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The Hardtail 'Frames and Geometry' thread

Discussion in 'BMX & Dirt Jumping' started by Changleen, Mar 18, 2006.

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  1. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    OK, After all the discussion of which frame is most like this or that and lots of questions about what'smost like this or that, I thought it'd be really nice to have a thread with details of all the frame geometries and details of hardtails, BMXs and cruisers.

    Basically the idea of the thread is this:

    To collect posts each containing an image and geometry of as many hardtail Dirtjump, 4X, BMX, cruiser, freeride and street frames as possible.

    People who ride these sort of bikes are more likely than not to change out parts and forks and everything on their bikes so tyhe most useful thing for everyone is details about the frames themselves. Please ignore details about components unless they are frame specific in some way.

    Each post should contain a nice side-on image of the frame or complete bike in question along with the following basic details about the frame. Head angle, top tube length and chainstay length and MSRP as a basic minimum please, (all dimensions in inches please - use google to convert) and any other details would be great, especially frame weight.

    I'll trawl the net when I have the time and inclination and add to this, but please post frames you like or own with the details of geometry. Remeber it's kinda pointless to post without the geometry and a nice square straight side-on image of the frame so people can see what the angles really look like.

    If you have more details about a frame already posted, please PM the original poster of the frame in question and ask them to edit their original post to add more detail rather than reposting it!

    It'd be great if a Mod for this forum could make this sticky, please!

    Post away!
     

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  2. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    P3 2006 - Head Angle 69 degrees, 15.7" chainstay, Top tube 21.25" or 23.5"

     
  3. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    2006 Norco 416 - Head Angle 70.5 degrees, 15.9" Chainstay, 22.4" Toptube.

     
  4. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    2006 GT Ruckus DJ - Head angle 69-68 degrees, 16.14" Chainstay, 22.4" Top tube

     
  5. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    Revel 250R - 72 degree head angle, 15.75 -14.5" chainstay, 21" top tube.

     
  6. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    .243 Racing - 69 degree head angle, 15.1 - 16.7" Chainstay, 22.7 Top tube.

     
  7. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    2006 Giant STP - 69 Degreehead angle, 16" Chainstay, 22.1 - 23" Toptube.

     
  8. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    2005 S+M 24" Cruiser Frame - The RV

    Top Tube Lengths: 21.5"
    BB Height: 12"
    Chainstay Range: 15.5" - 16.375"
    Head Angle: 73 degrees
    Seat Angle: 70.5 degrees
    Weight: 5 Pounds 4 Ounces (2380 Grams)
    Headtube: Integrated
    Bottom Bracket: Euro

    Crappy image:



     
  9. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    2003 GT Moto

    Top tube length 22.5"
    71° head angle (Altered to 69 in '04)
    16.5" chainstay

     
  10. Tetreault

    Tetreault Monkey

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    dobermann pincher,molosse, and MBF frame geo
    69* head angle - 71* seat angle - 21.5 or 22.5 toptube - 15.35 to 16.15 inch chainstays
     
  11. Stoked

    Stoked Turbo Monkey

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    bmw park bike

    70 degree head angle, 71 degree seat angle
    22.125” top tube length
    15.25” – 16” chainstay length
    13.5” BB height, 68mm BMX BB shell

     
  12. Bicyclist

    Bicyclist Turbo Monkey

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    Evil DOC, regular

    Headtube angle
    68 with 4" fork

    Headtube length
    4.5"

    Headtube size
    1 1/8"

    BB height 24" wheels
    12"

    BB height 26" wheels
    13"

    BB shell
    68mm

    Chainstay length
    15.75 - 16.4"

    Toptube length
    23.15" Reg.

    Toptube length
    24.15" Long

    Seattube angle
    70

    Seat Tube Length
    15.25"

    Seat Post size
    31.6mm

    Front derailleur
    34.9mm

    Weight
    6.1 lbs

    *These numbers don't look good on paper but w/ a 3" fork it steepens it out and lowers the BB so it rides really nice.

    EDIT: Also, Evil must have been high when they measured the TT. Go for the Reg for DJ/street or the Long if you ride trails/are an ogre.

    EDIT # 2: $450 MSRP but can be had for $400 shipped from online retailers.
     
  13. 14psisupra

    14psisupra Chimp

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    ironhorse porter pro

    Frame size: 14"
    Actual Top Tube: 22"
    Effective Top Tube: 23"
    Head Angle: 70 degrees
    Seat Angle: 73 degrees
    Chain Stay Length: 16.1"
    Wheel Base: 41.8"

     
  14. bjanga

    bjanga Turbo Monkey

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    I think it may also be useful if we could include a link to the company's website, and (if you have personal experience with this) if full seat extension for climbing is possible.

    First off, this is pretty cool and/or off-topic:
    http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113828&highlight=burly+hardtails

    *****The voodoo shango:





    http://www.voodoocycles.net/shango.htm

    see page 206 / post 3077 in the burly hardtail thread (DH forum) for offtheedge's shango:
    http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10689&page=206

    unrealcycles has the shango for cheap:
    http://www.unrealcycles.com/item.php?view=58

    *****The voodoo bakka:



    http://www.voodoocycles.net/bakka.htm

    BOTH of these voodoo frames have cool sliding vertical dropout systems to allow for a geared or singlespeed disc setup.





    *****Woodman d-ml and d-s frames:







    http://www.woodmancomponents.com/products/framesets/d-ml.html

    http://www.unrealcycles.com/catalog.php?cat=Frames&com=Woodman







    I have not ridden any of these bikes in this post.
     
  15. bjanga

    bjanga Turbo Monkey

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    Well, an effective top tube measurement is going to be longer than the actual TT measurement, because the top tube effectively gets longer as the seatpost is extended.
     
  16. mistaare

    mistaare Chimp

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    ABOUT TIME. :-)

    i just spend months gathering this info. you guys are forgeting the EVIL sovereign.

    with 100mm fork
    headtube - 70
    BB - 12.7
    chainstay - 15.5-17"
    wheelbase - 40.7"
    toptube reg. - 23.16" (long - 24.16")
    seattube - 71
    6.1 lb's
     
  17. dooktruck

    dooktruck Chimp

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    Size (Measured From Center Of Bottom Bracket To Top Of Seat Tube) 14.5" 16.5"
    Recommended Fork Length 80-100mm 80-100mm
    Head Angle 69 69
    Headset 1 1/8 1 1/8
    Seat Angle 71 71
    Seatpost Size 27.2mm 27.2mm
    Top Tube Length Measured Center To Center 21.3" 22.4"
    Wheelbase 1043mm 1075mm
    Chainstay Length 419mm 419mm
    Bottom Bracket Width 73mm 73mm
    Bottom Bracket Height 12.5" 12.5"
    Disc Brake Mount Spacing 51mm IS 51mm IS
    Rear Axle Spacing 135mm 135mm
    Rear Axle Diameter 10mm 10mm
    Maximum Tire Clearance 2.5+ 2.5+
    Standover At Midsection Of Top Tube And Forward Of Seat Tube 27" 25" 29" 27"
    Weight 4lbs 13oz 5lbs
     
  18. fiddy_ryder

    fiddy_ryder Turbo Monkey

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    my T.O.P. is on its way!
     
  19. W4S

    W4S Turbo Monkey

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    Keep the thread on subject, B! Stoked for you.

    GEOMETRY (483.6mm axle-crown)
    Regular Long
    Top Tube (Effective) 22.12" 23.75"
    Top Tube (Actual) 21.5" 23.0"
    Seat Tube (center to top) 13" 13"
    Head Tube Angle 69° 69°
    Seat Tube Angle 70° 70°
    ChainStay Length 16.1" - 17.0" 16.1" - 17.0"
    Bottom Bracket Height 12.7" 12.7"
    Wheelbase 41" - 41.9" 42.7" - 43.6"
    Head Tube Length 4.725" 4.725"
    Max Rear Tire Clearance 26" x 2.7" 26" x 2.7"
    Rear Hub Spacing 135mm 135mm
    Rear Dropout Axle Size 10mm 10mm
    Head Tube 1.125" 1.125"
    BB Shell Width 73mm 73mm


     
  20. AN6 Freerider

    AN6 Freerider Monkey

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    damn that woodman is nice that d-s is sick..
     
  21. CreeP

    CreeP Monkey

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    well, the most important measurements to me -as a bit of a bike designer myself- are: front center, cs length, bb-centertop of headtube, and the angle of that line, and of course head angle and bb height. Those weird ones i just mentioned really tell you how the bike will fit. TT length really is bs, especially since there are so many variations in HA and STA. If you have a very upright style and want some cockpit room forward you could easily end up with the wrong feel, and a seat so far from your knees, if you go solely by toptube length simply because the seattube angle has such an effect on tt length.

    So for my Peyto: 420mm fork
    front center: 24"
    bb-ctht 650mm
    400mm cs 388 slammed
    actual tt 21.5
    bb height 320mm
    HA: 72
    SA: 73
    (a similar Peyto these days will cost you between 900 and 1400 depending on joining method and tube selection and extra features)


    ride report -um Awesome? it's a bit of a cliché now but it feels like a bmx, i chalk that up to the two piece bar, bmx stem and thick guage straight leg fork though mostly. The frame is pretty light too, at just under 5lbs. This is actually kind of useless as Paul doesn't really even have a starting point geometry, he does a geometry with you from scratch; which means if you don't get the right geometry it's pretty much your fault for not helping him understand your needs.
     
  22. boostindoubles

    boostindoubles Nacho Libre

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    Simple Bike co. '509' frame with optional horizontal dropouts.

    h/t 69*
    s/t 70*
    c/s 15.25"
    top tube long frame 22.75"
    stand 14.5"

    frame price- $600.00
    --------------------

    --------------------------
     
  23. boostindoubles

    boostindoubles Nacho Libre

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    considering this was the first 509 frame with horizontals, i have had zero issues. The mounts are not adjustable. I just throw my wheel in, tension the chain, and tighten it down. Been riding this frame for 3 months and its been working flawless
     
  24. spacemanspiff06

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    Top tube- 22.6
    chainstays- 16.5
    BB height- 12
    HA- 72? (i think this is with a ridged fork)
    wheel base- 41.4
    STA- 70

    edit: damn apples, i can't post a foto!
     
  25. scurban

    scurban Turbo Monkey

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    Tonic Fall Guy
    http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/774198/

    The Fall Guy is designed around 24" wheels, a 14mm axle BMX hub, and a euro bottom bracket. It is important to note the Fall Guy handles correctly with a Manitou Sherman or Stance 80mm fork. These forks feature a significantly lower axle to crown measurement (455mm) compared to even the 24" specific Marzocchi (468mm). We strongly recommend riding the bike with one of these forks, or something equally low. Minimum chain stay length is 14.75". Short. Low bars and a 71 head tube angle keep enough weight over the front wheel for balance and BMX like leverage on the bike. Size 10 shoes with 175mm cranks have plenty of x-up and bar spin clearance with the front wheel.
    Every detail on the Fall Guy was sweated so that it would be sufficiently strong, surprisingly light, and especially clean looking. We were tempted to simply use BMX style drop-outs and tube diameters, but this approach wouldn’t have satisfied us, as we knew there was room for improvement. You will find the 1" chainstay and seatstay tubing results in a very stiff rear triangle and a firm feel at the brake lever. Each drop-out consists of two laser-cut parts which form an extremely strong and clean looking joint. The unique laser-cut and formed chainstay yoke ties the chain stays together and provides ample tire clearance in a traditionally tight area. The Fall Guy’s thin, laser-cut top and down tube gussets are pleasing to look at, and strengthen this critical area while minimizing stress concentrations.
    Do you require 24/26 compatibility, disc brakes, huge gussets, a derailleur, a chain guide and 3-7" fork geometry? Plenty of great bikes like this.
    However, when all you need for a good time is a clean looking bike with dialed geometry and reliable components, consider the Fall Guy.


    Specs (with 80mm Manitou Sherman)


    Material: Full Aircraft Certified 4130 cro-moly.


    HT angle: 71 (steep enough to get some weight over the front wheel,slack enough for confidence.)


    ST angle: 71 (Perfect for grabbing seat with knees.)


    CS length (front of drop-outs): 14.75"


    TT length: along the TT, 21.9" BMX way to size the bike, and as absolutely irrelevant as any other way these bikes are measured. You’ll get used to it. I’m 6' tall and love it.


    BB Height: 12.375" with Kenda K-Rad 2.3's. Curious name, bitchin’ tire. DMR Moto is hot too.


    Seat post size: 26.8.


    Rear hub requirements: Any 14mm, BMX hub will work. LSD, or conventional.


    Brakes: V-brake only.


    BB: 68mm Euro.

    Price: $550...... and worth every Penny!
     
  26. dw

    dw Wiffle Ball ninja

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    The top tube lengths are virtual. Measured from the center of the head tube to the seat tube axis parallel to the ground....
     
  27. jacksonpt

    jacksonpt Turbo Monkey

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    This thread is great for people like myself who are in the market... Thanks for the good info everyone. Could I ask that in future posts in this thread people add MSRP to their post?
     
  28. Bicyclist

    Bicyclist Turbo Monkey

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    Thanks for the sticky. :thumb:
     
  29. fiddy_ryder

    fiddy_ryder Turbo Monkey

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    ToP ride report:

    got 'er built up... awesome damn bike for the price $439 msrp. Build is mucho quality. Clean welds and quality paint. Only wish was that it came with chain tugs. It does have a bit slack HA for dedicated jumper, but it is a do it all bike. Short seat tube is perfect length. I can run a full lenght seat post and still get enough leg extension to do some serious pedaling. This may not work for anyone over 6'. Running a uturn pike, makes this bike a great all-arounder.


    I give it :dancing: :dancing: :dancing: :dancing: outta 5


    B
     
  30. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    NOTE:

    Everyone: Can you add ride reports, etc, to post about the bike in question please, rather than making a new post?

    Secondly, can you delete any off topic posts you migh have made please, or add the contents to a relevant bike post? I just want to try and keep this clean.

    I've deleted my extraneous posts now, except for this one which I will delete in a few days.

    Cheers! :)
     
  31. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    24 Bicycles - Le Toy 4

    Head angle 69°
    Seat angle 71°
    Top tube: 22.2 or 23.4"
    Chainstay: 16.9" to 15.35"

     
  32. bjanga

    bjanga Turbo Monkey

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  33. bjanga

    bjanga Turbo Monkey

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    Is there only one twofourtythree frame?
     
  34. bjanga

    bjanga Turbo Monkey

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    *****Evil Imperial:



    Geometry:
    Headtube angle 69.2 with 4" fork
    Headtube length 5"
    Headtube size 1.5"
    BB height 26" 12.75"
    BB shell 73mm
    Chainstay length 15.5 - 17"
    Toptube length 20 - 24"
    Seat Post size 31.6mm
    Seat tube length 13.5"
    Front derailleur 31.8mm
    Weight 6.1 lbs
    1.5" Headtube
    http://www.evilbikes.com/structures_imperial.htm
     
  35. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    No, There are sort of three but they are very similiar.
     
  36. bjanga

    bjanga Turbo Monkey

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    I just read in the DH forum that woodman components went out of business ~6 mos. ago. Just FYI if you were looking at those woodman frames . . .
     
  37. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    24 Bicycles - Moon

    No information available for geometry yet :(

    It looks super nice though, full 4130, 24" wheel specific.
    Oh and a Titanium version too! :D :D Now I just need to win the lottery.

    Sorry for the big images.





    I'd expect you could get it without V-lugs if you asked nicely. Oh the production one looks like it has 6 bolts per dropout rather than just 4. 4 seems plenty to me....
     
  38. Bicyclist

    Bicyclist Turbo Monkey

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    First 24 I've liked. That looks like a sick rig! Come on guys, post up your rides!
     
  39. v-digit

    v-digit Turbo Monkey

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    that things been around for a bit, search da web for geo.
    however, one horrible horrible thing about that frame is that its 8lbs. oops.
     
  40. bigdrop05

    bigdrop05 Monkey

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    Haro Werks DSR
    Medium 15.5" ST
    22.5" TT c-2-c
    23.5" with seat up 3-4"
    16.5" Chainstay
    68mm shell
    Easton 7005 aluminum.
    2.4" fit's good.

    HA about 69-70* with Z.1 FR 130mm