I'm 5'10+ and on a medium. Wish it was a Large. I think you're on the right track.
The Official Iron Horse Sunday / DW-Link Tech. & Tuning Section
- Thread starter S.K.C.
- Start date
ask and ye shall receive! i was cruising through IG this morning and i found a guy who converted his to 27.5.
i asked him how it rode and he said: 'faster than 26, not as quite maneuverable'
Sounds like more of a fork problem than a bb height problem.I run shivers so there is no way to extend it haha
Nope, in the 2007+ frames there was a change in the upright forgings which is where the 0.9lbs was removed. This information is directly from DW:
This 0.9lb difference only came in 07 onwards. Confusion stems from the fact that the 05-06 US 'factory' frames were slightly lighter than 05-06 TW models due to the use of a 6069 tubeset (instead of 6061) and different butting profiles. The 6069 material variation continues in US-made frames for 07-08, however they must have matched the butting profiles because from 07-08 the TW frames weren't heavier.
I have weighed the 07+ TW and US 'factory' frames personally and the weights are the same (the US was 15g lighter with both frames completely paint-stripped, which I consider negligible). These are the lightest Sunday frames, with the only production exception being the 2008 Factory in black which is a further ~80g lighter due to being anodized. Hill's 2008 Championship bike is another exception with the milled uprights and lighter upper linkage hardware (all aluminium) from the MK3.
Finally, 2009 frames are all from TW and are the same as an 07-08 TW frame.
All good then, enjoy. Loctite all the bolts on assembly and keep the hardware tight.
^^^ Where do you ride? Sometimes, IMO, modern DH angles of 63° or less are too slack and you unweight the front end too much and your level of control drops. Yes the bike would certainly handle 63°, but you might enjoy 64° (-1) just as much and retain more control.
That said, most people in this thread seem to really like -1.5 or -2. I recently bought a -1 setup, have yet to install it though.
That said, most people in this thread seem to really like -1.5 or -2. I recently bought a -1 setup, have yet to install it though.
How did he manage to sqeeze the rear wheel inside the frame? Earlier in this thread it was said a 650b-wheel cannot go in at all. Can he explain?ask and ye shall receive! i was cruising through IG this morning and i found a guy who converted his to 27.5.
i asked him how it rode and he said: 'faster than 26, not as quite maneuverable'
Do you have instagram? If not, you should be able to search for his profile.How did he manage to sqeeze the rear wheel inside the frame? Earlier in this thread it was said a 650b-wheel cannot go in at all. Can he explain?
Someone else asked on one of his posts, he said he had to file 3-4mm off.
very cool, please do!
I thought about trying 27.5, but I think I am just going to stick with 26. although, I am having a hard time deciding on what angle for the angle set (-1.5 or -2)!
I thought about trying 27.5, but I think I am just going to stick with 26. although, I am having a hard time deciding on what angle for the angle set (-1.5 or -2)!
-2° for sure! I am running -1.5° at the moment, but tried the bigger one. It gives me more control!
And I think if ^^this 27.5 thing is all good, I will run it because 27.5 fits my riding style. And I love making custom things... The more custom, the better!
And I think if ^^this 27.5 thing is all good, I will run it because 27.5 fits my riding style. And I love making custom things... The more custom, the better!
is there a way to specifically search this thread? ive gone though about a third of it and I still have some questions that had to have been asked already..
I found a 2008 CC DB coil for cheap on PB. I am thinking about putting it on the 06 I just bought. It looks different than the newer ones (no gold color on the body). Should I have it revalved before installing? Have the shock tunes been the same across the board, or has CC updated as they went alone?
I am not real big on suspension stuff, so if someone could point me to the correct page or post (or answer my ?), id appreciate it. I know the sundays have some weird leverage curve (?) and some shocks feel weird on the bike (from what ive gathered in this thread).
edit: I tried to google it and I couldn't see any other coil DB without the gold color on it. What makes this one special?
Here is the link:
http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/1879184/
I found a 2008 CC DB coil for cheap on PB. I am thinking about putting it on the 06 I just bought. It looks different than the newer ones (no gold color on the body). Should I have it revalved before installing? Have the shock tunes been the same across the board, or has CC updated as they went alone?
I am not real big on suspension stuff, so if someone could point me to the correct page or post (or answer my ?), id appreciate it. I know the sundays have some weird leverage curve (?) and some shocks feel weird on the bike (from what ive gathered in this thread).
edit: I tried to google it and I couldn't see any other coil DB without the gold color on it. What makes this one special?
Here is the link:
http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/1879184/
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it's old. It might have spherical bushings instead of DUs. Just get an RC4, it's the favorite and has a nice bottom out feature that should help.
You can search this thread via the magnifying glass in the upper right, then just check the box that says "search this thread only".
You can search this thread via the magnifying glass in the upper right, then just check the box that says "search this thread only".
THANK YOU. going to make my life much easier, now that I can just search this thread.
A quick search reveals that I need the RC4 with the boost valve. Going to go look for some!
So, if i understand correctly, you just need to gring 1-2mm from the connection between both chainstays in order to open room for the tyre. Correct? But he didn't explained what happened to the BB height. Would have been best if you could get him here in the thread.
The BB height is going to be a disaster. There's no avoiding that - it will see roughly a 0.5" rise (edited - thx bengxe) if you convert both ends, which is great if you want to start attending Norco appreciation days.
To correct it you'd need to reduce travel (via shorter shock) which is definitely a step backwards - there's really no other (good) way to correct it on that bike.
Bottom line - don't bother with 27.5 on rear of Sunday unless you want terrible geometry. It'd probably work okay just on the front with a few corrections.
To correct it you'd need to reduce travel (via shorter shock) which is definitely a step backwards - there's really no other (good) way to correct it on that bike.
Bottom line - don't bother with 27.5 on rear of Sunday unless you want terrible geometry. It'd probably work okay just on the front with a few corrections.
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How are you getting 1"? I thought the difference in wheel diameter was a little less than that. Assuming your fork clears the 650b tire and you're not running it at the minimum height to start with, the bb height change should be less than half an inch. Maybe still enough to attend norco owner appreciation days, unless you run a low fork and a 2-3 degree headset.
And grinding your frame to fit an xc tire tells me that wheel size doesn't fit.
Oops that should read 0.5", yes you're correct.
Still enough to attend the appreciation days though, and you're destroying the mud clearance which is actually something the Sunday is very good for. Rode back to back with the DW-DHR in Champery (on a muddy day) and the Sunday kept going while the DHR had a locked back wheel. If you're having to remove material from the chainstay for the tire to clear then it's already a failed quest in my book.
I just think a 650b conversion on the back of this frame is not a good idea all things considered, a waste of a good frame really. But to each their own - and I agree with you, if you have a super slack headset and slammed fork it could be *just* bearable - if you never ride in mud on top of all that.
Still enough to attend the appreciation days though, and you're destroying the mud clearance which is actually something the Sunday is very good for. Rode back to back with the DW-DHR in Champery (on a muddy day) and the Sunday kept going while the DHR had a locked back wheel. If you're having to remove material from the chainstay for the tire to clear then it's already a failed quest in my book.
I just think a 650b conversion on the back of this frame is not a good idea all things considered, a waste of a good frame really. But to each their own - and I agree with you, if you have a super slack headset and slammed fork it could be *just* bearable - if you never ride in mud on top of all that.
Changed my M frame to an L.
Powder coated, fresh bearings and pivot axles, new decals, -2º angleset... 16.22kg (35.76lbs), around 1200mm WB and 34.4cm BB height.
Full Bikecheck.
Powder coated, fresh bearings and pivot axles, new decals, -2º angleset... 16.22kg (35.76lbs), around 1200mm WB and 34.4cm BB height.
Full Bikecheck.
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That is one good looking Sunday. Coming here makes me want to build one even though I have no reason lol I have looked at frames though and it seams hard to find one without dents in the headtube gussets
Out of interest. What do you weigh? and where can you get away with EXOs and AM-490 rims?
I'd kinda like a light DH bike and had my sunday down to 39lb for a while but it just didn't hold up so it's back at 41lb now. Might rebuild it over the winter paying attention to weights. There's no way any carbon's getting used though.
Somewhere where you're not riding real DH, as I'm sure you're implying. I've always had full thickness DH casings and 580-590g rims as the staple of a good DH build and would never change that.
You can build an 07+ Sunday up at roughly 16.6kg (37#) with zero compromise on parts durability, with coil front/rear and proper DH rims, tires, bar width and crank/pedal strength. No carbon. You'll pay for it though because "light/strong/cheap, pick two" always applies.
At 16.22 compromises are definitely being made. But of course like you said perhaps the usage scenario is different.
I can assure you no compromise is being made and that the bike goes down real DH trails.
Wheels have always hold up pretty strong, some broken spokes and thats it. Was geting a lot of flats before going with the tubeless setup but it seems to be solved now.
PS: I weigh 75kg.
Wheels have always hold up pretty strong, some broken spokes and thats it. Was geting a lot of flats before going with the tubeless setup but it seems to be solved now.
PS: I weigh 75kg.
Thanks. My wheel/tyre combo has 33% MOAR rider to deal with than yours. Kinda what I'd feared. :/
Thanks. But for me I'm not so sure.
I'm with you on most of what you're saying but...
I can't/don't* get on with tubeless so still run DH tubes F&R always with dual plys (obvs)
I also don't get on with light cranks (I still run mk1 saints on all my bikes (even for XC) as every other crank I've ever ridden has let me down one way or another in the past.
For similar reasons Ti pedal axles are out too.
I already run possibly the lightest Ti spring around on one of the lightest shocks.
Pretty sure all the excess weight my old '08 Sunday carried around was in the wheels, those cranks and the old Boxxer team but if I strip it down over the winter I will pay more attention to individual weights putting it back together. Spend more time on the road bike this winter wouldn't hurt either.
[ *The only tubeless set-up that's ever even vaguely worked out for me was a front 823 with twice the recommended amount of sealant and always running a minimum of 35psi. ie. pointless on all counts (weight/grip/punctures etc.). Things may have improved ]
FWIW, I regularly run twice the recommended amount of sealant(Stans) in all my tubeless setups and haven't had anything but positive side effects. I used to run single ply DHF's on the trail bike with tubes, I converted the rims to ghetto tubeless and mounted EXO's with twice the recommended amount of sealant, and I only gained a negligible 15 grams in weight for the whole wheelset. The extra sealant gives a little more flat protection and doesn't dry out as fast.
mine should be at my parents house today. too bad I have to wait until the weekend to check it out. =/
going to be a fun winter project! Its been a long time since I have stripped and painted a frame. I can already feel the tips of my fingers going numb!
going to be a fun winter project! Its been a long time since I have stripped and painted a frame. I can already feel the tips of my fingers going numb!
latex gloves...learned that one the hard way.
I run freeride tubes and gen 2/3 saint cranks on all builds, if you actually need DH tubes and gen 1 saint cranks (can you actually wreck the later ones?) then you are at a level of hack that is beyond my help.
Ti spindles in my experience aren't any easier to bend than steel ones, usually because the steel ones aren't the highest grade steel they could be in most scenarios (often reflected in the replacement price) - but it varies from brand to brand.
ha ha... I wouldn't say I'm a hack but I do have the odd fairly big crash, clip rocks from time to time and like I already explained, weigh a fair bit. All of which, from experience. rules out Ti, lightweight rims, tubes and crank arms.
I've bent plenty Cromo pedal spindles. I'm fine with this as they're cheap and easy to replace and most bent spindles won't end your day. I won't use Ti spindles as they tend to shear. infact every Ti product I've ever used has snapped/sheared (barring my shock spring... but give that time )
I don't know what a freeride tube is.
I haven't actually owned any newer Saints. I just love the stiffness and durability of Mk1s over everything I ever used previous to them so keep using them.
What do you weigh? I feel calculations may be needed here
I've bent plenty Cromo pedal spindles. I'm fine with this as they're cheap and easy to replace and most bent spindles won't end your day. I won't use Ti spindles as they tend to shear. infact every Ti product I've ever used has snapped/sheared (barring my shock spring... but give that time
)I don't know what a freeride tube is.
I haven't actually owned any newer Saints. I just love the stiffness and durability of Mk1s over everything I ever used previous to them so keep using them.
What do you weigh? I feel calculations may be needed here