over all.

BTW I run all of my bikes with the cable on the chainstay..designed that way or not...it bends the cable less and does not change the length of the cable run as much, so the cable is not trying to compress when your suspension moves.

good luck!

 

[klunky]

its possibly caused by the spring/linkage munching your cable housing.
Try running a tube (like a camelback hose) over the cable outer, that worked for me

 

[kidwoo]

its possibly caused by the spring/linkage munching your cable housing.
Try running a tube (like a camelback hose) over the cable outer, that worked for me

acadian had a cool "how to" about doing something like that up here a while ago

 

[Nick]

(WTF did I say??)
I always used rollamajigs with my shimano deraileurs.

 

[Acadian]

acadian had a cool "how to" about doing something like that up here a while ago

you're thinking of the image I made explaining how to remove the rear shock?

but here is a pic that shows you know I run my cables:

 

[kidwoo]

Naw......on your old black on you showed the tubing you put over the shifter housing.

......maybe it was on pinkbike

I thought you put something up here.

 

[JRogers]

I run the XT 11-32 cassette. I was always told you had to run a road cassette with a road derailer. Is that not true? I know a few folks who do the 105 thang, but I also know they buy like 3 at a time.

All I can say is that I have run a short cage road mech with a mountain cassette and it has worked before. The published limits from Shimano are conservative and may be based on the optimal cassette size for shifting performance and wear...but most people will trash a derailer before it actually wears out from that.

 

[Acadian]

Naw......on your old black on you showed the tubing you put over the shifter housing.

......maybe it was on pinkbike

I thought you put something up here.

oh yeah...here it is:

 

[heikkihall]

I run 4mm housing which most people agree is less durable than 5mm. However, If I am going to run 4mm housing I will ONLY run Shimano SIS housing. I run it right through all of the intended cable mounts on my Sunday but I give alittle extra slack in the bend going into the derailleur. I also have one of the THE/ Iron Horse chainstay protectors with the platic tube underneath. I really have no issues at all when running XT shifters and derailleurs.

Make sure to file down the housing ends when you cut them so that they are flush and use aluminum or brass ferrules, never plastic.

 

[FastTimes]

Solutions to a problem that does not exist. Bike shifts great as is provided it is setup right.

 

[Morgan]

i had something similar happen, my cable housing would get pushed between the coils of the spring, and when the shock was compressed then the housing would get smashed by the spring which equaled hard and poor shifting, like in the picture above i zip tied the housing to the lower link and my shifting problems were solved.

 

[The Lazian]

you could take the bend in your cable out of your current mod by making up some moto-esque cable slides on the top tube with some more crazy colored zip ties. like on the 303

 

[sbabuser]

Solutions to a problem that does not exist. Bike shifts great as is provided it is setup right.

I've seen the issue with a few Sundays running Shim derailleurs, some of them stock. Maybe you oughta get down to the IH warehouse and show them how to assemble sht correctly. I'd say it's a combination of the cable routing and Shimano's excessive loop at the derailleur. Maybe if you'd have gone nuts w/ the cable ties past the shock it wouldn't have been an issue, SK.
On mine I swapped out the XT rear der straight out of the box for an X9.
Oh, and I'd bet that the rollamajig is lighter than a v-brake elbow. They are made of space age plastic, afterall.

 

[snowskilz]

i am also one of the 5 guys on the same team that had this issue. I switched to sram along with most others before the end of the season. It was almost as if the der was pulling apart the housing. i tried metal and better plastic cable ends and nothing worked.

granted i wouldnt trade my sunday in for any other bike it does get annoying to go through a new cable housing every few weeks

 

[frznnomad]

originally posted by silentk
Are they or are they not more prone to breaking than mtb der

okay i know its late and this is probly not an issue any more but here is a picture of my 105 on my sgs. the derrailure even outlasted my rear swingarm :biggrin:, but this 105 has lasted about a year on my dh bike which blows any xt i ever ran. i used to eat xt derrailures for breakfast then swiched to 105 and solved all problems.

 

[Carnaza]

i used to have the same problem... but i bought the rollamagic and all problems ended

see the picture--

 

[TheMontashu]

During the season both a teammate and I had rear derailleur cable issues on our then new Sundays. We were both using Shimano XT everything. The cable and housing always seemed to get jacked up. At first we thought we were getting the cable caught on something, or we bashed the derailleur on something, causing our woes. We'd replace the cable and housing, check the derailleur alignment and it would work great for a week, then get jacked up again. This was repeated for half the season.

My teammate finally got fed up and went with all SRAM. As the other teammates running SRAM on their Sundays had none of these issues. His shifting woes ended. I did not want to go that route as I have Shimano on all of my bikes and do not want to have to carry spare SRAM and Shimano parts (or maybe it’s because of my love for Shimano…. we won’t talk about that)...so I looked for another answer.

After doing some experimentation with the der cable routing and inspecting the housing and cable after the shifting woes starting to take affect. It looked as though the cable housing jacket/cover kept getting pulled down, exposing the steel housing "fibers". This in return lengthened the entire cable, this must have been the culprit affecting my shifting in negative ways. I deducted that something with how the routing goes down by the DW link and all the "monkey motion" with the plastic tube and the design of the Shimano derailleur (vs. SRAM der) all must be doing something bad to the cable housing. Reflecting on it now, it probably has more to do with the design of the Shimano mech than anything else.

So below are pics of what my solution was. I am happy to report that this setup has been shift-error free for several months and race weekends and is still on the original cable and housing. Shifting is smoother, easier, quicker and best of all more precise. :biggrin:

Does this mean every Sunday with Shimano is going to suck? Not by any means, this was just my experience, and thought I’d share it with you all. I’m sure Iron Horse and DW do NOT recommend this type of mod, but hey, it works and works well. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. I still love Shimano, just not as much.

The exposed steel fibers are normal, it happens on all bikes with all indexed shifting. It is simple the plastic contracting, just cut off the wires that are coming out