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Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by jonKranked, Aug 4, 2014.
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That should read:
"If it ain't broke, it will be."
speaking of PB.
Levy doesn't like berms and wrote a whole article to tell us. Does anyone give a shit?
Mr Wolf Banger.
HEY! YOU! BEAR FUCKER! DO YOU REQUIRE ASSISTANCE?
Just got around to reading this and loled
Even Trek is throwing shade on the dentists
A good reminder of the level of discourse among pinkbikers.
While this piece is certainly symptomatic of a slow day at Pinkbike, I salute the anti-overgrooming stance he puts forward. Sometimes, people who can only ride flow trails need to be reminded that they suck.
Berms are fun, but so are off-camber rooty corners and East Coast Rox.
I suppose we devolved to the point that this actually needs to be put into 500 words.
totally agree. I miss real DH.
The problem isn't necessarily berms, the problem is lack of vertical berms.
Every middle aged dork these days spends way too much time bitching about trail sanitation and no "technical" riding/trails, technical just being a word that guys with primal scream jerseys use for "slow as fuck". The truth is bikes are so good now, there's not much they don't roll over just by themselves.
I think it makes them feel better to build up this imaginary 'non-technical' rider to make fun of. They'll bitch about a corner being straightened out or a rock getting moved and then go on and on about "well if you can't ride it..." when sometimes what they're describing is someone cleaning out a landing for taking off 40 feet up the trail. But they've never fathomed anyone riding literally 10 times faster than they do.
He's right about one thing though, there's a little too much going on with the exact same trail getting built everywhere. Squiggly bullshit with turns bermed or not all with about an 8ft radius, just relentlessly placed one after another. It's like the idea of a long sight line and good sustained sidehill just doesn't occur to anyone anymore. Some of the worst trail routing I've ever seen is right in levy's back yard......and it certainly ain't new. If anything it's getting way better.
There does seem to be a lot of that blather around here... by middle aged dorks. I think you may be on to something...
The only berms I get on my local trails is the side of the mountain. Unless ruts count as a berm too.
Like others who posted in the PB comments, if you're complaining about too many berms, you're spoiled.
There's an entire sect of mountainbiking that thinks of the sport as "I wonder if I can pedal/roll over that". And since that kind of is what mountainbiking was 25 years ago that's why it's obviously an older demographic. Once you can 'clean a section without dabbing bro' that's it, you're a good mountain biker. It never occurs to them that there's a lot of other riders out there that aren't just making it over things, they're running into this rock, dropping a back wheel in that next dip to keep from getting knocked sideways and then airing straight into the section primal scream is just trying to pedal through. So then they bitch about a shrub getting cleared, when that's exactly the kind of thing you need to do to even get a trail in the first place. If all these dwids really wanted technicalriding™, they wouldn't even ride on trails
Levy's just jumpin on that train like everyone else.
You know that flat sandy boulder strewn mess at the beginning/end of white's ranch? I've always wanted to go in there with a rock bar and clear that out a little. Just for the mantrums that would ensue on the innernets. That section is stupid and it's only like that because it was a pain to have cleared out in the first place when the trail went in. But oh! the sanitation™!
there's a local trail network that the xc wankers all LOVE. the trails are literally just a boulder field of chunder. it's all you can do to keep pedaling over it. i rode it twice (two diff sections), never again.
this is why i like to ride deep in the wilderness where mother nature does the "trailwork"
locally, on the trail that i work on, i've put in 4 or 5 berms over the course of 9 miles or so. ot's the most "tech," all-handcut trail in the area and it gives you a moment to maintain fun speed every once in a while and adds some fun flavor. in our part of the east coast not too many bermednout flow trails in general...heck, the outcry when lower black was "sanitized" a few years ago in pisgah was deafening...
All new trails here are built following the IMBA book - buffed, twisty, smooth, not challenging, not allowing for much speed or air, with flat or off-cambed corners for water control, and shared with dog walkers or weekend hiking warriors. There are no rocks or roots left on those for launching off. We don't have enough verticals to make those fun. They are mostly boring and rideable on CX bikes and you can take your family with a stroller on them. The old school trails, OTOH, still have some fun left - drops, short steep sections and rollers, rocks to launch off. Those features slow certain groups of riders down (no, they don't build smooth landers around these parts), who in turn make braids or dumb down said features and make them more IMBA like.
Since no new technical trails with features or drops over 4" tall are built anymore, I have little sympathy for trail sanitizers. I am quite sure that 20 years from now, the only legal MTB trails left here will be paved.
20 years from now? this image is over a year old already
Our network is decidedly inclusive. There is long runs of only single track w/ road sections. All dirt road, residential and, maintained with courtesy.
The main section - Town Loops - never attains a detached from rigors of society feel. Nor do I, but I digress.
It is multi use, year round access so there has been made visible shallow banked turns to great numbers. I am unable to ride them if I am not on my rigid Surly. Maybe my CX bike would rail the corners.
It's all an exercise in staying current re: modern trails. The builders here definitely keep an eye on the more rugged single track within Town, it'd have to be near capacity however in as much as further designs.
We're fortunate to be allowed the integration and visibility we have. Am certain it will all come around.
That section is stupid indeed on the way up. I think it's fun on the way back though.
You know... if you come in hot enough, you can just clear most of that.
I agree, though - that section is pretty dumb.
I think that this may be why my tires have been getting heavier and heavier... used to be I'd pick my way down Deer Creek, but when I got a "modern geo" bike awhile back... it was way more fun to just come in at mach-looney and smash the shit out of everything. Which immediately resulted in pinch-flats. Lots and lots of pinch flats. The stock Nevegals probably didn't help initially.
Right now Dirtfest is going on. It's an annual event by Dirt Rag that has 2-3,000 attendees. There's 30 miles of trails designed by imba and built by the army corps of engineers using bobcats and other industrial machinery. Grade reversals galore, or as most users call them, "jumps". You can ride a CX bike to a 170mm bike and love it. There's 4 berms built on one trail, but they're not in the correct place to be utilized correctly. People from the East Coast Rox states LOVE this place! It is great! It's rated as "Thee place" to ride in PA. It's a trail system that's annually voted as the best in PA. The turns at Raystown can be a 300 yard radius (not kidding) to some 20' turns. There's very few switchbacks in the 30 miles. EVERYBODY LOVES these trails... Unless you're local.
It's rocky with steep climbs around PA. But Raystown has long grade reversals that aren't steep to get you back out of a decent. You can ride 12 miles in 40 minutes and would only have minimal effort on one trail to climb here and there. 16-18 mile rides in 1:30. But it's repetitive. Those easy climbs are repetitive grade reversals for a mile up hill. You pump (or as others do, jump) every one of those on the way down. All 400 of them.
At Creek I can ride Utah 6-7 different times a day and be so focused at 6-7 mph that I won't get tired of it. Platty is its own thing. I won't get tired of it there either. But repetitive jump lines with berms are all the same. They're made with excavation equipment and can be 40' wide. It gets boring fast.
Meanwhile... on the Front Range.
if you read between the lines, it says a lot about the state of other riding options in PA.
I think it says a lot about the type of riders in PA. Creek is voted #1 in Jersey and Kingdom is #1 in VT.
I live in PA. it's more that there just aren't any better options.
Voted #1 trail = Billboard awards of MTB.
EAST COAST BITCH
so many trails like that out here in MA. What the fuck were you thinking going up over the boulder that's on top of the hill with no run up and no run out? None of the trails out here flow for more than 5ft.
Which is why I let it live. From 1500 miles away.
Yeah, that section is terrible. Although, I imagine when that trail was built, it was flat, smooth dirt. Years of erosion has turned it into the wack-a-mole that it is. Example: one part (at the very top for those that ride it often) got especially rocky a couple years ago and an alternative line developed that was smooth and easier. Now the alternative line is super rough a couple years later. I'm all for "sanitizing" that part. It can still be rocky, just filled in with boulders where it doesn't erode noticeably every year.
And, in case any isn't familiar with White Ranch and goes to ride there, just remember Jesus says it's a sin to climb Longhorn.
Every time I've ridden there, it felt like a sin to not just turn around and ride down belcher. That's gotta be some good high speed smashing.
It is, but Longhorn is still better, imo.
Belcher is marginal. Someone convinced me to do a Belcher shuttle once. I should have just done Longhorn twice.
Oh - and while climbing the north branch of Longhorn is a sin... climbing the south branch should be encouraged.
You mean instead of riding Whippletree out?
Hot Take coming here folks.....
Kingdom trails = biggest buildup and letdown of any trail system I've ridden.
'mon down to cackalacka...i heard Tasli is...EPIC.
So pretty much like AZ, but with little baby rocks.