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The Hardtail 'Frames and Geometry' thread

Discussion in 'BMX & Dirt Jumping' started by Changleen, Mar 18, 2006.

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  1. W4S

    W4S Turbo Monkey

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    Back in Hell A, b1thces
    HA 70, SA 74, TT 22, Chainstay 16", BB 12.2

    *will be changing to a BLackMarket Riot when they come available, but i love this bike.

     

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  2. kenjikuro

    kenjikuro Chimp

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    Haro Werks DSR My first bike = P
    Medium 15.5" ST
    22.5" TT c-2-c
    23.5" with seat up 3-4"
    16.5" Chainstay
    68mm shell



    on one gimp 2nd bike but its sold =X it is fun to play with, overall quite nice
    22inch tt ( 26 " ver)
    21.5" tt ( 24 "ver )
    16.5-16.8" cs
    70 degree headtube
    68mm shell





    Fall guy

    Specs (with 80mm Manitou Sherman)


    Material: Full Aircraft Certified 4130 cro-moly.


    HT angle: 71 (steep enough to get some weight over the front wheel,slack enough for confidence.)


    ST angle: 71 (Perfect for grabbing seat with knees.)


    CS length (front of drop-outs): 14.75"


    TT length: along the TT, 21.9" BMX way to size the bike, and as absolutely irrelevant as any other way these bikes are measured. You’ll get used to it. I’m 6' tall and love it.


    BB Height: 12.375" with Kenda K-Rad 2.3's. Curious name, bitchin’ tire. DMR Moto is hot too.


    Seat post size: 26.8.


    Rear hub requirements: Any 14mm, BMX hub will work. LSD, or conventional.


    Brakes: V-brake only.


    BB: 68mm Euro.

     
  3. hardtales

    hardtales Chimp

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    so, how do you measure (or interpret) the head tube angle, if different length forks will cause it to change...?
     
  4. bjanga

    bjanga Turbo Monkey

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    Some websites list what fork / tire the head angle was measured with.
     
  5. cannondalejunky

    cannondalejunky ease dropper

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    2005 cannondale chase
    small ; medium ; large
    Chase Geometry Chart

    Seat Tube Angle (degrees) 74 ; 74 ; 74
    Head Tube Angle (degrees) 69 ; 69 ; 69
    Horizontal Top Tube Length (in/cm) 21.4 ; 22.6 ; 24.0
    Seat Tube Overall Length (in/cm) 14.0 ; 14.6 ; 14.6
    Chainstay Length (in/cm) 16.7 ; 16.7 ; 16.7
    Fork Rake (in/cm) 1.8 ; 1.8 ; 1.8
    Bottom Bracket Height (in/cm) 11.7 ; 11.7 ; 11.7
    Wheelbase (in/cm) 40.7 ; 42.0 ; 43.4
    Trail (in/cm) 3.1 ; 3.1 ; 3.1
    Standover Height (in/cm) 28.9 ; 29.3 ; 29.3
    Bottom Bracket Drop (in/cm) 1.4 ; 1.4 ; 1.4
    Front-Center Distance (in/cm) 24.1 ; 25.4 ; 26.8
    Actual Top Tube Length (in/cm) 20.1 ; 21.2 ; 22.4



     
  6. Bicyclist

    Bicyclist Turbo Monkey

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    Find out what fork the HA was measured with. The general approximate rule is 1" longer or shorter fork yields a 1 degree decrease or increase in HA.
     
  7. cheeselad

    cheeselad Chimp

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  8. cheeselad

    cheeselad Chimp

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  9. cheeselad

    cheeselad Chimp

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    Quamen Emo
    26" or 24",
    68.8 Head Angle
    21.65 Top Tube
    15.75 Chainstay
    70 Seat Angle
    12" BB Height 5.57lbs
    Stock dropouts: 10mm axle, 135mm hub width
    -Upgradeable dropouts
    Mil-Spec 4130 Chromoly main frame, reinforced
    headtube junction, reinforced seatstay junction, machined seat
    tube, 1 1/8 headtube, 1.25" postsize, 35mm seatclamp.

    http://www.quamenbikes.com/


     
  10. JRB

    JRB Guest

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    Here you go, Changleen. 06 Roscoe with Pike dialed down to about 120mm.



    This shows the dropout I tapped to hold the axle back. It won't take a 2.3 slid forward in the drops, so I am holding it back on the drive side. I also have a tug on the non-drive side to keep it from pulling on hits. Not sure why pic turned out so huge, but you can see the detail. The hub is a cheap Ritchey that I threaded the axle to bolt on.

     
  11. SONofGAWD

    SONofGAWD Chimp

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    Top Tube 21.8"
    Chain Stay 15.75" - 16.65"
    Seat Tube 11.15"
    Wheel Base 41.1" - 42"
    BB Height 13.25"
    Stand Over 26.25"
    Head Tube 4.55"
    Head Tube Angle 69.5º
    Seat Tube Angle 70.3º
    Seat Post Size 27.2 mm
    Finish Ano. Black
     
  12. bjanga

    bjanga Turbo Monkey

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    Soul Cycles LOKI:
    Size (Measured From Center Of Bottom Bracket To Top Of Seat Tube) 14.5" 16.5"
    Recommended Fork Length 80-100mm 80-100mm
    Head Angle 69 69
    Headset 1 1/8 1 1/8
    Seat Angle 71 71
    Seatpost Size 27.2mm 27.2mm
    Top Tube Length Measured Center To Center 21.3" 22.4"
    Wheelbase 1043mm 1075mm
    Chainstay Length 419mm 419mm
    Bottom Bracket Width 73mm 73mm
    Bottom Bracket Height 12.5" 12.5"
    Disc Brake Mount Spacing 51mm IS 51mm IS
    Rear Axle Spacing 135mm 135mm
    Rear Axle Diameter 10mm 10mm
    Maximum Tire Clearance 2.5+ 2.5+
    Standover At Midsection Of Top Tube And Forward Of Seat Tube 27" 25" 29" 27"
    Weight 4lbs 13oz 5lbs




    Soul Cycles TITAN:
    Size (Measured From Center Of Bottom Bracket To Top Of Seat Tube) 15.5" 18"
    Recommended Fork Length 130-150mm 130-150mm
    Head Angle 69 69
    Headset 1 1/8 1 1/8
    Seat Angle 71 71
    Seatpost Size 27.2mm 27.2mm
    Top Tube Length Measured Center To Center 22.3" 23"
    Wheelbase 1076mm 1102mm
    Chainstay Length 430mm 430mm
    Bottom Bracket Width 73mm 73mm
    Bottom Bracket Height 12" 12"
    Disc Brake Mount Spacing 51mm IS 51mm IS
    Rear Axle Spacing 135mm 135mm
    Rear Axle Diameter 10mm 10mm
    Maximum Tire Clearance 2.5 2.5
    Standover At Midsection Of Top Tube And Forward Of Seat Tube 28" 24" 30" 26"
    Weight 4lbs 5oz 4lbs 12oz




    Santa Cruz Chameleon (measured with 500mm Axle-to-Crown fork):

     
  13. Bicyclist

    Bicyclist Turbo Monkey

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    NEMESIS PROJECT FRAMES: (Pictures are below the descriptions)

    24" DeathMobile
    22.30TT
    15.20 rear-end
    13.50 seat-tube
    11.88 B/B
    72º HA
    70º SA



    26" DeathMobile
    22.75TT
    15.50 rear-end
    13.50 seat-tube
    12.40 B/B
    70º HA
    70º SA



    DeathMobile Features
    - Spanish B/B
    - Internal headset
    - Simple design
    - BMX rear hub specific
    - TrueTemper OX platinum front triangle includes seat-tube !
    - 4130 straight gauge rear end
    - Gussets at head, top, and down tubes
    - Gussetted at chainstay/BB interface
    - CNC'd and custom engraved NEMESIS dropouts



    26" Secret Agent (Zach Dank specific angles)
    22.50 TT
    15.80 -16.50 rear end
    14.50 seat-tube
    12.50 B/B
    70º HA
    70º SA



    24" Secret Agent
    22.30TT
    15.50-15.75 rear end
    14.50 chainstays
    12.0 B/B
    72º HA
    70º SA



    Secret Agent Features
    - TrueTemper OX platinum front triangle, seat tube, and chainstays
    - 4130 straight gauge seatstays
    - Standard press fit 1 1/8 headtube , CNC machined and heat treated
    - CNC'd euro B/B shell
    - CNC'd and custom engraved NEMESIS dropouts
    - 135mm disk specific rear spacing
    - Gussets at headtube on top and downtubes



    StreetFighter (special order only)
    21.5 or 22.30 TT
    15.0 ST
    72º HA
    70º SA
    15.50-16.25 rear end
    Each street-fighter is hand built by Brad Hodges , for each customer on a per order basis . New '07 Street-Fighter coming soon!



    Frame Options include
    - Custom powder coat single, 2 and 3 process colors
    - Spanish B/B or EURO (euro required on 135mm bikes intended for geared use)
    - Internal or Press fit 1 1/8 headtubes
    - Custom cable guides or routing
     
  14. bjanga

    bjanga Turbo Monkey

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    Copy/paste from a response to an email I sent to Cortina Cycles asking about the Europa DS frame:

    Yes we do produce the frame and now it is called "The Mexican" and it is a 12mm through axle dropout frame. You can recieve the frame without paint, we do not do clear coating on raw aluminum. The head tube is 5" long and max diameter is 2-3/8" for 1.5" headsets. The BB is a 73mm shell width and the chainline measurement depends on the crankset you put on. The recomended fork travel is 100-130mm travel, the frame geometry is built around the manitou minute 3:00 100mm travel fork 18.89" axle to crown. The geometry is:


    Head tube angle: 69°
    Seat tube angle: 71°
    top tube (effective): 22" (short) 23" (long)
    seat tube (frame size, center of BB to top) 15"
    chainstay length 16"

    BB height: 12.25"
    The Mexican frame is a 4X and dirt jump frame, and even though the frame might be strong enough for a dual crown fork it is not recomended as well as tall single crown forks with 6" or more travel. Retail pricing is $650 for frame and axle, 100% hand built in the USA. These frames are being produced but out of stock right now.
     
  15. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    TwentyFour Seven DARK ANGEL V24 '06

    Strengthened rear triangle with thicker wishbones and heat treating on the chain stays making the frame 25% stronger. Another small detail is the cable routing for the rear v brake is now under the top tube giving more clearance.

    The 5th generation darkangel frame is now 24" specific and is one of the most rideable dirt/street frames in the world. Made from the highest quality 4130 cromoly, all frames feature an international standard rear disc mount and V brake bosses. Frames come complete with chain tugs.

    21.5" top tube length,
    71 degree head angle
    BMX type BB.

    Ideally suited for forks of 110mm but can accept up to 130mm within warranty. 27 seat tube. Available in Lime Green, Dark Red, Baby Blue, Electric Blue, Flip Brown and Black. All colours are pearlized. Weight 3kg. Seat post and clamp available at £14.99 extra. £199.99

    COMING SOON. V24.SL. Superlight version of the classic featuring spanish BB, integrated headtube, fully heat treated with 14mm dropouts. 1.4lbs lighter than the standard V24.

    Odd photo, sorry...



    Better build, worse angle:

     
  16. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    TwentyFour Seven DARK ANGEL V26 '06

    26" version of the v24. Strengthened rear triangle with thicker wishbones and heat treating on the chain stays making the frame 25% stronger. Made from the highest quality 4130 cromoly, all frames feature an international standard rear disc mount and V brake bosses. Frames come complete with chain tugs. 21.5" top tube length, 71 degree head angle and BMX type BB. Ideally suited for forks of 110mm but can accept up to 130mm within warranty. 27 seat tube. Available in Lime Green, Dark Red, Baby Blue, Electric Blue, Flip Brown and Black. All colours are pearlized. Weight 3.2kg. Seat post and clamp available at £14.99 extra. £199.99

    As above but with big wheels....
     
  17. FESTER

    FESTER Chimp

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    IDENTITI P-45

    TT, 553mm (21.75”)
    HA, 71 degrees on 440mm fork
    ST, 345mm (13.6”) at 72 degrees
    CS, 385mm (143/4”) min


     
  18. ÆX

    ÆX Turbo Monkey

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  19. nvd

    nvd Monkey

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    Grew up in Jim Thorpe, PA, then in Durango, CO for
    Ventana CVD Custom
    bb:12, cs:16, tt:22, stl:15, ha:69.75, sta:69

    sorry no showroom pic, but the geometry is dialed. This bike's ridden out of some crazy sh*t that I can only dream about. Really depends on what you want the bike for though, this design is a little sketch for really high speed racing applications. The only thing I'd change on a race bike is a slightly longer chainstay, and I emphasize slightly. But as a do everything play bike, unbelievable. DJ, Street, Vert, bmx track, even tight dual and mtx corses as long as there is no really fast, really choppy stuff. Bike's best attributes...throwin style!
     
  20. Christian

    Christian Chimp

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    Simtra bikes

    The BnB


    The Psycho
     
  21. xcursedx

    xcursedx Chimp

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    Has any put 80mm forks on a 24" general lee ?
    do you have pics ? how does it feel ?

    i picked up the general last year rode it for a month or so and taco'd the rear rim , it sat around all year until i decided to build it up, but i've been getting so many parts that i'll end up having a second bike

    ( i'm going to pick up one of the blk mrkt frames and a new wheelset, but in the meantime i want to ride the generel with some forks )


    ---------------------edit ------------------------
    nevermind, i got the blk mrkt riot , but i would still like to see what the general looks like with forks, i imagine the geometry would be crap ,

    so can anyone answer my questions ? =)
     
  22. BikeSATORI

    BikeSATORI Monkey

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    forgot Eastern, Sinister, NS Bikes, Draco, NPJ, Duncon, KGM, Agent, iron fist, SE, etc....

    but I'm a noob here so I'll watch you guys work for the moment...

    Great thread though, much needed resource, even though many of the frames here are already outdated (industry's movin' fast!) or out of production...
     
  23. kalNhobbs

    kalNhobbs Chimp

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    Here's my MC rumble. Although the company went away for awhile :nopity: , they are on the upstart, and from the company blog, they are not making any changes to the rumble ("if its not broke..."), which is good since it's the perfect all rounder.

    You can probably pick up a 2005 frame (the year they began the replaceable dropouts) for $150 on ebay, that's where I got mine.

    sm/med/lg:

    Head tube angle: 70°
    Seat tube angle: 73°
    Top tube (effective): 22/23/24"
    Seat tube: 15/17/19"
    chainstay length: 16"
    BB height (to center of BB shell): 12.25"
     

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  24. micahb

    micahb Monkey

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    This is a ton of good info. Should be required reading before asking "What bike should I get for DJ/Park?". By the way, what bike should I get for DJ/Park?
     
  25. nocturnalism

    nocturnalism Chimp

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    hey im new to dirt jumping just wondering if this would be any good as a first proper DJ bike




    specifications

    frame: full 4130 diamondback jump frameset with horizontal dropouts

    fork: suntour xcm 100mm travel

    hubs: formula cassete alloy sb black nutted axels and single speed converter. disc ready

    rims: diamondback doublewall alloy black

    spokes:14g steel with brass nippels

    tryes:kenda k-rad 26x2.35

    cassete:formuls single speed kit with 16tcog

    chainset: chromly 3pc slined

    bottombracket: cartride

    chain: kmc

    brake leveres: tektro alloy levers

    brakes: tektro alloy v brake

    headset: fsa pig

    bars: diamondback alloy rise bar os w:670mm r:50mm b:6degree

    grips:diamondback kraton rubber

    stern:diamondback alloy

    seatpost: diamondback alloy micro adjust l:300m

    saddle:outland dirt jump

    pedals:alloy platform

    what do you think also how much would you pay for it
     
  26. dexter

    dexter Turbo Monkey

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    way better options out there. 880% of the stuff on that bike will break in 2 rides
     
  27. Leon94

    Leon94 Chimp

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    XC/DJ Skookum specs:
     

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  28. Leon94

    Leon94 Chimp

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  29. Leon94

    Leon94 Chimp

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    http://www.sinisterbikes.com/images/2006 Images/2007_bikes/DNA/DNA_2007.pdf

    2007 Sinister DNA (small)

    73 mm ISCG bottom bracket shell
    135 x 10 mm rear spacing
    6.5 lbs. frame weight
    1 - 1/8” deep press headset compatible
    30.9 mm seat post
    no front derailleur
    31.8 mm seat post clamp
    International standard brake only
    All 6061 - T6 aircraft aluminum
    1 -1/8 x 4.5” head tube
    68.5-degree head angle
    Replaceable drops
    Square tube chain and seat stays
    Gusseted triangle for extra durability
    2.6” tire capacity
    Designed for 80 mm - 100 mm fork
     
  30. ddaiber

    ddaiber Chimp

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  31. cmc

    cmc Turbo Monkey

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    any 26's out there that are ultra short in the back, but XXL in the front, like a 23"tt ?
     
  32. BikeSATORI

    BikeSATORI Monkey

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    Atomlab Trailking.
     
  33. Sir_Crackien

    Sir_Crackien Turbo Monkey

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    yep the trailking has a 23.5" toptube. i measured mine as soon as i got it. i will post all the geo details when it gets biult
     
  34. a rider

    a rider Chimp

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    Rancidbikes Punisher prototype
    69.5 deg. head angle
    15 5/8''-16 1/2'' Chainstays
    73 deg. seat tube
    22 1/2'' Top Tube
    12 1/4'' BB height with this fork and tires
    MSRP Unknown at this time.



     
  35. TA..

    TA.. !

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    Another sick model here SuperCo Charger 26"

    Geometry (with 18.5” fork)

    Head Angle: 70°
    Seat Angle: 71° effective at 16 inch BB center to seat rails (68 actual)
    TT length (actual): 22.125 inch
    BB height: 12.125 inch
    Min CS length: 15 inch
    Min wheel base: 39.6 inch (with 1.75 inch fork offset)
    Head tube length: 4.5 inch
    Seat tube length: 9.75 inch (BB center to TT center)
    Frame weight: 4.9 lbs
     
  36. brandonbmx1

    brandonbmx1 Chimp

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    Here is my new aluminum staats mtx. The frame weighs only 3.9 lbs. The bike rides amazing. Here is the geometry from the website:


    7005 MTX Small Medium
    Top Tube 21" 22"
    Rider Area 26.3" 27.5"
    Chain Stay 16.25" 16.25"
    BB Height 12.8" 12.8"
    Head Angle 69* 69*
    Seat Angle 70.5* 71*
    Brake 26x1.95-2.25 26x1.95-2.25
    Head Tube 1 1/8" 1 1/8"
    Seat Post 27.2mm 27.2mm
    Weight 3.9lbs 4.0lbs

    I will try to take the measurements myself to verify the website. You may want to check out there website for measurement explanations, as they measure things a little differently. Rider area is basically the downtube length.
     
  37. buckoW

    buckoW Turbo Monkey

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    here is my new 2009 Scott Voltage



    The chainstays are 385mm
    BB drop is -15mm
    HA 69°
    TT is just long enough to xup/barspin with 170mm cranks
     
  38. tmx

    tmx aka chromegoddess

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    Not listed on the SuperCo site but there were some XL Charger's made with 23" TT.

    edit: But now sold out. More will be made when the next batch heads into production later this year.
     
    #78 -   Jun 24, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2008
  39. one piece crank

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    My current build, although no longer in production, possibly still available in Canada:
    Scratch_build1.jpg
    Banshee Scratch, large, below geometry for 24"x24" (also accepts 26"x26")
    - Fork Travel: 3"
    - Head Angle: 70°
    - Seat Angle: 72°
    - BB Height: 12.3" (312mm)
    - Seat Tube: 16” (406mm)
    - Top Tube: 23.5” (597mm)
    - Max Tire Clearance: 24x3.0" (26" x 2.8")
    - Rear Hub Spacing: 135mm
    - Rear Axle Size: 14mm single-speed (adaptors included), 10mm multi-speed
    - Chainstay: 15.75” - 17” (400- 432mm)
    - Wheelbase: 41.9” (1064mm)
    - Headset: 1.125"
    - Seatpost Dia: 27.2mm
    - BB: BMX (American BB)

    Tom P.
     
    #79 -   Sep 2, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2008
  40. buckoW

    buckoW Turbo Monkey

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    With the new single speed dropouts. I can run the rear slammed at 377mm or 14.8 inches.