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Trump's Presidency 2017 - 2021

jonKranked

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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dan-o said:
Specifically, what are you outraged about beyond the fact that trump is an asshole?
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that he's a chauvinist, possibly a rapist, a racist and a bigot, proudly ignorant of many of the skills required to do the job of president, a blatant liar. oh not to mention the growing body of evidence that he colluded with a foreign gov't to undermine the American democratic election process (not that there aren't flaws with it, but the Russia shit is a whole different ballgame).

he's using his position to advance his (and his family's) business interests.

the fact that he has a history of shady business dealings with russians in both the real estate world and the casino that bore his name don't help his case.

dan-o said:
What end game are you hoping for?
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removal from an office that he's clearly unqualified for. i wouldn't mind exile, but that's unlikely. maybe his head will explode?

dan-o said:
Do you think that will leave the country in a better place or throw it further into a tailspin
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it'll get worse before it gets better, but you gotta take that first step sometime.

dan-o said:
This thread reads like the passengers cheering on the captain of the titanic.
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if the captain was a racist self serving xenophobe.
 
JohnE

JohnE

filthy rascist
May 13, 2005
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Front Range, dude...
Westy said:
I see it more like trying to dump a drunken bus driver out the door. We may be better off with no one at the wheel and no foot on the throttle than a madman in control of both.

First of all if he did collude with Russians to affect the election it is against the law. I consider that to be a pretty big law.
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I hesitate to say this, but I have my doubts that HE actually was colluding. The traitorous bastards behind him, yes. His idiot kids, yes. But I dont think he is smart enough to actually execute such things, and the way he consistently insists that he did nothing wrong makes me think that 1) He didnt and 2) He is covering his ass by saying such things. Like the weasley HS kid at the party who knew there were shenanigans going on, and wants to be known as being at the party but nto being responsible for it when he pleads to the Cops or his parents..."I wasnt smoking/drinking/ carrying on...but so and so was, and such and such, what do you want to know about what THEY were doing?"
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
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JohnE said:
I hesitate to say this, but I have my doubts that HE actually was colluding. The traitorous bastards behind him, yes. His idiot kids, yes. But I dont think he is smart enough to actually execute such things, and the way he consistently insists that he did nothing wrong makes me think that 1) He didnt and 2) He is covering his ass by saying such things. Like the weasley HS kid at the party who knew there were shenanigans going on, and wants to be known as being at the party but nto being responsible for it when he pleads to the Cops or his parents..."I wasnt smoking/drinking/ carrying on...but so and so was, and such and such, what do you want to know about what THEY were doing?"
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if he was aware of such efforts - despite not being the one to initiate them or direct others to do so - he is still complicit if he failed to halt them (which seems to be the case).
 
Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
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JohnE said:
I hesitate to say this, but I have my doubts that HE actually was colluding. The traitorous bastards behind him, yes. His idiot kids, yes. But I dont think he is smart enough to actually execute such things, and the way he consistently insists that he did nothing wrong makes me think that 1) He didnt and 2) He is covering his ass by saying such things. Like the weasley HS kid at the party who knew there were shenanigans going on, and wants to be known as being at the party but nto being responsible for it when he pleads to the Cops or his parents..."I wasnt smoking/drinking/ carrying on...but so and so was, and such and such, what do you want to know about what THEY were doing?"
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Yes, usually people who deny things the hardest are usually innocent, like Lance Armstrong.

I find his pro Russia policy rather inexplicable under normal circumstances. I questioned this well before any rumor of collusion arose..

How does someone who takes an extreme hard line stance with every single one of the US's enemies and most of our allies think it is a good idea to cuddle up to a country who is at best our adversary and in the worst case our straight up enemy?

How does someone who is essentially an isolationist with the rest of the world want to open up relations with our enemy?

How does someone who claims to want to strengthen our military might try to weaken Nato?

How does every single one of his major advisors from early in his campaign seem to have ties and relationships with Russia?

It is possible that cabal of Russian conspirators were able to surround him and convince him of a pro-Russian policy, but none of his advisors seem to have been able to convince him of anything else? Perhaps they were able to take advantage of his seeming adoration of Putin's dictator like status.
 
Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,442
20,247
Sleazattle
jonKranked said:
if he was aware of such efforts - despite not being the one to initiate them or direct others to do so - he is still complicit if he failed to halt them (which seems to be the case).
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A leader is responsible for all that occurs under him/her. As they say, you are either coaching it or letting it happen.
 
Adventurous

Adventurous

Starshine Bro
Mar 19, 2014
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dan-o said:
A question for everyone salivating over the Mueller investigation:

Specifically, what are you outraged about beyond the fact that trump is an asshole?
What end game are you hoping for?
Do you think that will leave the country in a better place or throw it further into a tailspin?

This thread reads like the passengers cheering on the captain of the titanic.
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I think the same sentiment that, on the right, helped propel Trump to power is the same dynamic that is, on the left, opposing all facets of his presidency. He won, in part, by pandering to the "little guy" left behind by Washington bureaucrats and a political system that didn't hear them. The Mueller investigation is an ongoing saga in the ways that the rich and powerful are detached from the rest of society and have no qualms about using their positions of power and influence to enrich themselves and their donors at our expense. Honestly, this was a partially self inflicted wound; had he not chosen a billionaire dream team of cabinet secretaries I doubt the blood trail would be nearly as long.

End game, in my mind (regardless of how long or fruitful/fruitless the Trump presidency is), is hoping the pendulum swings back from the extremes. Politics has been on such an incredibly polarized trajectory in recent memory that every is issue is a partisan issue where there's no sense of compromise, only right and wrong. We've been heading down this path for the past few decades and I think only now is it really testing the bounds of our democracy.

Will the country be in a better place at the conclusion of the Trump presidency? Almost certainly not, he hasn't shown the demeanor necessary to heal some of the gaping wounds we as a society have. His presidency is the culmination of the belief that the system is broken, so let's light the powder keg and pick up the pieces. Hopefully when this is all said and done, we can come together as the great country we do have the potential to be and move forward.
 
dan-o

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
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Thanks for the replies.
I agree with pretty much everything you've said.

The policy issues/dismantling Obama-everything annoys me but I expected as much from any GOP president.
Trump is just doing it with an extra helping of hate and exuberance.

The russia thing fascinates me.
Not so much the fact that Russia was trying to corrupt our election, that's a given at any time, but rather the willful ignorance of trumps entourage in their engagement with them. It must've been reminiscent of the Generals playing the Globetrotters.
If there's real evidence of collusion heads will/should roll but I honestly don't think trumps people were smart enough to pull that off. Russia isn't so stupid that they'd leave blatant evidence of their efforts.
Hearing Trump voters who consider themselves 'patriots' brush off the Russia thing as no big deal amazes me.
The ignorance is astounding with this crowd, most of whom were raised under the spectre of the cold war like myself.

IMO, this country's political future is FUBAR without a gutting of both parties.
I've reached a point of apathy that I can't think of a single politician I can get behind, other than to push them down a flight of stairs.
 
Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,442
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Sleazattle
dan-o said:
Thanks for the replies.
I agree with pretty much everything you've said.

The policy issues/dismantling Obama-everything annoys me but I expected as much from any GOP president.
Trump is just doing it with an extra helping of hate and exuberance.

The russia thing fascinates me.
Not so much the fact that Russia was trying to corrupt our election, that's a given at any time, but rather the willful ignorance of trumps entourage in their engagement with them. It must've been reminiscent of the Generals playing the Globetrotters.
If there's real evidence of collusion heads will/should roll but I honestly don't think trumps people were smart enough to pull that off. Russia isn't so stupid that they'd leave blatant evidence of their efforts.
Hearing Trump voters who consider themselves 'patriots' brush off the Russia thing as no big deal amazes me.
The ignorance is astounding with this crowd, most of whom were raised under the spectre of the cold war like myself.

IMO, this country's political future is FUBAR without a gutting of both parties.
I've reached a point of apathy that I can't think of a single politician I can get behind, other than to push them down a flight of stairs.
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Russia's goal is to pretty much just stir up shit as much as possible. If anything did happen, I could see them releasing just enough data to stir shit up again if we ever find ourselves in a state of normalcy.
 
Adventurous

Adventurous

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Mar 19, 2014
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Westy said:
Russia's goal is to pretty much just stir up shit as much as possible. If anything did happen, I could see them releasing just enough data to stir shit up again if we ever find ourselves in a state of normalcy.
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Everything I've read indicates this. Not necessarily that they cared deeply about Trump winning, moreso that the chaos they could sow in our political system would diminish confidence around the world in the concept of democracy and shine a favorable light on Russia. All signs point to that being a resounding success.
 
Nick

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
24,065
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where the trails are
Adventurous said:
Everything I've read indicates this. Not necessarily that they cared deeply about Trump winning, moreso that the chaos they could sow in our political system would diminish confidence around the world in the concept of democracy and shine a favorable light on Russia. All signs point to that being a resounding success.
Click to expand...
 
JohnE

JohnE

filthy rascist
May 13, 2005
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Front Range, dude...
jonKranked said:
if he was aware of such efforts - despite not being the one to initiate them or direct others to do so - he is still complicit if he failed to halt them (which seems to be the case).
Click to expand...

Ageed...leaders (And I use that term VERY loosely in his case...) are 100% responsible for the actions of their subordinates. I just think that in his idiotic little way he is using tRumpian doublespeak as a defensive measure in order to attempt to absolve himself...
 
Pesqueeb

Pesqueeb

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Feb 2, 2007
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Riding the baggage carousel.
dan-o said:
A question for everyone salivating over the Mueller investigation:

Specifically, what are you outraged about beyond the fact that trump is an asshole?
Click to expand...
The thing about Trump, is that you can ignore any and/or all of the plethora of election run up controversies, and he's still grossly incompetent, unqualified, and compromised. I absolutely believe, and I think that the future will bear this out, that he is/was, broke as shit, and has been engaged money laundering with Russian criminals for at least 2 decades to keep his "empire" afloat. While I won't go so far as to imply that he is any sort of mastermind in any of it, he is, best case scenario, complicit. I've been trying to find it since you posed this question yesterday, but I watched some sort of foreign documentary a while back about Russian Mob money laundering, and Trumps role in quite a lot of it. I'm a YUGE fan of the theory that Trump didn't actually want to win the primary, never mind the election. All he was really looking for was some press for himself and his show(S), maybe a book deal, maybe a gig as a pundit on Faux. He was dirty as shit, but largely being ignored. He had to have known that the exposure of being President* would bring an uncomfortable level of scrutiny. Does this look like a man excited to be president?


I'll say the same for any as of yet proven "collusion". Do I think he went looking for it? No. Do I think he even knows how to spell it? No. I agree with @JohnE on this. He's not smart enough on his own to pull that shit. Do I think the Russians went to him, or his kids, or somebody involved in the campaign and offered to help and/or expose his dirty dealings? Absolutely, and I don't think any of the Trump family is smart enough to know that it's against the law. I also have no doubt that Paul Manafort is a Russian plant, he's as compromised as the day is long. That doesn't necessarily prove that Trump colluded, but it sure looks "funny".

dan-o said:
What end game are you hoping for?
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Removal from office, and a cell to rot in for the rest of their natural lives. Discrediting of his entire administration and anyone involved in it.

dan-o said:
Do you think that will leave the country in a better place or throw it further into a tailspin?
Click to expand...
It can be both. Short term, yea I actually think it could be really fucking scary. Operating under the assumption that Trump and/or his high level staff is guilty of Colluding, you're talking about almost all of the very senior members of government being separated from treason based solely on semantics. It would be the largest Constitutional crisis ever. During the final days of Watergate, members of Nixon's own staff were so afraid he was unstable that they were taking action to prevent him from getting us all killed. I do not believe anyone serving Trump right now has that level of courage or conviction.

Long term, I think it serves us all, not just citizens of the United States, but the world, to prove that the rule of law means something and that Democracy can survive such a threat.

dan-o said:
This thread reads like the passengers cheering on the captain of the titanic.
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I think it's more along the lines of the passengers wanting to get a captain on the boat who believes in icebergs in the first place.

jonKranked said:
if the captain was a racist self serving xenophobe.
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"Iceberg dead ahead!" - deck peon

"No iceberg! No Iceberg! You're the iceberg" - Donald Trump, probably.

4 hours later

"Captain, the ship is sinking, we have to get everybody off!" - deck peon

"FAKE NEWS! NO ICEBERG! SAD!" -Donald Trump, probably.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,981
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media blackout
Pesqueeb said:
I think that the future will bear this out, that he is/was, broke as shit, and has been engaged money laundering with Russian criminals for at least 2 decades to keep his "empire" afloat. While I won't go so far as to imply that he is any sort of mastermind in any of it, he is, best case scenario, complicit. I've been trying to find it since you posed this question yesterday, but I watched some sort of foreign documentary a while back about Russian Mob money laundering, and Trumps role in quite a lot of it.
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Between his real estate and his casino, I'm amazed he hasn't been implicated for racketeering for the Russian mob. His casino was fined several times for not having even basic money laundering prevention measures which are required by law.
 
JohnE

JohnE

filthy rascist
May 13, 2005
13,448
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Front Range, dude...
Somewhere there is a Bloom County strip where a judge pronounces Steve Dallas innocent of some crime or another, and not only does he declare him innocent, he further says that Dallas is to stupid to have pulled off such a crime...reminds me of Orange Foolious...

And then there is this. If Dumpsterfire is good at one thing, its word salad.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/11/politics/trump-hanoi-gaggle/index.html
 
AngryMetalsmith

AngryMetalsmith

Business is good, thanks for asking
Jun 4, 2006
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I have no idea where I am
DaveW

DaveW

Space Monkey
Jul 2, 2001
11,209
2,729
The bunker at parliament
It happened by you allowing yourselves to be figuratively fucked up the ass by a bunch of homophobes for at least the last 20 odd years without doing anything about it.
Hope this helps. :)
 
Pesqueeb

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
40,325
16,789
Riding the baggage carousel.
John McCain feeling saucy again.
President Trump today stated that he believed Vladimir Putin is being sincere
<snip>
“There's nothing ‘America First’ about taking the word of a KGB colonel over that of the American intelligence community. There's no ‘principled realism’ in cooperating with Russia to prop up the murderous Assad regime, which remains the greatest obstacle to a political solution that would bring an end to the bloodshed in Syria. Vladimir Putin does not have America's interests at heart. To believe otherwise is not only naive but also places our national security at risk.”
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