All right - trot out the data. How many "severe cyclonic events" has Europe seen and what sort of wind, size, and duration are we talking about?PonySoldier said:
The Death of a City...
- Thread starter N8 v2.0
- Start date
anybody heard the song "new orleans is sinking" by the tragicly hip? just thought of the coincidence, kinda ironic and funny at the same time, not to be insensitive tho...
I cannot honestly say how many, but some European countries like Greece, build houses in 100% concrete, like bunkers, for quake reasons, now these houses can last Cat5 or anything.SkaredShtles said:
Problem is, that, people died in NO, people still suffer there, and i really hope the best for them. Honestly it is not a matter of who has seen a cat5 or not. I just wish i could be there to help (preferably to help against looters).
Isnt it about time to do something about the planet? Maybe those environmentalists are right after all (not the anti-mtb ones).
Anyhow , my condolences to every American for what has happened.
Yannis
Most European gov's are wondering why it takes so long to get the rescue operations rolling ?
Isn't there some kind of -worst case scenario- for disasters likes this ?
3 days later and all we see on the news is N.O. people complaining that they see a lot of helicopters and boots in the air and absolutely NO help on the ground and that the thugs rule the streets and shoot at whatever they see as a threat.
It's also weird that Bush told the international press that the US didn't 'need' any foreign help....and 6 hours later he said that 'all' help is welcome.
Kind of disturbing to see the US, a well organized and rich country in this situation.
Isn't there some kind of -worst case scenario- for disasters likes this ?
3 days later and all we see on the news is N.O. people complaining that they see a lot of helicopters and boots in the air and absolutely NO help on the ground and that the thugs rule the streets and shoot at whatever they see as a threat.
It's also weird that Bush told the international press that the US didn't 'need' any foreign help....and 6 hours later he said that 'all' help is welcome.
Kind of disturbing to see the US, a well organized and rich country in this situation.
"Listen, lad. I built this kingdom up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was swamp. Other kings said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built it all the same, just to show 'em. It sank into the swamp. So, I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So, I built a third one. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp, but the fourth one... stayed up! And that's what you're gonna get, lad: the strongest castle in these islands.
SkaredShtles said:
These troops are battle-tested. They have M-16s and are locked and loaded," Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco said on Thursday night of one group of 300 National Guard troops being deployed here after recent duty in Iraq. "These troops know how to shoot and kill and I expect they will."
National Guard Troops Land in New Orleans
ALLEN G. BREED, Associated Press Writer
NEW ORLEANS - Ragtag armies of the desperate and hungry begged for help, corpses rotted along flooded sidewalks and bands of armed thugs thwarted fitful rescue efforts as Americans watched the Big Easy dissolve before their eyes.
About 4:35 a.m. Friday, a series of massive explosions along the riverfront a few miles south of the French Quarter jolted residents awake. The cause of the blasts or the extent of any possible damage was not immediately known.
An initial explosion sent flames of red and orange shooting into the pre-dawn sky. A series of smaller blasts followed and then acrid, black smoke that could be seen even in the dark. The vibrations were felt all the way downtown.
The explosions appeared to originate close to the east bank of the Mississippi River, near a residential area and rail tracks. At least two police boats were at the scene.
National Guard Troops Land in New Orleans
ALLEN G. BREED, Associated Press Writer
NEW ORLEANS - Ragtag armies of the desperate and hungry begged for help, corpses rotted along flooded sidewalks and bands of armed thugs thwarted fitful rescue efforts as Americans watched the Big Easy dissolve before their eyes.
About 4:35 a.m. Friday, a series of massive explosions along the riverfront a few miles south of the French Quarter jolted residents awake. The cause of the blasts or the extent of any possible damage was not immediately known.
An initial explosion sent flames of red and orange shooting into the pre-dawn sky. A series of smaller blasts followed and then acrid, black smoke that could be seen even in the dark. The vibrations were felt all the way downtown.
The explosions appeared to originate close to the east bank of the Mississippi River, near a residential area and rail tracks. At least two police boats were at the scene.
reposted from another forum that show the utter savageness of these people
"First off I wanted to post what REALLY is going on in this city. Please don't get this thread locked people. The news stations are only showing a minuscule of reality. This post may offend some people but I will post what I saw, like it or not it is REALITY.
.
.
.
.
.
Well last night I was watching the 6pm news when they announced the 17th street canal pumps failed as well as another break in the levee. My house is right off St. Charles Ave. and up to 6pm yesterday is was the only part of the city that was dry. Since the pumps failed and the new break St. Charles Ave. would be under 9ft of water in the next 12-15hrs. My brother and I felt if we wanted to save anything we had to leave NOW. We loaded up flashlights, rope, our medical ID's, both our .45 Glocks, 2 shotguns and rode out. En-route we listened to the radio which broad casted all the news about the looters and what not, in hindsight it was a mistake. My mother didn't want us to go by dad who is a Vietnam vet told to be safe and "shoot to kill" if it ever comes to that.
One the way we had to pass 5-6 checkpoints to allow entry into the city. We stated we were medical personnel who were activated, showed our ID and off we went. On the radio reports were coming in about the officer who was shot in the head, the 2 gunman who opened fired on the NOPD station, and how looters were carjacking cars to get out of the city. This started making my brother nervous and giving seconds thoughts.
Anyway we get to the city and it looks like a freaking war zone. The best visual I can give is the movie "Blackhawk Down" when all the Somalians are rushing the city. They are people EVERYWHERE, they are pissed off, and all have weapons, 2X4's, Axes, and guns. If this wasn't bad enough we are 2 white boys in a truck in a sea several hundred armed pissed off blacks. There wasn't a white person to be found. I couldn't get over the little 8-10yr old kids with weapons, I ever saw one carry a claw hammer!
These people were absolutely nuts rammed trucks(stolen I'm sure) in to jewelry stores stealing items, they were tearing apart Wal-Mart carrying out TV's, Playstations, DVD players, etc. One lady was wheeling out an entire rack of merchandise, not sure what it was but sure wasn't clothes for food. They were all laughing and carrying on like it's freaking Christmas.
We got stuck in traffic when we see the group of guys walking down the street w/ AK-47's, at that point the "pucker factor" kicked in, a couple Glocks and shotguns were no match for that. We haul azz trying to get to Uptown when we see these people chopping down the front door w/ an axe of this $4-5 million dollar mansion on ST. Charles Ave. I was just in total awe because it was so surreal. Making matters worse it's 11pm at night there is no electricity and you really can see anything or anyone until they are right up on you.
Our plan was to be in and out in 30min, this included putting his Harley on the trailer. It would have taken me 5-10min tops to get my stuff, all I wanted was my pictures from college, my clothes/shoes, and my computer tower. Well he got scared saying we are going to get jumped while putting the bike on the trailer. Keep in mind this is the only area in the city that is dry. So just like rats who move to higher ground these people were doing the same. Word must have gotten out that Uptown was dry so there started to be a large influx of people.
Needless to say he wanted to go home rather than take our chances. While it was the smart thing to do I was beyond infuriated w/ him because we made it this far. He just kept saying our lives aren't worth it. So we turned around, our next challenge was getting out of the city while not getting jacked. Reports came out that people were jumping in the back of truck holding the drivers at gunpoint. Traffic started to slow so I just nailed it got out as fast as I could.
Even though he was the voice of reason I'm still pissed. All I have is my life and the clothes on my back. I lost my house(which is now 9ft underwater) ALL my clothes, TV, computer, furniture, and photo albums and videos from childhood and college. What makes this worse is my brother owned the house and I was a tenant and I didn't have renters insurance, hindsight is 20/20.
I also hope everyone of the F*(king looters get Tetanus, E-Coli and F*(KING drown. I'm serious I really hope the all die for what they were doing to the city, killing people, and destroying homes. Never in my life have I ever seen people act live savages, it was truly sicking."
"First off I wanted to post what REALLY is going on in this city. Please don't get this thread locked people. The news stations are only showing a minuscule of reality. This post may offend some people but I will post what I saw, like it or not it is REALITY.
.
.
.
.
.
Well last night I was watching the 6pm news when they announced the 17th street canal pumps failed as well as another break in the levee. My house is right off St. Charles Ave. and up to 6pm yesterday is was the only part of the city that was dry. Since the pumps failed and the new break St. Charles Ave. would be under 9ft of water in the next 12-15hrs. My brother and I felt if we wanted to save anything we had to leave NOW. We loaded up flashlights, rope, our medical ID's, both our .45 Glocks, 2 shotguns and rode out. En-route we listened to the radio which broad casted all the news about the looters and what not, in hindsight it was a mistake. My mother didn't want us to go by dad who is a Vietnam vet told to be safe and "shoot to kill" if it ever comes to that.
One the way we had to pass 5-6 checkpoints to allow entry into the city. We stated we were medical personnel who were activated, showed our ID and off we went. On the radio reports were coming in about the officer who was shot in the head, the 2 gunman who opened fired on the NOPD station, and how looters were carjacking cars to get out of the city. This started making my brother nervous and giving seconds thoughts.
Anyway we get to the city and it looks like a freaking war zone. The best visual I can give is the movie "Blackhawk Down" when all the Somalians are rushing the city. They are people EVERYWHERE, they are pissed off, and all have weapons, 2X4's, Axes, and guns. If this wasn't bad enough we are 2 white boys in a truck in a sea several hundred armed pissed off blacks. There wasn't a white person to be found. I couldn't get over the little 8-10yr old kids with weapons, I ever saw one carry a claw hammer!
These people were absolutely nuts rammed trucks(stolen I'm sure) in to jewelry stores stealing items, they were tearing apart Wal-Mart carrying out TV's, Playstations, DVD players, etc. One lady was wheeling out an entire rack of merchandise, not sure what it was but sure wasn't clothes for food. They were all laughing and carrying on like it's freaking Christmas.
We got stuck in traffic when we see the group of guys walking down the street w/ AK-47's, at that point the "pucker factor" kicked in, a couple Glocks and shotguns were no match for that. We haul azz trying to get to Uptown when we see these people chopping down the front door w/ an axe of this $4-5 million dollar mansion on ST. Charles Ave. I was just in total awe because it was so surreal. Making matters worse it's 11pm at night there is no electricity and you really can see anything or anyone until they are right up on you.
Our plan was to be in and out in 30min, this included putting his Harley on the trailer. It would have taken me 5-10min tops to get my stuff, all I wanted was my pictures from college, my clothes/shoes, and my computer tower. Well he got scared saying we are going to get jumped while putting the bike on the trailer. Keep in mind this is the only area in the city that is dry. So just like rats who move to higher ground these people were doing the same. Word must have gotten out that Uptown was dry so there started to be a large influx of people.
Needless to say he wanted to go home rather than take our chances. While it was the smart thing to do I was beyond infuriated w/ him because we made it this far. He just kept saying our lives aren't worth it. So we turned around, our next challenge was getting out of the city while not getting jacked. Reports came out that people were jumping in the back of truck holding the drivers at gunpoint. Traffic started to slow so I just nailed it got out as fast as I could.
Even though he was the voice of reason I'm still pissed. All I have is my life and the clothes on my back. I lost my house(which is now 9ft underwater) ALL my clothes, TV, computer, furniture, and photo albums and videos from childhood and college. What makes this worse is my brother owned the house and I was a tenant and I didn't have renters insurance, hindsight is 20/20.
I also hope everyone of the F*(king looters get Tetanus, E-Coli and F*(KING drown. I'm serious I really hope the all die for what they were doing to the city, killing people, and destroying homes. Never in my life have I ever seen people act live savages, it was truly sicking."
stosh said:
Or a freekin' motorcycle made by a tee-shirt company...
Depot Explodes Over Lawless New Orleans
Sep 02 9:25 AM US/Eastern
Associated Press | ALLEN G. BREED
NEW ORLEANS - An explosion at a chemical depot jolted residents awake early Friday, illuminating the pre-dawn sky with red and orange flames over a city awash in corpses and under siege from looters. There were no immediate reports of injuries.
Vibrations from the blast along the Mississippi River and a few miles east of the French Quarter were felt all the way downtown. A series of smaller blasts followed and then a pillar of acrid, black smoke.
To jittery residents of flood-devastated New Orleans, it was yet another fearful sign of collapse in a city that has been plunged into lawlessness and despair since Hurricane Katrina slammed ashore Monday morning.
Congress was rushing through a $10.5 billion aid package, the Pentagon promised to send in 1,400 National Guardsmen a day to stop the looting and President Bush planned to visit the region Friday. But city officials were seething with anger over what they called a slow federal response to a disaster that may have killed thousands.
"They don't have a clue what's going on down there," Mayor Ray Nagin told WWL-AM Thursday night. "They flew down here one time two days after the doggone event was over with TV cameras, AP reporters, all kind of goddamn _ excuse my French everybody in America, but I am pissed."
In Washington, President Bush answered the criticism of the government response to the disaster by saying "the results are not acceptable" and pledged to bolster relief efforts with a personal trip to the Gulf Coast.
"We'll get on top of this situation," he said, "and we're going to help the people that need help."
Thursday saw thousands being evacuated by bus to Houston from the hot and stinking Superdome. Fistfights and fires erupted amid a seething sea of tense, suffering people who waited in a lines that stretched a half-mile to board yellow school buses. The looting continued.
Gov. Kathleen Blanco called the looters "hoodlums" and issued a warning to lawbreakers: Hundreds of National Guardsmen hardened on the battlefield in Iraq have landed in New Orleans.
"They have M-16s and they're locked and loaded," she said. "These troops know how to shoot and kill, and they are more than willing to do so, and I expect they will."
At the Superdome, group of refugees broke through a line of heavily armed National Guardsmen in a scramble to get on to the buses.
Nearby, about 15,000 to 20,000 people who had taken shelter at New Orleans Convention Center grew ever more hostile after waiting for buses for days amid the filth and the dead.
Police Chief Eddie Compass said there was such a crush around a squad of 88 officers that they retreated when they went in to check out reports of assaults.
"We have individuals who are getting raped, we have individuals who are getting beaten," Compass said. "Tourists are walking in that direction and they are getting preyed upon."
By Thursday evening, 11 hours after the military began evacuating the Superdome, the arena held 10,000 more people than it did at dawn. Evacuees from across the city swelled the crowd to about 30,000 because they believed the arena was the best place to get a ride out of town.
Some of those among the mostly poor crowd had been in the dome for four days without air conditioning, working toilets or a place to bathe. One military policeman was shot in the leg as he and a man scuffled for the MP's rifle. The man was arrested.
By late Thursday, the flow of refugees to the Houston Astrodome was temporarily halted after about 11,000 people had arrived _ less than half the estimated 23,000 people expected.
"We've actually reached capacity for the safety and comfort of the people inside there," American Red Cross spokeswoman Dana Allen said. She said people were "packed pretty tight" on the floor.
Texas Gov. Rick Perry announced that Dallas would host 25,000 more refugees at Reunion Arena and 25,000 others would relocate to a San Antonio warehouse at KellyUSA, a city-owned complex that once was home to an Air Force base. Houston estimated as many as 55,000 people who fled the hurricane were staying in area hotels.
The blasts early Friday rocked a chemical storage facility along the river, said Lt. Michael Francis of the Harbor Police. At least two police boats could be seen at the scene and a hazardous material team was on route. Francis did not have any other information.
While floodwaters in New Orleans appeared to stabilize, efforts continued to plug three breaches in the levees that protect this bowl- shaped, below-sea-level city, which is wedged between Lake Pontchartrain and the Mississippi River.
Helicopters dropped sandbags into the breach and pilings were being pounded into the mouth of the canal Thursday to close its connection to the lake.
At least seven bodies were scattered outside the convention center, a staging area for those rescued from rooftops, attics and highways. The sidewalks were packed with people without food, water or medical care, and with no sign of law enforcement.
A military helicopter tried to land at the convention center several times to drop off food and water. But the rushing crowd forced the choppers to back off. Troopers then tossed the supplies to the crowd from 10 feet off the ground and flew away.
"There's a lot of very sick people _ elderly ones, infirm ones _ who can't stand this heat, and there's a lot of children who don't have water and basic necessities to survive on," said Daniel Edwards, 47, outside the center. "We need to eat, or drink water at the very least."
An old man in a chaise lounge lay dead in a grassy median as hungry babies wailed around him. Around the corner, an elderly woman lay dead in her wheelchair, covered up by a blanket, and another body lay beside her wrapped in a sheet.
"I don't treat my dog like that," Edwards said as he pointed at the woman in the wheelchair. "You can do everything for other countries, but you can't do nothing for your own people."
Michael Brown, director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, said FEMA just learned about the situation at the convention center Thursday and quickly scrambled to provide food, water and medical care and remove the corpses.
The mayor lashed out at the government, saying: "I have no idea what they're doing, but I will tell you this: God is looking down on all this and if they're not doing everything in their power to save people, they are going to pay the price because every day that we delay, people are dying and they're dying by the hundreds."
Across the city, law and order broke down, and the rescuers themselves were being shot at.
Tourist Debbie Durso of Washington, Mich., said she asked a police officer for assistance and his response was, "'Go to hell _ it's every man for himself.'"
FEMA officials said some operations had to be suspended in areas where gunfire had broken out.
Outside a looted Rite-Aid drugstore, some people were anxious to show they needed what they were taking. A gray-haired man who would not give his name pulled up his T-shirt to show a surgery scar and explained that he needs pads for incontinence.
"I'm a Christian," he said. "I feel bad going in there."
Hospitals struggled to evacuate critically ill patients who were dying for lack of oxygen, insulin or intravenous fluids. But when some hospitals try to airlift patients, Coast Guard Lt. Cmdr. Cheri Ben- Iesan said, "there are people just taking potshots at police and at helicopters, telling them, `You better come get my family.'"
To make matters worse, the chief of the Louisiana State Police said he heard of numerous instances of New Orleans police officers _ many of whom from flooded areas _ turning in their badges.
"They indicated that they had lost everything and didn't feel that it was worth them going back to take fire from looters and losing their lives," Col. Henry Whitehorn said.
Sep 02 9:25 AM US/Eastern
Associated Press | ALLEN G. BREED
NEW ORLEANS - An explosion at a chemical depot jolted residents awake early Friday, illuminating the pre-dawn sky with red and orange flames over a city awash in corpses and under siege from looters. There were no immediate reports of injuries.
Vibrations from the blast along the Mississippi River and a few miles east of the French Quarter were felt all the way downtown. A series of smaller blasts followed and then a pillar of acrid, black smoke.
To jittery residents of flood-devastated New Orleans, it was yet another fearful sign of collapse in a city that has been plunged into lawlessness and despair since Hurricane Katrina slammed ashore Monday morning.
Congress was rushing through a $10.5 billion aid package, the Pentagon promised to send in 1,400 National Guardsmen a day to stop the looting and President Bush planned to visit the region Friday. But city officials were seething with anger over what they called a slow federal response to a disaster that may have killed thousands.
"They don't have a clue what's going on down there," Mayor Ray Nagin told WWL-AM Thursday night. "They flew down here one time two days after the doggone event was over with TV cameras, AP reporters, all kind of goddamn _ excuse my French everybody in America, but I am pissed."
In Washington, President Bush answered the criticism of the government response to the disaster by saying "the results are not acceptable" and pledged to bolster relief efforts with a personal trip to the Gulf Coast.
"We'll get on top of this situation," he said, "and we're going to help the people that need help."
Thursday saw thousands being evacuated by bus to Houston from the hot and stinking Superdome. Fistfights and fires erupted amid a seething sea of tense, suffering people who waited in a lines that stretched a half-mile to board yellow school buses. The looting continued.
Gov. Kathleen Blanco called the looters "hoodlums" and issued a warning to lawbreakers: Hundreds of National Guardsmen hardened on the battlefield in Iraq have landed in New Orleans.
"They have M-16s and they're locked and loaded," she said. "These troops know how to shoot and kill, and they are more than willing to do so, and I expect they will."
At the Superdome, group of refugees broke through a line of heavily armed National Guardsmen in a scramble to get on to the buses.
Nearby, about 15,000 to 20,000 people who had taken shelter at New Orleans Convention Center grew ever more hostile after waiting for buses for days amid the filth and the dead.
Police Chief Eddie Compass said there was such a crush around a squad of 88 officers that they retreated when they went in to check out reports of assaults.
"We have individuals who are getting raped, we have individuals who are getting beaten," Compass said. "Tourists are walking in that direction and they are getting preyed upon."
By Thursday evening, 11 hours after the military began evacuating the Superdome, the arena held 10,000 more people than it did at dawn. Evacuees from across the city swelled the crowd to about 30,000 because they believed the arena was the best place to get a ride out of town.
Some of those among the mostly poor crowd had been in the dome for four days without air conditioning, working toilets or a place to bathe. One military policeman was shot in the leg as he and a man scuffled for the MP's rifle. The man was arrested.
By late Thursday, the flow of refugees to the Houston Astrodome was temporarily halted after about 11,000 people had arrived _ less than half the estimated 23,000 people expected.
"We've actually reached capacity for the safety and comfort of the people inside there," American Red Cross spokeswoman Dana Allen said. She said people were "packed pretty tight" on the floor.
Texas Gov. Rick Perry announced that Dallas would host 25,000 more refugees at Reunion Arena and 25,000 others would relocate to a San Antonio warehouse at KellyUSA, a city-owned complex that once was home to an Air Force base. Houston estimated as many as 55,000 people who fled the hurricane were staying in area hotels.
The blasts early Friday rocked a chemical storage facility along the river, said Lt. Michael Francis of the Harbor Police. At least two police boats could be seen at the scene and a hazardous material team was on route. Francis did not have any other information.
While floodwaters in New Orleans appeared to stabilize, efforts continued to plug three breaches in the levees that protect this bowl- shaped, below-sea-level city, which is wedged between Lake Pontchartrain and the Mississippi River.
Helicopters dropped sandbags into the breach and pilings were being pounded into the mouth of the canal Thursday to close its connection to the lake.
At least seven bodies were scattered outside the convention center, a staging area for those rescued from rooftops, attics and highways. The sidewalks were packed with people without food, water or medical care, and with no sign of law enforcement.
A military helicopter tried to land at the convention center several times to drop off food and water. But the rushing crowd forced the choppers to back off. Troopers then tossed the supplies to the crowd from 10 feet off the ground and flew away.
"There's a lot of very sick people _ elderly ones, infirm ones _ who can't stand this heat, and there's a lot of children who don't have water and basic necessities to survive on," said Daniel Edwards, 47, outside the center. "We need to eat, or drink water at the very least."
An old man in a chaise lounge lay dead in a grassy median as hungry babies wailed around him. Around the corner, an elderly woman lay dead in her wheelchair, covered up by a blanket, and another body lay beside her wrapped in a sheet.
"I don't treat my dog like that," Edwards said as he pointed at the woman in the wheelchair. "You can do everything for other countries, but you can't do nothing for your own people."
Michael Brown, director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, said FEMA just learned about the situation at the convention center Thursday and quickly scrambled to provide food, water and medical care and remove the corpses.
The mayor lashed out at the government, saying: "I have no idea what they're doing, but I will tell you this: God is looking down on all this and if they're not doing everything in their power to save people, they are going to pay the price because every day that we delay, people are dying and they're dying by the hundreds."
Across the city, law and order broke down, and the rescuers themselves were being shot at.
Tourist Debbie Durso of Washington, Mich., said she asked a police officer for assistance and his response was, "'Go to hell _ it's every man for himself.'"
FEMA officials said some operations had to be suspended in areas where gunfire had broken out.
Outside a looted Rite-Aid drugstore, some people were anxious to show they needed what they were taking. A gray-haired man who would not give his name pulled up his T-shirt to show a surgery scar and explained that he needs pads for incontinence.
"I'm a Christian," he said. "I feel bad going in there."
Hospitals struggled to evacuate critically ill patients who were dying for lack of oxygen, insulin or intravenous fluids. But when some hospitals try to airlift patients, Coast Guard Lt. Cmdr. Cheri Ben- Iesan said, "there are people just taking potshots at police and at helicopters, telling them, `You better come get my family.'"
To make matters worse, the chief of the Louisiana State Police said he heard of numerous instances of New Orleans police officers _ many of whom from flooded areas _ turning in their badges.
"They indicated that they had lost everything and didn't feel that it was worth them going back to take fire from looters and losing their lives," Col. Henry Whitehorn said.
OK, a couple of things...
why the fvk is he just NOW going. Do you know how many NOPD, guardsmen, etc.. will have to be pulled from whatever missions to escort & provide security for him.
...&...
We'll get on top of this situation? WTF!? It is 5 days after the storm. These people needed help DAYS ago. How can he not know what is going on down there & has been for 5 days?
....I am going to stop now.
The only thing worse than the devastation caused by the storm, is how the powers-that-be have handled this catastrophe.
CLASSIC!MMike said:
So is this the first or second time NO has sank into the swamp?
FIY, this desaster has been 40+ years in the making... no one in the city or state government took the threat seriously enough to develope an actual plan to deal with the situation.TN said:
Check it: http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129581
most people pretty much figured they couldn't count on the Mayor of NO, or even the state gov't (LA has always been one of the most corrupt states in the nation) but not being able to count on the federal gov't?!stosh said:
I have to bring it up....most of these people trapped in NOLA live in poverty, dont vote, they dont have savings accts., most probably dont have SS#s & I just wonder what would have been different if there were a bunch of rich white people affected by this.
TN said:
They do vote and they vote for the democratic canidate all the time. They have been used for that party for the last 70 years.
And their elected officals have utterly and completly failed them.
Not like their elected officials didn't know that this situation was a real possibility.
even without a plan, a leader of some sort, FEMA, Natl gaurd, the governor, whoever, should have stepped up & at least organized some kind of effort to get people out or at least organized.N8 said:
N8 said:
This attitude of "they knew it was coming" is fvcking pathetic. It is beside the point too. we know local officials are failures in this matter...so we can just let the people trapped in the city die with no relief for 5 days & counting?
TN said:
They wouldn't be shooting at the rescue helicopters, the police or ambulance, trying to ransack hospitals...
How many hurricanes have creamed Florida and the Carolinas with none of this crap taking place? How many times has the army been called out for security?
Exactly how have their elected officials failed them?N8 said:
DRB said:
Millions and millions of federal governement dollars have been sent to LA to plan and prepare for this situation... and guess what... no plan, no blueprint... nothing.
UPDATE:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/
The City is ON FIRE
Teams Alpha and Bravo finished the medium range recon and there are 3 separate locations on fire. We have pictures coming shortly.
During the recon, I spoke to some Federal Marshalls and NOPD. Morale is LOW. Very low. They're not seeing the military presence they say they were promised. I told those guys they can't possibly imagine how much we (the world) appreciate their dedication. I asked what civil rights the citizens have and the US Marshalls looked at me like I just fell off the turnip truck and chuckled. I asked if citizens can have guns for protection and he said if someone thinks he needs a gun, he should have already evacuated. He also said they are setting the city on fire.
The NOPD wants to know where "the two active duty brigades" were that he says they were told were supposed to arrive today. When I asked him what he would want to tell the world, he said Everyone keeps talking about the military presence in the city, and then asked me," Do you see any military around here" in dusgust.
We reconned our roof also, to get a better view of the city and took... I hesitate to call them "amazing" pictures. My city... it has been punched in the face and is on the canvas being counted out.
And yes, that's smoke you see out of the windows. The city is under a haze from the fires. Smoke and ash are floating miles away from the fires.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/
The City is ON FIRE
Teams Alpha and Bravo finished the medium range recon and there are 3 separate locations on fire. We have pictures coming shortly.
During the recon, I spoke to some Federal Marshalls and NOPD. Morale is LOW. Very low. They're not seeing the military presence they say they were promised. I told those guys they can't possibly imagine how much we (the world) appreciate their dedication. I asked what civil rights the citizens have and the US Marshalls looked at me like I just fell off the turnip truck and chuckled. I asked if citizens can have guns for protection and he said if someone thinks he needs a gun, he should have already evacuated. He also said they are setting the city on fire.
The NOPD wants to know where "the two active duty brigades" were that he says they were told were supposed to arrive today. When I asked him what he would want to tell the world, he said Everyone keeps talking about the military presence in the city, and then asked me," Do you see any military around here" in dusgust.
We reconned our roof also, to get a better view of the city and took... I hesitate to call them "amazing" pictures. My city... it has been punched in the face and is on the canvas being counted out.
And yes, that's smoke you see out of the windows. The city is under a haze from the fires. Smoke and ash are floating miles away from the fires.
you dont know how you (i am assuming you are white) would behave if you were trapped in your attic for 4 days without food or water watching your family slowly die. The heat is oppressive down there, these people are starving, dehydrated, living in their own **** on rooftops & in attics, they are desperate & in survival mode, what is rational starts to become relative.Wumpus said:
People are acting like these people are going crazy because they see an opportunity to get away with it & this may be the true for some. But these people are trying to survive.
TN said:
Jesus H Christ...! WTF do you think is going on there...???
There are 10's of thousands of people that need to be evacuated and the number of available rescue helicopers, fuel, etc is extremely limited largely due to the scale of the disaster... and there is/was NO PLAN for this.
N8 said:
ROFLMAO!
TN said:
Don't really see your point. If you need help, you aren't going to be attacking the rescuers which by the way were doing there jobs when some hoodlums decided to start shooting at them. Would you continue to risk your life trying to rescue folks if people were shooting at you?
You didn't answer the question about why the Floridian hurricane victims have never started attacking the national guard and police.
Wumpus said:
Because NO has a criminal element that can't see past the moment.
My point is.....IT SHOULD HAVE NEVER GOTTEN TO THIS POINT.Wumpus said:
This was a historical storm. No city except Galveston in 1900 has been hit by a storm of this size & strength & even then, cities were a lot less populated.
Live from NO...
11:10 am Wow
If you're watching the feed, it's incredible. Hard to believe the fire department is still viable. God bless them. I'm no expert on conflagrations, but I don't think they're gonna win this one. Hopefully they can contain it.
It takes a spectacular kind of asshole to set a fire in this environment.
A lot of people are asking about our fuel situation. We have some, but we need more. We have a few days worth. We desperately need more. We're coordinating now.
By the way, here comes some military on cam.
11:10 am Wow
If you're watching the feed, it's incredible. Hard to believe the fire department is still viable. God bless them. I'm no expert on conflagrations, but I don't think they're gonna win this one. Hopefully they can contain it.
It takes a spectacular kind of asshole to set a fire in this environment.
A lot of people are asking about our fuel situation. We have some, but we need more. We have a few days worth. We desperately need more. We're coordinating now.
By the way, here comes some military on cam.
Guys,
Standing from the sidelines throwing political punches around is doing *NOTHING* - there's plenty of political blame for all involved.
The fact is, there wasn't much that could be done to prepare adequately for a storm of this rarity and magnitude. Except maybe rebuild the entire city before it happened. Can you imagine the cost?
And who in the country would've wanted to subsidize the anti-swampification of NO? THEY LIVE IN A FRIGGIN SWAMP BELOW A HUGE LAKE AND A HUGE RIVER.
Now they'll have the opportunity (afforded by insensitive Mother Nature) to MOVE THE FUGGIN' CITY.
$10 says they won't move it. They'll try to make it hurricane-proof and people will see this happen all over again someday.
Standing from the sidelines throwing political punches around is doing *NOTHING* - there's plenty of political blame for all involved.
The fact is, there wasn't much that could be done to prepare adequately for a storm of this rarity and magnitude. Except maybe rebuild the entire city before it happened. Can you imagine the cost?
And who in the country would've wanted to subsidize the anti-swampification of NO? THEY LIVE IN A FRIGGIN SWAMP BELOW A HUGE LAKE AND A HUGE RIVER.
Now they'll have the opportunity (afforded by insensitive Mother Nature) to MOVE THE FUGGIN' CITY.
$10 says they won't move it. They'll try to make it hurricane-proof and people will see this happen all over again someday.
The total civilian damage from Frances(Sept 2004) was determined to be approximately $8,830,000,000. Add in the estimated $100 million damage done to space and military facilities at Cape Canaveral, Florida and the total damage was estimated to be about $9 billion, making it the fourth costliest hurricane in U.S. history (not including damage in the other regions affected), behind Hurricane Andrew of 1992 and Hurricanes Charley and Ivan of 2004. Some areas of Florida received over 13 inches of rain during the slow onslaught. Much like Hurricane Charley earlier in the month, the Florida citrus crops took large amounts of damage.pnj said:
It affected the central regions of Florida just three weeks after Hurricane Charley(Aug 2004), which was the United States's second costliest hurricane with about $14 billion in damage. Frances then moved northward into Georgia where it weakened to a tropical depression.
Edit -- Charley was a Cat 4 (145 mph winds)
TN said:
So, your finally coming around....
another good point made in the WSJ today was in regards to the massive development of the area and shoreline, which removed a lot of the mangrove swamps, small islands, sand bars etc - the natural buffers which wouldn't stop a hurricane but certainly mitigate some of the force.