[Toshi]

So the last thing I was going to look into was 5th wheel trailers, but I find [... them] gaudy, heavy, expensive, and generally gross.

[travel trailer junk elided]

Of course, actual ownership, like ownership of a "real" RV, would probably involve chasing down a million leaks and electrical faults, but it sure looks nice on paper. Er, on an LCD screen. Something like that.

 

[Toshi]

As one might gather from this recent slew of motor-driven posts, I haven't been riding the e-bike in to work. I'm still gun-shy from the run-in with the car, and it's cold. Not Canadian true cold, but cold enough that it's an easy choice to be in a heated metal box, even if that means altering my schedule to match that of my wife's, at least until the car donated by my parents arrives. Given my recent parking boon at work--free, guaranteed parking really changes the "is it worth it to drive to work?" calculus!--this isn't going to change any time soon, either.

Perhaps in the balmy springtime I'll work off some of my apprehension and in turn work off winter hibernating-fat, but until that season arrives I'll be burning gasoline like everyone else, and, as a result, will be posting red blooded burn-moar-fossil-fuel thought experiments left and right.

(I still have half an eye on the 2013 Leaf, what with its leather interior and heat pump, and will be test driving a Tesla Model S tomorrow, so I haven't gone full redneck. Yet. Who knows, maybe I or Jessica will fall head over heels for the Tesla. Stranger things have happened.)

Leaf with leather

Not a Leaf

 

[Toshi]

I... will be test driving a Tesla Model S tomorrow, so I haven't gone full redneck. Yet. Who knows, maybe I or Jessica will fall head over heels for the Tesla. Stranger things have happened.)

Not a Leaf

So we drove it today. And we liked it. My conclusions:

Both Jessica and I came away from the test drive more impressed with the Model S than we thought we'd be, and that's no faint praise as we we came into it well informed. She wants to wait for the Model X for herself, in hopes that it would address her concerns (low back seat cushion height, "3rd row" jumper seats only good for pre-teens, outward visibility) but thinks that a Model S would be a great car for me: Rewarding on the daily commute, big enough to ferry the imminent kid/future additional kids in a pinch, and unique enough to tickle my funny bone.

We would also have to bank on having something large and fossil fueled available for long trips with the whole crew, of course, but after driving the Model I think springing for such a garage might just be worth the price of admission (at least at the $60k before tax credit level of the base 40 kWh car).

A Model S with the small battery pack would be twice the price of, say, a Nissan Leaf--a car that I have test driven and like in its own right. The long and short of this review is that the Model S indeed feels like twice the car.

Read the complete tome here: https://plus.google.com/u/0/115479414905422234350/posts/6feB8sj51Y7

 

[Toshi]

So I've figured out how to write the Tonka truck out of my ever-changing storyline. (This was part of more general middle of night hypomanic mental cogitation, the complete and sordid details of which you can read here if morbidly curious or insomniac yourself.)

The long and short of it is that:

- after driving the Tesla I feel pretty confident that we'll have at least one BEV in the household, if not two
- ability to tow such a BEV to get it serviced isn't needed with plans like Tesla's service-at-one's-home Ranger service
- BEV + EVSE in the garage + NG standby generator == ability to get around when the grid is down and gasoline is not readily available, assuming the roads are clear
- if the roads aren't clear then the below would be my much-cheaper-than-a-F-350-dually backup plan:

+

+

 

[Toshi]

after driving the Tesla I feel pretty confident that we'll have at least one BEV in the household, if not two

Thinking about it a bit more, I don't think I can justify a Model S of any flavor for myself in the near term, but that doesn't mean we won't have an EV or two, as per the above.

I still do want at least one alt-fuel vehicle in the household, on the other hand, and our seat time in both the Tesla and the Leaf confirm that we like EVs. (CNG made for a great thought experiment but the reality of the Civic or 3/4 ton-on-up pickup choice is harsh.)

A more sane sequence of vehicles I could justify and afford alike might be more like this:

1) Buy or lease a Leaf in 1Q 2014.

Said Leaf would be a 2013 or 2014 model, so would have leather as per the photo below, the 6.6 kW charger, and the heat pump (all but the 6.6 kW charger confirmed new features for 2013 in Japan so hopefully on the 2013 and almost certainly on a 2014 US market Leaf).

We'd keep the Prius and would trade in the Acura as part of the Leaf transaction, although I suspect the Prius would largely remain parked in the driveway except for driving to distant biking trailheads and ski mountains.

2) Re-evaluate our vehicle needs later on.

Once I'm feeling financially settled as an attending (so at least late 2014) we would reevaluate our situation in terms of number of kids in the picture, financial stability, etc.

By that point Jessica might want a standard gasoline minivan, Toyota could have announced a PHEV Sienna, Mitsubishi may have started selling their fabled PHEV Outlander, Tesla could have gone tits up, we could have already sunk all available capital into building a McMansion energy efficient modern abode, or any other number of things could have happened.

Starting with a Leaf in just over a year seems like a good first step, though.

 

[HAB]

I spent the last two hours shopping for Scouts. I have this stupid idea that I want a project. Someone stop me.

 

[Toshi]

That'd be fun. Or a Bronco of the same vintage. Mmmm ICON Bronco:

 

[HAB]

For reasons I can't explain I want a Scout over a Bronco for sure. Because... well not racecar. But, uh, for some reason.

 

[HAB]

http://medford.craigslist.org/cto/3362468953.html

 

[Toshi]

http://medford.craigslist.org/cto/3362468953.html

That'd be a project for sure. I favor the '96 Bronco, OJ Simpson style, along those lines. 5.8, OBD II, still looks old school enough.

 

[Toshi]

[brief consideration of a Chevy Spark EV elided. Too small and crappy to seriously warrant consideration despite that 400 ft-lbs. of torque and Oregon availability.]

 

[Toshi]

Imagine the above in white with a slushbox instead of the 6-speed manual and you get the idea of what's coming to me, in theory. [...]

Why the "in theory" above? The auto shipping company hasn't assigned a truck or driver to the car. It's sitting in Medford today, 9 days after my parents dropped it off. The shipping company claims that it'll be on my doorstep on December 1, next Saturday, but I don't see how that's possible at this point.

Needless to say, Dependable Auto Shippers missed their Dec 1 deadline quite badly. It's Dec 8 today with a projected ETA of Dec 9 on DAS's tracking website yet the car has sat in Iowa for the last few days, apparently waiting for a truck for the next leg. (It's sat for a few days each in Medford, OR; Lakewood, WA; some town in Utah; and now Iowa.)

Car shippers... gah. I got a moving quote (as in household goods) today for our Seattle move, and the guy recommended a different car shipping company. Perhaps we'll give that one a try when carting the Acura back west, and will ship it, say, a month early...

Relevant to this Acura, the resounding normalcy of my life hit me over Thanksgiving break [...] it really is a bit of a letdown for me when I realize that my grand plans won't come to fruition. There will be no off-the-wall EV or CNG vehicle in my life in the mid-term future.

A more sane sequence of vehicles I could justify and afford alike might be more like this:

1) Buy or lease a Leaf in 1Q 2014.

2) Re-evaluate our vehicle needs later on.

The quoted post above, of Leaf planning (a la April 2012 when I last came up with this idea), shows that I'll still be able to sneak in a little craziness into my plans. The Leaf lease/purchase deal is Jessica-approved--again, recall that she likes EVs greatly in her own right--and should be financially and logistically feasible.



My moaning was premature, in other words. I still may have my free time sucked away by kid-rearing responsibilities, though. We shall see.

Anyway, relevant to point 2 above, of re-evaluating vehicular needs later on (for a large people carrier, I'm assuming), I initially had the thought (now edited out) of a Tesla Model X. Looking more at the X and its layout, thanks to prodding from SharedSkittles, I've become convinced that it wouldn't actually make a good people hauler, besides being so incredibly expensive.

I thought about alternatives immediately, of course.

My first thought was of a Nissan NV passenger van, the same one that I unsuccessfully tried to rent in cargo-van form this past week. Sure, it'd have space aplenty, with the default 4 row seating layout. 4 rows! One can pull out the 4th row and scoot the 2nd and 3rd rows back for an incredible amount of legroom, cargo room, and relatively easy access to the back rows as compared to a minivan.

On the other hand, it's also, uh, over 20 feet long. Yeah, I don't think Jessica would willingly drive that, rear view cameras or not. It doesn't have any alt-fuel options, either, being a non-domestic product.

So what about the domestics? Could I convince Jessica to drive a Suburban if it were CNG bi-fuel? That bit about Jessica's preferences is a separate question for a later date, but for now I'll content myself with seeing if there are EPA certified bi-fuel conversions for domestic minivans or the Suburban/Yukon XL. (I'm pretty sure there exists an option for the 'burban given that the Yukon non-XL is supported as evinced by previous posts by yours truly from last month.)

 

[Toshi]

So what about the domestics? Could I convince Jessica to drive a Suburban if it were CNG bi-fuel? That bit about Jessica's preferences is a separate question for a later date, but for now I'll content myself with seeing if there are EPA certified bi-fuel conversions for domestic minivans or the Suburban/Yukon XL. (I'm pretty sure there exists an option for the 'burban given that the Yukon non-XL is supported as evinced by previous posts by yours truly from last month.)

So that "later date" turned into this afternoon, and the ever-patient Jessica said that she'd rather have a minivan than an SUV, wouldn't want a dedicated CNG (and, by extension, EV) minivan, wouldn't want a Panther platform large car (e.g. Crown Vic or Town Car), and would rather have an OEM alt-fuel product than a conversion if possible.

Leaving the vaporware Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV aside, that then leaves us with what EPA certified conversions exist for either used, exempt, or initially CARB compliant base vehicles.

Are there minivans on that list? Let's see. Data from http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/fuels/altfuels/documents/certified-conversions.xls and http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/fuels/altfuels/afc-intermediate-age-notification-list.xls .

Bingo! NatGasCar has a certified bi-fuel conversion for the 3.6 liter Pentastar V6, in particular for the 2011 and 2012 Grand Caravan, Routan, and Town & Country. (Incidentally, they also have a certified bi-fuel conversion for the 2009 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4WD with the 3.7 liter V6. That could be a guilt-free and cheap-to-purchase and -to-run future way to get me up in the hills. Hmm. Update: The 3.7L is apparently a dog, and it's further hobbled by only being available with a single range 4WD system. Lame, Jeep, lame.)



Key stats:

- Standard Fuel Capacity – 11.4 Gasoline Gallons Equivalent (GGE)
- Type IV NGV2:2007 Certified CNG Cylinder Packages
- EPA Certified to Tier 2 Bin 4 EPA emission standards for Bi-Fuel Operation
- OBD-II Compliant

From this Popular Mechanics article it can be seen that said type IV tank lives behind the 3rd row seats. Not ideal, but the tank is huge and has to go somewhere, I suppose.

It also appears that WorldCNG, the Seattle CNG outfitter with whom I'd corresponded about the Tahoe bi-fuel conversion by Impco, also carries NatGasCar's products, in particular the minivan conversions.

Seattle, Washington, March 27, 2012 – World CNG, a company specializing in alternative fuel packaging and applications, today announced a partnership with NatGasCar, the Cleveland-based natural gas vehicle conversion systems developer, to immediately begin production on the 2011-2012 Dodge Caravan CNG. Available in both dedicated and bi-fuel models, the Dodge Caravan CNG offers fifth passenger capability and generous cargo space. The base tank package includes a single rear-mounted 11.4 GGE composite cylinder capable of providing an estimated range of over 250 miles.

[...]

Every conversion system meets all standards and compliances including NFPA-52, NGI2, and FMVSS-304. Additional tank packages are available to meet individual customer’s needs.

Coolness. I don't mind the Chrysler minivans at all, besides their hit or miss reliability reputation, and would totally rock a bi-fuel CNG one over a gasoline minivan from another marque.

 

[DaveW]

Re the Nissan people mover?
Why do you think you'll need something that huge?
Are you really going to be hauling that many people/that much junk around?

 

[Toshi]

No, it is ridiculously huge. No need for something that size, 240" inches+ long.

The reason it came up was that Jessica and I were looking at videos of how people can get to the third row on minivans, and weren't impressed by what we saw. It takes a small, limber kid to get there, but the problem is that adults are often relegated back there if the middle row is taken up with child seats...

Anyway, with that crazy NV van the seats are set up like a commercial van, since, uh, it is one. That means there's an aisle lateral to rows 2 and 3 through which adults can shuffle. That aisle would only work really well for adults with the high roof version, which sadly is not offered in passenger van guise from the factory.

We're thinking 3 kids eventually, provided Thing 1 due in February turns out ok. 3 kids would definitely warrant a minivan-esque vehicle, imo.



The Sprinter with the high roof would solve the entry/egress issue, with the only catch that it's also ridiculously big. I'd rock one in the proper circumstances, though, which probably would never occur in my lifetime. Note big door and stand-up-inside height:

 

[gonefirefightin]

The price makes me cringe

 

[Toshi]

For the Sprinter? Yeah, I just speced out a "short" wheelbase high roof one at around $57k. Yowch. That's a lot for a turbo-4, albeit a diesel one.

 

[gonefirefightin]

Looked into the transit or nissans version?

 

[Toshi]

Oh, I don't actually need something that big. This was just brainstorming alternatives to a minivan if/when we get to the 3 kids stage of the game. It's interesting to me that there's no "in between" van any more, sort of like the old short wheelbase short body Ram vans:

I think the aspect ratio is screwed up in that photo, making it seem shorter and taller than in reality, but you get my point.

 

[Toshi]

I [...] would totally rock a bi-fuel CNG [Chrysler] over a gasoline minivan from another marque.

Jessica turns out to be not so enthused about a CNG vehicle for herself, for no particular reason, so that idea's out. I suppose the Leaf's Polar Bear commercial was just too cute to stand, and now she's soured on anything but electrics:

As a side note, this is all just as well, since a CNG setup is actually far pricer than that for an EV at the bottom of the market due to equipment costs being higher (VRA >> EVSE) and the current lack of Federal or state level tax incentives for CNG vehicles/conversions and infrastructure.

So my post-Leaf vehicular fantasies can now be free of the self-imposed CNG-convertible-vehicle-only constraint. (I have to be one of a select few people out there who fantasize about vehicles within certain, fixed constraints. Call me freakin' Data. )

In other words, the game's back on, and the playing field is no longer limited to domestic vehicles. I'm not going to worry about what Jessica may want for herself post-Leaf since, without constraints, she could conceivably pick anything.

Instead I think I'll revisit my old flame, 4x4s for my own theoretical skiing/biking/forest exploring use.

What's to keep me from immediately jumping back to the LX 570 that I decided was optimal? Well, the Leaf, that's what. If the majority of my street miles will be in the Leaf then said 4x4 would necessarily be driven less. For an occasional use vehicle I'm going to give myself a fake-money budget of, say, $20k, and that clearly undercuts the LX's bottom line. Time to use some of the afternoon ahead prior to dinner out in Queens to exercise the imagination-neurons a bit...

 

[Toshi]

Needless to say, Dependable Auto Shippers missed their Dec 1 deadline quite badly. It's Dec 8 today with a projected ETA of Dec 9 on DAS's tracking website yet the car has sat in Iowa for the last few days, apparently waiting for a truck for the next leg. (It's sat for a few days each in Medford, OR; Lakewood, WA; some town in Utah; and now Iowa.)

As of today DAS reports that the Acura is on the east coast! It's at the Linden, NJ depot. They are supposed to deliver it to my door (8 days ago, mind you). Now it's looking possible that it'll be in my paws by the end of the week. Score.

Update: Upon talking with DAS on Monday they say that it'll be here on Wednesday.

 

[Toshi]

[Montero musing elided. Just not attractive.]

 

[Toshi]

Jessica turns out to be not so enthused about a CNG [minivan] for herself, for no particular reason, so that idea's out.

As a side note, this is all just as well, since a CNG setup is actually far pricer than that for an EV at the bottom of the market due to equipment costs being higher (VRA >> EVSE) and the current lack of Federal or state level tax incentives for CNG vehicles/conversions and infrastructure.

I reached out to WorldCNG, the Seattle CNG shop, again for answers on the CNG Caravan/Town & Country conversion:

1) Is the third row of seats still in place for full seating capacity?
Yes the third row of seats is still in place for full seating capacity, however the stow and go capacity is lost for this back row.

2) Assuming this to be so, can the third row still fold when not in use? I imagine the stow and go flat floor is gone since the CNG tank is living back there.
See above

3) Do you have a price for an installed system with the standard single rear mounted type IV tank?
The price for the conversion including installation can vary by a few hundred dollars. This can range from $12,500-$13,500. Where are you located? As well as what is the year/make/model that you are looking to convert?

4) Any issues with registering the car in Washington, since we are a CARB state for model year 2009 and newer vehicles and your conversion isn't CARB certified?
I am assuming that this vehicle will be registered in the state of Washington. Although Washington does follow the CARB laws for vehicles, Washington actually follows the EPA laws for aftermarket vehicle conversions to Alternative Fuels. Therefore the EPA certified conversion systems are all certified in Washington.

$13k for a conversion + $9k for a VRA + ongoing VRA maintenance is too much if we're going to have an EV or two in the household anyway. Sorry, CNG: You need more incentives/tax breaks before you make sense!

 

[Toshi]

As of today DAS reports that the Acura is on the east coast! It's at the Linden, NJ depot. They are supposed to deliver it to my door (8 days ago, mind you). Now it's looking possible that it'll be in my paws by the end of the week. Score.

Update: Upon talking with DAS on Monday they say that it'll be here on Wednesday.

DAS finally delivered the Acura this morning, 11 days behind schedule. At least it made it here before we leave for Christmas break in Seattle next week.

With its arrival we've now reverted back to being a conventional two cars for two drivers household, and indeed until we return this crappy Fiesta rental currently parked out front at 6 PM we have three cars for our use! Ooh, look at us with our decadent lifestyle…

I wasted almost an hour just now driving to and from the inconveniently located DMV in a futile attempt to get the Acura registered in our names, only realizing en route that the paperwork I bore wasn't complete (it needs Jessica's signature a few places, plus she grabbed the insurance card when she took the Acura to go teach her lessons this afternoon).

Gah.

Another trip it'll be tomorrow, and this time I'll have my ducks in a row. Until then the car's still officially registered to my parents but has been insured to me as of 12:01 AM this morning. Even though it's only worth maybe $5k I opted for comprehensive and collision insurance. We're only going to have it for just over a year (ed: or two), and it'd be imprudent to chance losing all the gifted value inherent in it just to save $250/yr in premiums.

Update: It's registered, insured, and now officially kosher. Well, at least after I get it inspected: 10 days to do so from date of registration. I also have photographic proof that it exists. From the driveway this afternoon:

 

[dump]

Ford Transit/Tourneo Connect, seems to be relatively popular here in Canada.

 

[Toshi]

Ford Transit/Tourneo Connect, seems to be relatively popular here in Canada.

Was this a statement without context, or an answer to an unquoted question? Inquiring minds wish to know

 

[dump]

Hey... yeah, pretty much w/o context. I skimmed a bit, and just threw it out there. Reading a bit more, it doesn't seem to quite fit the bill.

 

[Toshi]

Hey... yeah, pretty much w/o context. I skimmed a bit, and just threw it out there. Reading a bit more, it doesn't seem to quite fit the bill.

I mentioned the 2014 Transit Connect last page (4896). In its new 3 row guise it'd make for a reasonable mini-minivan. It's hard to find a role outside of delivery services for the current one, though, although it does have CNG conversions available...

 

[Toshi]

Latest reply to my periodic emails to Toyota USA regarding RAV4 EV support:

Dear Toshi Clark,

Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.

We appreciate your interest in the RAV4 EV and apologize for your concerns regarding dealer support in your area.

As it takes time to drain[sic] all dealers, perhaps there will be extended dealer support in Spring 2013.

However, we apologize that we do not have any announced plans regarding the availability of the RAV4 EV, and or dealer support in your area, http://pressroom.toyota.com/releases/2012+toyota+rav4ev+california.htm .

You may wish to sign up on our web site http://www.toyota.com/rav4ev/receive-updates.html , or visit our Newsroom USA Newsroom site http://pressroom.toyota.com/ to receive updates.

Your email has been documented at our National Headquarters. If we can be of further assistance, please feel free to contact us, www.toyota.com/help.

Tiffany Harris
Toyota Customer Experience

 

[stevew]

This Airstream looks much more my style.

airstream...no fifth wheel needed...

 

[Toshi]

Put a muffler on that thing, European yokels! Amusing idea, though. If I were to go nutso expedition/penis stroking vehicle with a MAN chassis I'd just leave it like this:

Somehow it reminds me of the Jawa sandcrawlers:

 

[stevew]

there is a aussie who built something like that.....

here..

write up...

built by a nature photographer.

 

[DaveW]

Seen a few like that down here Toshi, built on ex NZ army Unimogs.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

hey toshi, serious question

my sister got some health issues 3-4 years ago, starting with anemia. after like 2 years of "treament" and god knows how many different diagnosis in venezuela, she decided to have some medical tests done in Lima, and she was diagnosed with a kidney tumor 2 years ago, while pregnant.
went for the surgery, and it was cancer. the partial nephrectomy was done in Venezuela (were x-rays are still state of the art imaging technology). the diagnosis was made in Lima, but she opted to have the surgery in venezuela, after giving birth, since she, and her family, lives there.

anyways.... 2 years have passed, but she still has anemia. am no doctor, but am extraordinarily unpleased with the way her care has been handled in venezuela. her primary physician is an urologist (no oncologist where she lives), and she has access, at most, to x-rays and some old ass mri machine with not enough "resolution". (her "good enough for diagnosis" mri was done in lima, after months/years of mis-diagnosis in venezuela).
at this point, am worried about this issues being leukemia, or the symptoms of mets in some other parts of her body. problem is, in Peru they couldnt rule it out, while in venezuela they have (although they have not done any tests besides a local tac). so we have no respectable medical opinion on the matter.

anyways, we are quite worried and doctors in venezuela have no clue, beside just giving her transfusions and iron pills. since medical care in her neck on the woods is poor, we have thought about going to anderson md. (mostly because i know a few local people who went there, and because i´ve been to houston for business and have seen their ads)

i have contacted them, and they ask for a $26k deposit for a diagnosis for primary kidney cancer. i have asked for more details on what this includes (dr fees, imaging, tests, hospital fees?) and what not, and am waiting for the answer, while we are getting together all the medical reports and stuff in order to arrange for travel.
but it seems to me fairly steep, considering even the most expensive imaging in Lima (pet, mri or whatever, am no doctor) has not costed more than $3000 each so far.

any idea what is the industry standard (in the US) for what "primary kidney cancer diagnosis" includes?
any other medical center we should consider???? any recomendations?

 

[Toshi]

I have no idea about pricing, especially for out of country consultations, as it were. MD Anderson is an excellent place but there's no shortage of excellent cancer centers. Memorial Sloan Kettering in NYC, Seattle Cancer Care Alliance, etc. Might not hurt to shop around and see if $26k is crazy. What it includes or not is a huge variable. Out of pocket costs for MRIs and such can easily be $3k or so so if it includes all that, a PET/CT, whatever, plus the office fees then maybe not so insane. Maybe.

Imaging wise, the tests I'd want to see to diagnose primary or metastatic kidney disease would be a three phase CT urogram and a PET/CT. I'm not sure what MRI would bring to the table additionally.

 

[Toshi]

We're only going to have [the Acura] for just over a year

Update: Probably going to keep it for maybe a year or two after all, including shipping it back to Seattle in May or June. See post #4961.

 

[Toshi]

[snow tire digression elided. Hankook4lyfeyo]

 

[Toshi]

Update 2: caved in and bought tires for the thing in hopes of curing the pull to the right.

 

[Westy]

Have you considered what lug nuts you will use? You should, torque specs too.

 

[Toshi]

Only ricers use aftermarket lug nuts, sheesh. (I'm down with manufacturer recommended torque specs, too. On the other hand, I bet my Harbor Freight torque wrench is inaccurate.)



[musing about the folly of shipping a low-value car elided]

Update 2: On the other hand, I think it'd be some weird offensive gesture to my parents to sell it so soon, especially since they paid for the shipping out here (i.e. actively spent money to give it to me instead of merely handing over the title).

I think instead I'll find the cheapest car shipping company out there through uship or and then sell or trade it in as a "down payment" on a leased Leaf per the below post.