[biggins]

i dont think anyone really cares what the other person eats i think it is more the principal of the issue. saying one is vegetarian and eats fish is very much incongruent and hypocritical. i dont care what anyone eats at all. but saying one thing and doing another is just kind of silly to me. Its like a girl i know that got pregnant at 17 years old. She attends church every wed. night and twice on saturday and is a self proclaimed devout christian. when she got pregnant she would not get an abortion due to her religious beliefs but if she truly was a christian she wouldnt have been having premarital sex in the first place. much like a vegetarian should not be eating meat if they claim themselves to be vegetarian.

on that note however, i tried, well actually was forced to eat vegetarian for a couple of weeks. it did not work well for me at all. i was lethargic, cranky and sleepy the ehtire time. as soon as i got some meat in my system however i was back up to speed.

 

[syadasti]

on that note however, i tried, well actually was forced to eat vegetarian for a couple of weeks. it did not work well for me at all. i was lethargic, cranky and sleepy the ehtire time. as soon as i got some meat in my system however i was back up to speed.

Bad dieting is bad dieting regardless if it includes meat or not. Its harder to eat a proper diet as a vegetarian, but you can still get a balanced diet as a vegetarian or omnivore.

 

[Echo]

Fish = meat = You not being a vegitarian

you + worrying about what I eat = irrelevant

When I go to a restaurant I ask if what I'm ordering is vegetarian. To me, that means I'm telling them I want something with no meat, no fish, and no chicken or beef stock. I've never had anyone try to tell me that chicken is vegetarian, that's for sure.

 

[biggins]

Bad dieting is bad dieting regardless if it includes meat or not. Its harder to eat a proper diet as a vegetarian, but you can still get a balanced diet as a vegetarian or omnivore.

thats the thing is the people i was with were all very healthy lifelong vegetarians raised by vegetarians and had vegetarian kids. it just didnt work well with my body.

one of my favorite places to eat in asheville is a vegetarian place and damn it is good.i personally eat every kind of meat but i would say pork is my favorite.

 

[syadasti]

I've never had anyone try to tell me that chicken is vegetarian, that's for sure.

Chickens grow on trees, see

 

[syadasti]

thats the thing is the people i was with were all very healthy lifelong vegetarians raised by vegetarians and had vegetarian kids. it just didnt work well with my body.

Yeah but it takes a fair bit of time to change your diet regardless if the change includes meat or not. Your body doesn't adapt to changes over night. Similarly various drugs/vitamins don't have much of an effect until after you've been taking them a month.

 

[SkaredShtles]

So does she not eat yogurt with the various active cultures that have out ports? What about the microorganisms on veggies, fruits, and other food? Guess these vegetarians aren't real ones since they eat/kill microorganisms

Why would you assume it's a "she"?

 

[syadasti]

Why would you assume it's a "she"?

I have no idea. I guess I imagined it

 

[chicodude]

you + worrying about what I eat = irrelevant

When I go to a restaurant I ask if what I'm ordering is vegetarian. To me, that means I'm telling them I want something with no meat, no fish, and no chicken or beef stock. I've never had anyone try to tell me that chicken is vegetarian, that's for sure.

I could really care less what you eat, but if you want the title of a vegetarian, YOU GET NO FISH

 

[Echo]

I could really care less what you eat, but if you want the title of a vegetarian, YOU GET NO FISH

whatever you say boss

 

[binary visions]

I could really care less what you eat, but if you want the title of a vegetarian, YOU GET NO FISH

I couldn't care less about how you speak, but I just thought you should know that your statement is incorrect. Do you use double negatives, too?

 

[MudGrrl]

Vegetarians and Fish

Most writers like to build up to the point they're trying to make, but what I've got to say is so important that I'm just going to bung it into the second paragraph so you don't miss it. Are you ready? Here goes.

Vegetarians don't eat fish.

There. I've said it. And most readers are now going, "what's the big deal, I knew that". But an annoying percentage of you are saying, "well, SOME vegetarians eat fish ..."

Sure, and some teetotallers drink beer and wine. Look it up in the Macquarie dictionary. The entry goes on about vegetable and farinaceous matter, before stating "refusing meat, fish, etc" - because, and I'll whisper it here, a fish is not a vegetable.

Now it's true that, by the dictionary's definition, the true vegetarian is a vegan, someone who eschews all animal products. Many vegos stray towards dairy or even eggs.

But a fish, which you catch with a hook, which fights to remain in its environment, and which then flaps and gasps its last in a layer of bloody water at the bottom of the boat? Not very vegetarian.

Nevertheless, vegetarians are always being asked if they eat fish. The word is becoming so debased that you can go to dinner at a friend's house, having warned them of your diet, to be told, "Oh, I made a tuna bake especially for you". It's pretty awkward having to decline, especially when your host says, in bafflement, "Well, a lot of vegetarians eat fish", as if you're just being unnecessarily unreasonable.

So who is to blame? Meat-eaters can be blamed for a lot of things (supporting animal cruelty and the destruction of Australia's fragile environment are two things that spring readily to mind), but they're in the clear on this one.

No, the fault lies with the wannabe vegetarians, the people who think it's something cool to claim, but who couldn't be bothered to go the whole hog, as it were, by forgoing the whole animal kingdom.

There are other words they can use to describe themselves. Vegaquarian is clever and catchy, or even pescatarian (peskies for short). "Dietary poseur" is perhaps too vague. Or how about just, "I don't eat meat"? Although it can be argued that fish is a meat,

"meat" and "fish" are separate on most menus, so we can live with this differentiation.

But please, can we keep the fish out of vegetarian? The next thing we know, similar words and phrases will cease to have meaning.

"I'm a non-smoker, but I always puff on a cigar after dinner."

"I'm sedentary, but I go for a run every morning."

"I'm celibate, but I have sex now and again."

You see how annoying it can become? Seriously, I've had enough. Sooner or later, some waiter in a restaurant with nothing but animals on the carte is going to respond, as they so often do, to my query about vegetarian options by asking me if I eat fish, and it's going to be the last straw.

I'm a pacifist, but I might throw my menu at him.

 

[SkaredShtles]

I couldn't care less about how you speak, but I just thought you should know that your statement is incorrect. Do you use double negatives, too?

He's got an excuse - he's retarded.

 

[SkaredShtles]

<snip>
So who is to blame? Meat-eaters can be blamed for a lot of things (supporting animal cruelty and the destruction of Australia's fragile environment are two things that spring readily to mind),

This writer gets a hearty "STFU" for this one. :nuts:

 

[Tenchiro]

This writer gets a hearty "STFU" for this one. :nuts:

 

[syadasti]

This writer gets a hearty "STFU" for this one. :nuts:

What he really meant was: "Meat eaters can be blamed for keeping the natural order for life as long as life as been around. Without carnivores ecosystems would collapse. There is nothing unnatural about eating meat. Evolution can't be wrong but I certainly can be."

My take - everything in moderation...

 

[Echo]

Vegetarians and Fish

Ooh, look, another writer whose opinion doesn't matter to me

 

[Jim Mac]

Veg since '93.

No I don't eat fish, though fish have eaten me before. Long story short, it involved puking while out on a snorkeling/dive trip and a school of fish that devoured the aforementioned puke so much that one popped into my mouth to 'finish it up'.

 

[SkaredShtles]

DENNIS: I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!

 

[OGRipper]

What he really meant was: "Meat eaters can be blamed for keeping the natural order for life as long as life as been around. Without carnivores ecosystems would collapse. There is nothing unnatural about eating meat. Evolution can't be wrong but I certainly can be."

My take - everything in moderation...

Do you really believe this? I'm a carnivore but there is nothing natural about industrial meat production. In fact, forcing cattle to eat corn instead of grass is going against what nature has equipped ruminants to eat.

I agree with what you say about moderation but spare us this bit about the natural order. We are consuming way too much of the wrong things to point to nature as an excuse.

 

[syadasti]

Do you really believe this? I'm a carnivore but there is nothing natural about industrial meat production. In fact, forcing cattle to eat corn instead of grass is going against what nature has equipped ruminants to eat.

I agree with what you say about moderation but spare us this bit about the natural order. We are consuming way too much of the wrong things to point to nature as an excuse.

I never mentioned commercial meat production. Commercial farms, may it be meat or vegetables, have the short-term bottom line as their primary concern. Cattle aren't natural to NA either - native animals like bison, deer, elk, mountain goat, moose, mountain sheep, etc would be the lower impact, more responsible choice for farming.

My point is there is nothing wrong with eating other animals - its natural behavior. Humans are animals and evolved as omnivores and eat as such. Just cause most companies are making and selling a less than ideal meat product or the average consumption is too high doesn't mean meat in itself is bad.

Also if you want to talk about really hurting an ecosystem (the biggest on earth by far), look to the fishing industry. There are numerous fish species that are being harvested unsustainably.

In Canada species have been wiped out and fishing towns ruined - everyone loses.

 

[syadasti]

Here is a guide to responsible fish eating if you are interested. Here is another.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Here is a guide to responsible fish eating if you are interested.

I don't like fish. I think this makes me morally superior to all you fish eaters.

 

[syadasti]

Here are the terms you need for the new age vegetarians:

"pescatarian", "pescotarian", and "piscatarian" - veggies who eat fish

"pollotarian" - veggies who eat chicken

 

[OGRipper]

I never mentioned commercial meat production. Commercial farms, may it be meat or vegetables, mostly have the bottom line as their concern. Cattle aren't natural to NA either, Bison would be the proper choice.

My point is there is nothing wrong with eating other animals - its natural behavior. Humans are animals and evolved as omnivores and eat as such. Just cause most companies are making and selling a less than ideal meat product or the average consumption is too high doesn't mean meat in itself is bad.

Also if you want to talk about really hurting an ecosystem, look to the fishing industry. There are numerous fish species that are being harvested unsustainably.

In Canada species have been wiped out and fishing towns ruined - everyone loses.

I agree there is nothing wrong with eating animals, I just don't buy the justification you are using. It's only part of the natural order if you eat and kill only what you need to survive, and don't manipulate nature to bend to your will. There is very little that is natural about our nation's current meat and fish supply, and we have significantly departed from the natural order. Props to you if you seek it out, but only the tiniest fraction comes from sustainable sources. The rest comes from feedlots, fish farms, and other contrivances that we have created to meet a demand that would have outstripped supply long ago in any natural system.

Using your example of fish, do you think fish farms are environmentally friendly or part of the natural order? Most are not the former, and none are the latter. Sure, they help us meet the demand for species that are being over-fished to the point of extinction. But reducing the demand should be part of the approach.

Instead we figure out different ways to deliver what the consumer wants, for cheap money, regardless of the waste generated by the operation and regardless of the fuel needed to run the operation and transport the product.

There is no easy answer. Sure fish farms help protect fragile species. But they help reinforce the notion that we can have whatever we want as long as we're willing to pay, even if most people don't know the real cost.

 

[SkaredShtles]

<snip>

There is no easy answer. Sure fish farms help protect fragile species. But they help reinforce the notion that we can have whatever we want as long as we're willing to pay, even if most people don't know the real cost.

Hopefully gas will get heinously expensive and local farms will start sprouting up again.

 

[syadasti]

I agree there is nothing wrong with eating animals

...

There is no easy answer.

Some commercial large scale fruit, vegetable, etc farming isn't sustainable either, so you can't buy the justification for general vegetarianism either unless you know your products come from sustainable farm practices.

So your point is???

 

[SkaredShtles]

Some commercial large scale fruit, vegetable, etc farming isn't sustainable either, so you can't buy the justification for general vegetarianism either unless you know your products come from sustainable farm practices.

So your point is???

I think maybe I need to move back to the Midwest and live off the land.

Naaaaaah.

 

[syadasti]

Also farmed fish doesn't always pollute the environment either.

Farmed Clams, Mussels, Oysters, Crawfish are sustainable and actually clean the environment.

Farmed fish like Shrimp, Tilapia, Bass, Catfish are low impact and are sustainable using the right methods.

 

[OGRipper]

Some commercial large scale fruit, vegetable, etc farming isn't sustainable either, so you can't buy the justification for general vegetarianism either unless you know your products come from sustainable farm practices.

So your point is???

My point is as I stated: I agree that it's ok to eat animals, but I don't agree with people justifying it by saying it is part of the natural order. That's only true if you believe that by virtue of our "natural" superior intellect, anything we create must be "natural."

When people ask me (or when I ask myself) why I eat meat, I say "Because I like it." I try to be aware of where it comes from, how it's produced, etc., but in the end, IMO there is no good reason. So I make my choice and live with it. Saying "I am man, man eats meat, therefore I eat meat" is not a good enough reason for me. But if it works for you, great.

 

[SkaredShtles]

<snip>

When people ask me (or when I ask myself) why I eat meat, I say "Because I like it."

I say that when people ask me why I do *anything* I do.

Except work.

Edit: Oh yeah, and mowing.

And pulling juniper bushes. :mumble:

 

[syadasti]

When people ask me (or when I ask myself) why I eat meat, I say "Because I like it." I try to be aware of where it comes from, how it's produced, etc., but in the end, IMO there is no good reason. So I make my choice and live with it. Saying "I am man, man eats meat, therefore I eat meat" is not a good enough reason for me. But if it works for you, great.

That argument could apply to any food not sustainably produced, so I could say the same thing about a vegetarian if they buy various conventional produce at supermarkets. So I guess everyone has to justify reason they eat anything then

 

[OGRipper]

That argument could apply to any food not sustainably produced, so I could say the same thing about a vegetarian if they buy various conventional produce at supermarkets. So I guess everyone has to justify reason they eat anything then

I don't know why but you seem to be getting defensive. You are absolutely right, some vegetarians have less idea about what they eat and where it comes from than some meat eaters.

I am not sure I understand that last sentence but um yeah, we should all try to justify the things we eat. Vegetarian, omnivore, whatever, we should all be more aware of the true cost of the things we choose to consume. Otherwise we'd be spending our lives in an uninformed fog, eating whatever is new at the KFC, regardless of the cost to ourselves, the environment, etc.

The hard part is figuring out where responsibility ends and lunch starts. For most of us, it's a compromise. But we should at least make an effort to ask the questions and make informed decisions.

 

[syadasti]

I am not sure I understand that last sentence but um yeah, we should all try to justify the things we eat. Vegetarian, omnivore, whatever, we should all be more aware of the true cost of the things we choose to consume. Otherwise we'd be spending our lives in an uninformed fog, eating whatever is new at the KFC, regardless of the cost to ourselves, the environment, etc.

Welcome to America

 

[OGRipper]

Welcome to America

Hahaha, yeah no kidding. And maybe that's all I was saying: There is nothing natural about our country's food supply, so pointing out the "natural order" rings a little hollow for me.

 

[syadasti]

My point of looking to nature is that an animal's diet does not become invalid due to modern practices, so called morals values, or other reasoning. Our natural dieting needs are still valid and are a product of natural evolutionary forces. You can't change merely on a whim, it takes many many generations. Nutritional requirements will remain the same and you can't reason your way out of biological reality. You can adapt and use modern nutritional knowledge to acceptably meet them as a vegetarian.

I am not suggesting unsubstainable practices, just stating what reality of a natural proper diet.

Like I said before, everything in moderation. It applies to many things in life...

 

[kindtrails]

GO VEGITARIANS! I have been a vegetarian for 15 years now (longer than the period that I ate meat) Damn I love tofu!--It seems to me the more the food is processed, the worse it is for you. We all need to eat more whole foods (myself included).

 

[Tenchiro]

GO VEGITARIANS! I have been a vegetarian for 15 years now (longer than the period that I ate meat) Damn I love tofu!--It seems to me the more the food is processed, the worse it is for you. We all need to eat more whole foods (myself included).

Isn't Tofu highly processed?

 

[SkaredShtles]

<snip>It seems to me the more the food is processed, the worse it is for you. We all need to eat more whole foods (myself included).

I agree. Like this:

 

[MudGrrl]

well now, that looks pretty dmn good.