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things you can take out of the 2010 boxxer WC?

saruti

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,169
73
Israel
I read somewhere that people is throwing away the foam ring from the air cartridge, for making it better... (?)
Why?
And today on pinkbike.com I saw that you can even take out the oil seals... :think:

Does any of you guys did it and can tell if it for the better?

Thanks
 

yetihenry

Monkey
Aug 9, 2009
241
1
Whistler, BC
The oil seals have two lips, some people have cut on of the lips off. Have to lower lube more often but reduced stiction. Alex Evans was one of the first to do this I know of and wrote up a guide.
 
Jun 20, 2007
349
9
The oil seals have two lips, some people have cut on of the lips off. Have to lower lube more often but reduced stiction. Alex Evans was one of the first to do this I know of and wrote up a guide.
That is one of the dumbest bike mods I have ever heard of.
 

Commencal-guy

Monkey
Nov 25, 2007
341
0
Massachusetts, US of A
Yes get rid of the Foam ring on the 2010 Solo Air assembly. It doesn't do jack crap. It clogs up the Solo Air assembly getting stuck underneath the o-rings since it expands too much. If you have the newer World Cups then you won;t have to worry since for the 2011's don;t have this design anymore.
 

Steve M

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2007
1,991
45
Whistler
That is one of the dumbest bike mods I have ever heard of.
You cut out one lip out of the two that are there, and if you're smart you cut out the upper lip which does SFA anyway since it isn't pressure-sensitive like the lower one. Besides that, as Muttely said, there's SFA in there, and those oil seals have about as much effect as politely asking your oil to remain inside your fork anyway.
 

armada

Monkey
Aug 27, 2010
196
0
i think the best mood for the boxxer wc is to take out the over compicated rebound and put in the rebound of a race, it has a smaller shaft so it dispalces les oil so it is smoother, also if you have a team take the whole botom out shut out and put in a havier spring that and smothing out your bushrings makes it almost a good fork :D
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,369
1,605
Warsaw :/
i think the best mood for the boxxer wc is to take out the over compicated rebound and put in the rebound of a race, it has a smaller shaft so it dispalces les oil so it is smoother, also if you have a team take the whole botom out shut out and put in a havier spring that and smothing out your bushrings makes it almost a good fork :D
Dude, learn the knobs, than learn to love them ;) WC has had some issues for some people but I still like my fork.
 

ridiculous

Turbo Monkey
Jan 18, 2005
2,907
1
MD / NoVA
whoa! looked in to this a bit further. You learn something new everyday.

check it

<object width='500' height='281'><param name='allowFullScreen' value='true' /><param name='AllowScriptAccess' value='always' /><param name='movie' value='http://www.pinkbike.com/v/166180' /><embed src='http://www.pinkbike.com/v/166180' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' width='500' height='281' allowFullScreen='true' AllowScriptAccess='always' /></embed></object>

http://www.pinkbike.com/video/166180

He starts talking about the mod around 6:20 in to the video.
 
Last edited:

Delimeat

Monkey
Feb 3, 2009
195
0
Canada
whoa! looked in to this a bit further. You learn something new everyday.

check it

<object width='500' height='281'><param name='allowFullScreen' value='true' /><param name='AllowScriptAccess' value='always' /><param name='movie' value='http://www.pinkbike.com/v/166180' /><embed src='http://www.pinkbike.com/v/166180' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' width='500' height='281' allowFullScreen='true' AllowScriptAccess='always' /></embed></object>

http://www.pinkbike.com/video/166180

He starts talking about the mod around 6:20 in to the video.

Yup, I was told that it is something that their racers do to get the forks to move a bit freer, especially now that the Boxxers used 35 mm stanchions. Makes sense as all of the damping oil is sealed within the "cartridge" (stanchtion). Just need to drop your lowers more often for some love'n.
Part of me hesitates to put things like that in there, but its good to get past the basic mumbo jumbo as well.
 

astoria

Chimp
Aug 30, 2009
47
0
i think boxxers are the most bitched forks for 2010. needs internal revisions. i mean, why would you take off the oil seals? WTF? why RS did not use the same oil seals of marz 888 (less stiction)? 2c
 

Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,516
829
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
Why did RS not use the same oil seals of marz 888?
I race for Marz and my team tech cut the inner lip (oil seal?) out of my seals and threw out the foam rings to reduce friction. He knows that I change my oil often enough and said that the stock setup is designed to maximize maintenance intervals for the worst case customers.
 

Wa-Aw

Monkey
Jul 30, 2010
354
0
Philippines
I race for Marz and my team tech cut the inner lip (oil seal?) out of my seals and threw out the foam rings to reduce friction. He knows that I change my oil often enough and said that the stock setup is designed to maximize maintenance intervals for the worst case customers.
Considering how smooth 888's supposedly are, wouldn't that be as redundant as lubing oil?
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
You can take everything out of the right leg........



I'm suprised Bullcrew didn't do this yet?
LOL, its true.... BTW I can have that out of the bike, apart, reshimmed and installed with oil in under 15 minutes now....

No Im in work mode right now I have a TON of stuff Im planning for the kids and holidays, bdays etc so I fell behind! :D

Theres more stuff coming down the pipe though... 2011 is coming fast so its that time again... We all start getting ready for next season, builds and hashing out our wants/needs...
 
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Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
Does anyone actually run their boxxer with no oil seals?

I've noticed dust gets past the wiper pretty easily (esp when mud/water is involved) and they will sometimes leak even if you remove the stanchions from the lowers and reinstall them... they usually need new oil seals after that.

I can't imagine removing the oil seal completely would work out too well, be interesting to hear from someone who has tried it long term.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Does anyone actually run their boxxer with no oil seals?

I've noticed dust gets past the wiper pretty easily (esp when mud/water is involved) and they will sometimes leak even if you remove the stanchions from the lowers and reinstall them... they usually need new oil seals after that.

I can't imagine removing the oil seal completely would work out too well, be interesting to hear from someone who has tried it long term.
I took mine out and just filled the lowers with graphite dry lube.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
The last time I used graphite for lube she wasn't very happy.
 

saruti

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,169
73
Israel
Just made this to my fork and tested it today
Put some 10wt oil under the dust seals for lube and to track unwanted things :-)
The fork feels like it needs more psi. It was very slick
So now I use 60 psi instead of 55
 

RUFNUT

Chimp
Jul 19, 2009
12
0
Ozz
After watching the pinkbike vid and hearing about people cutting lips off seals. I removed both the dust seal and inner oil seals out of my 2011 WC. Putting them over the stantion and running them up and down I found the dust seal to have a lot of stiction and the oil seal was smooth. I removed the steel spring off the lower lip of the dust seal which helped then I cut the lower lip out and it made a great diffrence.
The fork before the mod had a lot of stiction so much that it didnt return all the way to full travel. Now it always retuns all the way and I also went up in air pressure when riding today.
So stiction problem all solved now just have to sort out the lack of low speed compression.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
So stiction problem all solved now just have to sort out the lack of low speed compression.
It's valved quite lightly from factory but very easy to revalve once you work out how to remove the piston.

I recorded the factory valving and the changes I made, might be of some use to you. There is plenty of comp damping on tap now, and I like that the new damper offers much finer increments of adjustment compared to motion control.

Stock Compression

20.0 x 0.15
20.0 x 0.11
16.5 x 0.15
14.0 x 0.15
14.0 x 0.15
10.0 x 0.40

New Compression (running 2 clicks back from closed LSC and HSC)

20.0 x 0.15
20.0 x 0.11
16.5 x 0.15
16.5 x 0.15
14.0 x 0.15
14.0 x 0.15
14.0 x 0.10
10.0 x 0.40

For interest's sake, I found the rebound perfect for me out of the box, and am still running factory settings for my weight!
 

RUFNUT

Chimp
Jul 19, 2009
12
0
Ozz
It's valved quite lightly from factory but very easy to revalve once you work out how to remove the piston.

I recorded the factory valving and the changes I made, might be of some use to you. There is plenty of comp damping on tap now, and I like that the new damper offers much finer increments of adjustment compared to motion control.

Stock Compression

20.0 x 0.15
20.0 x 0.11
16.5 x 0.15
14.0 x 0.15
14.0 x 0.15
10.0 x 0.40

New Compression (running 2 clicks back from closed LSC and HSC)

20.0 x 0.15
20.0 x 0.11
16.5 x 0.15
16.5 x 0.15
14.0 x 0.15
14.0 x 0.15
14.0 x 0.10
10.0 x 0.40

For interest's sake, I found the rebound perfect for me out of the box, and am still running factory settings for my weight!
Ok so the lack of compression is the high speed stack to soft?
I have made some small adjustments to the stack which havent made a lot of change. I will try your settings and see how I go cheers for that.

Just a note that the 2011 stack is two stage.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the shims I added there are ones you can take from the speedstack of an older fork as well which might make it easy for you!

IMO there is no need for a two-stage stack and it would probably just complicate tuning unnecessarily, but yeah basically the stock stack (2010) is just on the soft side, beefing it up a little bit will bring the LSC to life.

I found those changes sufficient for me at ~72kg, although that's using most of the adjustment range as you can see. If you try it, let me know what you think.
 

ridiculous

Turbo Monkey
Jan 18, 2005
2,907
1
MD / NoVA
After watching the pinkbike vid and hearing about people cutting lips off seals. I removed both the dust seal and inner oil seals out of my 2011 WC. Putting them over the stantion and running them up and down I found the dust seal to have a lot of stiction and the oil seal was smooth. I removed the steel spring off the lower lip of the dust seal which helped then I cut the lower lip out and it made a great diffrence.
The fork before the mod had a lot of stiction so much that it didnt return all the way to full travel. Now it always retuns all the way and I also went up in air pressure when riding today.
So stiction problem all solved now just have to sort out the lack of low speed compression.

you wouldn't happen to have a picture of your mods would you?
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
3,787
4,732
Champery, Switzerland
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the shims I added there are ones you can take from the speedstack of an older fork as well which might make it easy for you!

IMO there is no need for a two-stage stack and it would probably just complicate tuning unnecessarily, but yeah basically the stock stack (2010) is just on the soft side, beefing it up a little bit will bring the LSC to life.

I found those changes sufficient for me at ~72kg, although that's using most of the adjustment range as you can see. If you try it, let me know what you think.
Hey Udi, do you not like 2 stage stacks in rear shocks too? Do you not like them for ease of tuning reasons? I find I can get my bike set up for 1-3 big hits in a row with a single stage stack but if it stays rough for an additional 5-6 big impacts I start having issues. I think the 2 stage stacks are excellent if they are set up well. The suspension becomes much smarter and can deal with more situations with more composure, in my opinion. However, I don't do any of the tuning myself. Props for tuning it yourself.:thumb:
 

Steve M

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2007
1,991
45
Whistler
Hey Udi, do you not like 2 stage stacks in rear shocks too? Do you not like them for ease of tuning reasons? I find I can get my bike set up for 1-3 big hits in a row with a single stage stack but if it stays rough for an additional 5-6 big impacts I start having issues. I think the 2 stage stacks are excellent if they are set up well. The suspension becomes much smarter and can deal with more situations with more composure, in my opinion. However, I don't do any of the tuning myself. Props for tuning it yourself.:thumb:
They're a bit messy if you have a HS preload collar like the Boxxer has, because the HS adjuster then starts to have a very distinct influence on, and greater overlap with, the LS damping. I certainly don't write them off entirely but lacking a dyno to actually test stuff properly, I find they just introduce too many variables to tune properly when you're doing it trial and error.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
What socket said, but it would be different on a rear shock because the main piston's stack doesn't have any adjusters affecting it directly (instead your LS/HS adjustment is on a secondary damper in the piggyback) so it would be easier to introduce and tune a multi-stage stack if needed.
 

nybike1971

Chimp
Nov 16, 2006
67
0
Niskayuna, NY
Ok so the lack of compression is the high speed stack to soft?
I have made some small adjustments to the stack which havent made a lot of change. I will try your settings and see how I go cheers for that.

Just a note that the 2011 stack is two stage.
If you have a chance to measure the 2011 HS stack, it would be great to see what it's like. Also if anyone has measured the Avalanche modded HS stack that info would be great to have as well.

Here is a "dyno" chart comparing Udi's HS shim stack compared to the stock one (calculated with Restackor). The LS is set at 1.5 turns in from full open in both cases and HS set to full open.



I have been playing with two-stage stacks but the damping curve I ended up with is very similar to Udi's simpler mod. The increased mid-speed damping allows to run less preload on the HS shim stack and improve performance in choppy terrain without compromising the ability to absorb big hits.