[ire]

They are allowing disc brakes in cross!
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-to-allow-disc-brakes-in-cyclo-cross-competition

I was hoping they wouldn't because I'll now be at a disadvantage for not having em It would cost serious cash to upgrade all my gear. Oh well, I guess I'll suffer with cantis.

I also don't like the 80% rule; the race officials will use this as an excuse to pull everyone from the course before its time.

 

[James]

And what was the point of reducing the tire size to 33c???

This is going to come a bit late for many, many bike companies for their '11 models. I see a mid-season refresh in many futures...

 

[CBJ]

I will await the hydro Di2 combo costing an arm and leg plus a kidney.

 

[ire]

And what was the point of reducing the tire size to 33c???

This is going to come a bit late for many, many bike companies for their '11 models. I see a mid-season refresh in many futures...

I'm wondering how many pros will adopt disc? My hope is that most don't, then I won't feel the need On the plus side, my new frame is a full custom Ti frame so I could have disc tabs added later.

 

[CBJ]

Disc vs. cantilever breaks come on Ire not a difficult choice especially in muddy conditions.

 

[James]

I'm wondering how many pros will adopt disc? My hope is that most don't, then I won't feel the need On the plus side, my new frame is a full custom Ti frame so I could have disc tabs added later.

Just gotta wait for the carbon CX disc forks, which will take a while, at least at the high-end level. It means a whole new design, and unless they've already had them done, it'll be quite a while for that, testing, etc...

 

[ire]

Just gotta wait for the carbon CX disc forks, which will take a while, at least at the high-end level. It means a whole new design, and unless they've already had them done, it'll be quite a while for that, testing, etc...

I'd have DeSalvo add disc tabs when he builds my frame, but I suspect that the companies are going to come out with a different standard for road bikes.

 

[James]

I'd have DeSalvo add disc tabs when he builds my frame, but I suspect that the companies are going to come out with a different standard for road bikes.

Road bikes is a long way from CX bikes though...

 

[ire]

Road bikes is a long way from CX bikes though...

Maybe. I think they'll move towards approving since they have in cross. SRAM has been selling it as a safety measure since you won't heat up the tubular glue on hot days. Plus, if we've already got motors in our seat tubes why not the disc brakes to go with it!?

 

[OGRipper]

About friggin' time. Rules that inhibit technological progress drive me nuts.

 

[4xBoy]

Interesting , but I doubt there will be many disc frames soon, or good cross disc wheels.

The 33 tire rule is odd, will they go by the claimed size on the side of the tire or a real measurement?

I know everyone races tubular tires but I am not seeing any real choices for clincher tires in less then 35.

 

[James]

Maybe. I think they'll move towards approving since they have in cross. SRAM has been selling it as a safety measure since you won't heat up the tubular glue on hot days. Plus, if we've already got motors in our seat tubes why not the disc brakes to go with it!?

It'll be a long while until disc road bikes, mark my words. 5 years from now we'll still be using caliper brakes.

Interesting , but I doubt there will be many disc frames soon, or good cross disc wheels.

The 33 tire rule is odd, will they go by the claimed size on the side of the tire or a real measurement?

I know everyone races tubular tires but I am not seeing any real choices for clincher tires in less then 35.

Good point on the wheels, I don't see a company like Zipp coming out with disc hubs in any sort of short time frame. There might be some 130mm compatible hubs, I bet King could make you one, but then there is added stress on the rim from the braking forces at the hub, etc. It'll be a while for anything I think.

 

[OGRipper]

It'll be a long while until disc road bikes, mark my words. 5 years from now we'll still be using caliper brakes.

Good point on the wheels, I don't see a company like Zipp coming out with disc hubs in any sort of short time frame. There might be some 130mm compatible hubs, I bet King could make you one, but then there is added stress on the rim from the braking forces at the hub, etc. It'll be a while for anything I think.

You make good points. Plus, discs have a weight penalty, and frames and forks need to be beefed up somewhat to take the braking forces. But it would be great to have discs on road and cross bikes. No more worries about heating up your rims and pads, no more worries about losing your brakes in crappy conditions, no more worries about a wheel coming a little out of true on a ride, etc.

Plus wheels can get lighter at the rim if you don't need a brake track. Disc specific carbon road wheels anyone? Sign me up.

 

[oldfart]

Interesting , but I doubt there will be many disc frames soon, or good cross disc wheels.

The 33 tire rule is odd, will they go by the claimed size on the side of the tire or a real measurement?

I know everyone races tubular tires but I am not seeing any real choices for clincher tires in less then 35.

Oh they have to actually measure. Otherwise tire companies can simply re-label their tires and most stated widths are inaccurate anyway. Plus rim width in clinchers also affects tire width.

As to having to beef up frames and forks for disc calipers, probably only partialy true as the beef simply moves from the canti studs to the end of the frame and fork. I suspect that top pros will try them but not use them because of the current weight penalty with mechanicals.

What is funny are the naysayers making the exact same arguments that naysayers made when disc brakes came to town for mountainbikes. Disc hubs are a no brainer, a thinner spacer on the disc side to most current hubs and you're there. Front 9mm are the same. No the real challenge will be a nice lightweight hydraulic stopper. Maybe using 140mm rotors or smaller. Once that is developed I'll be all over it like a fat kid on an M&M.

 

[OGRipper]

And I think it will be relatively easy to come up with a lighter caliper - just make it a little smaller than the current offerings while making sure it still dissipates heat. Easy for me to say, I know, but to me a bigger challenge will be coming up with an elegant solution at the lever/master cylinder, particularly since pretty much everyone runs combined shifter/brake levers. To win acceptance they'll need an integrated system that does not appear more bulky than current designs. Shimano did the dual-control hydro thing for mtb's for a while, so it's doable, but still, it's unlike with mtb where shifters and brake levers are pretty much all separate.

 

[loco-gringo]

Trouble with discs on road bikes has always seemed to be tire size. Take something with lots of stopping power and pair it with something with a small contact area and you have trouble. I don't think the tires can handle the power of stopping.

 

[CBJ]

In mountain biking they really made a difference and was needed and I am sure it will be the same for cross but I can't see the need for road bikes.

 

[James]

Interesting talk her from SRAM folks about racer's need/want for a full hydro system...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-allows-disc-brakes-for-cyclo-cross

 

[4xBoy]

An unconfirmed report pins Shimano and LaPierre bicycles as responsible for the change.

Hmmmm,....

I wouldn't be shocked to see Shimano drop a Hydro DI2 in the near future.

 

[ire]

I guess I should unload any spare cross frames I have since their worth will now decline

 

[blue]

Trouble with discs on road bikes has always seemed to be tire size. Take something with lots of stopping power and pair it with something with a small contact area and you have trouble. I don't think the tires can handle the power of stopping.

Discs don't provide more braking "power", per se, from a physics standpoint (than a brake at the rim).

 

[CBJ]

Discs don't provide more braking "power", per se, from a physics standpoint (than a brake at the rim).

Yes, too much power just get smaller dics but how about aerodynamics I hear roadies care about aerodynamics

 

[ire]

Yes, too much power just get smaller dics but how about aerodynamics I hear roadies care about aerodynamics

You could probably have the fork act as a faring for the caliper. If they approve use for road, it will be interesting to see what the bike manufacturers come up with.

 

[oldfart]

Look at how light Stan's xc race rims are. That is at least partly because no brake track is needed. Now imagine how light road rims can be with the brake track eliminated. They could be made with really low sidewalls for clinchers which saves weight plus being a short sidewall they won't need to be as beefy to hold a tire on under pressure and there would be no need to consider wear.

Same arguments were made about brakes on mountainbikes. Oh canti are fine you don't need v's you just need to set them up properly. Then full suspension made canti's a total pain. But v's have all the modulation of a light switch.

I do think the differences between waht a road caliper and what road disc brake might provide will be far less different than off road. But I was thinking that the cross market is kind of small to develop a cross only disc brake setup that was hydraulic with integrated levers.

 

[OGRipper]

I do think the differences between waht a road caliper and what road disc brake might provide will be far less different than off road. But I was thinking that the cross market is kind of small to develop a cross only disc brake setup that was hydraulic with integrated levers.

It's a much bigger market in europe, but still a good point. When it occurs I suspect the dollars will be invested with a view toward eventually hitting the road market.

An easier approach would be a more refined version of the existing cable discs. Or a cable-actuated hydro caliper.

 

[ire]

It's a much bigger market in europe, but still a good point. When it occurs I suspect the dollars will be invested with a view toward eventually hitting the road market.

An easier approach would be a more refined version of the existing cable discs. Or a cable-actuated hydro caliper.

For cross you would still have the issue of cable contamination, but I guess we'll see how it pans out. Cable brakes would be the easiest to adapt to STI

 

[oldfart]

The issue with machanicals is weight, which means the top guys will be reluctant to add weight to their bikes other than for specific circumstances and if the top pros won't run them the manufacturers will have a harder time convincing us prolls that we need them.

It's not much of a challenge for the big S's to produce an integrated hydraulic brake lever shifter combo and a very light caliper and perhaps aluminum rotors. Engineering is not much different than the XTR integrated set up. It's the cost to actually design test and make up the tooling to manufacture the parts weighed against profits. Step one: Collect all underpants. Step 2: ??????????. Step 3: Profits.

 

[ire]

I bet Shimano will have a rider on a full Di2 with Hydros this season. The ultimate cross rig, no cables to muck up.

 

[buildyourown]

discs make sense in cross for the mud but not for road racing. The braking in dry conditions is actually worse. I have them on my road bike, and I'm looking to switch back to dual pivots since I'm a sally and never ride in the rain anymore.

 

[CBJ]

discs make sense in cross for the mud but not for road racing. The braking in dry conditions is actually worse. I have them on my road bike, and I'm looking to switch back to dual pivots since I'm a sally and never ride in the rain anymore.

You are talking mechanicals?

 

[buildyourown]

You are talking mechanicals?

Yeah. All things being equal in dry conditions, good rim brakes are better.

 

[CBJ]

I am sure there will be hydraulic disc brakes eventually.