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What trail bike tire casings don't suck?

mtg

Green with Envy
Sep 21, 2009
1,862
1,604
Denver, CO
@toodles Not all EXO casings are the same. That's an Ardent you have in the picture, and that EXO is less tough than an Aggressor or Minion.

As far as WTB tires, it depends if you're talking about their Light or Tough casing. There's a big difference. The Tough casing is a DH tire with a folding bead. The Light casing feels thinner than most EXO tires.

Edit: if you're looking at WTB for a rear tire, get the Tough casing, and I liked running a Vigilante with the center knobs cut down to half height. Then, it rolled fast enough, and gave the side knobs more space to grab dirt, and the knobs wore completely down before the casing gave up. That was about an 1100g tire in 27.5x2.3, fyi.
 
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toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,479
4,719
Australia
@toodles Not all EXO casings are the same. That's an Ardent you have in the picture, and that EXO is less tough than an Aggressor or Minion.
Absolutely! I've run EXO casings on Aggressors and Minions without a hassle through some pretty decent shit. But I've murdered all 3 EXO Ardents I've tried. The rubber is super super soft and just cuts like anything. If I do any more XC events I'm just gonna run the Aggressor and blame that for my mid-pack finish and complete exhaustion.

@kidwoo - I'm not running tyres that bike on either the enduro or trail bike yet. 2.35 minion DHF on the front of both. I'll try to get my hands on a 2.3 GRID Slaughter for a go, but they're harder to get here than US apparently.
 

mdc

Monkey
Jul 8, 2006
243
15
Uxbridge
I've been pretty happy with the eThirteen TRSr set up. Sidewalls are plenty strong, and the grip and traction is MUCH better than the Minions they replaced. They are a bit slower rolling for trail rides( super soft rubber, etc), but for park riding, and/ or wet conditions they have been great.
 

profro

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2002
5,617
314
Walden Ridge
I ended up with a Hutchinson Squale in Hardskin from a raffle and thought I would give it ago. The quickness with which it completely blew off the rim in a corner was staggering. Slightly less impressive was how easily it pinch flatted on the smallest of rocks.

I usually don't feel this good throwing away a new tire.
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,504
In hell. Welcome!
Michelin Force AM GUM-X3D is a no-go. I partially ripped a center knob off the casing during a climb in chunk. Into the trash can it goes.
 

Gallain

Monkey
Dec 28, 2001
183
43
Sweden
I've been pretty happy with the eThirteen TRSr set up. Sidewalls are plenty strong, and the grip and traction is MUCH better than the Minions they replaced. They are a bit slower rolling for trail rides( super soft rubber, etc), but for park riding, and/ or wet conditions they have been great.
But my super tacky dh Minions are better still for park riding...
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I ended up with a Hutchinson Squale in Hardskin from a raffle and thought I would give it ago. The quickness with which it completely blew off the rim in a corner was staggering. Slightly less impressive was how easily it pinch flatted on the smallest of rocks.

I usually don't feel this good throwing away a new tire.
Michelin Force AM GUM-X3D is a no-go. I partially ripped a center knob off the casing during a climb in chunk. Into the trash can it goes.







I used to wonder why companies continued to make shitty tires.

You gotta stop encouraging them.
 

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,194
4,419
I used to wonder why companies continued to make shitty tires.

You gotta stop encouraging them.
And yet folks continue to buy them hoping for a different result... when there are many, well-established, good tires out there. Or put in other words – changing the awesome tires you're already riding isn't going to make you any faster.
 

KenW449

Thanos did nothing wrong
Jun 13, 2017
2,704
329
Floating down the whiskey river...
Wasn't L.U.S.T. all about the extra layer of material inside to make them airthight and self-sealing? All in the name of not using any liquid sealant.
This is what i got from the website... seems i may have added some words in with poor memory recollection..

"Lightweight Ultimate Sidewall Technology (L.U.S.T.). This technology offers better puncture resistance, improved air retention, better longevity and lower weight than previous tubeless technologies. By adding a thin fabric layer to the sidewall, covered in a special airtight rubber compound, Maxxis created a casing that is lighter, tougher and holds air better."
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,648
3,089
I used to wonder why companies continued to make shitty tires.

You gotta stop encouraging them.
I want to stop encouraging them, but Maxxis is refusing to produce enough Shorty and DHR2 in 26" (or their EU distributors suck). :thumbsdown: With the now muddy trails full of leafs the DHF/Ardent combo doesn't cut it anymore, so I am contemplating buying Magic Marry tires. Shows how desperate I am! :disgust:
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,648
3,089
This is what i got from the website... seems i may have added some words in with poor memory recollection..

"Lightweight Ultimate Sidewall Technology (L.U.S.T.). This technology offers better puncture resistance, improved air retention, better longevity and lower weight than previous tubeless technologies. By adding a thin fabric layer to the sidewall, covered in a special airtight rubber compound, Maxxis created a casing that is lighter, tougher and holds air better."
I use(d) them and they were actually not too bad. Yes, the extra layer of rubber was meant to make them full UST tires, but it also helped with puncture protection. The 2.35 HR LUST was about 150 heavier than the regular version if I remember correct, giving it a fair bit more sidewall support also when ridden with a tube. Somewhere between EXO and DD I would say.
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,504
In hell. Welcome!
I used to wonder why companies continued to make shitty tires.

You gotta stop encouraging them.
I am still in a search mode for a little moar aggressive rear tire (> than SS or Slaughter) that does not weight 950g+ for our ishty technical climbs. Forgive me for being a naive Joey.

Didn't someone in this thread warn you that the only Michelin that is worth a shit is the Wild Rock'R2?
Thanks, Obama!
 

mtg

Green with Envy
Sep 21, 2009
1,862
1,604
Denver, CO
I am still in a search mode for a little moar aggressive rear tire (> than SS or Slaughter) that does not weight 950g+ for our ishty technical climbs. Forgive me for being a naive Joey.



Thanks, Obama!
Try the Aggressor. The knobs look....random, but it works well.
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
15,827
13,063
Try the Aggressor. The knobs look....random, but it works well.
That's what I've gone to instead of a Minion SS. It's been good all summer having a little more braking traction in the loose stuff which is what I was after versus the SS.
 

profro

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2002
5,617
314
Walden Ridge
I use(d) them and they were actually not too bad. Yes, the extra layer of rubber was meant to make them full UST tires, but it also helped with puncture protection. The 2.35 HR LUST was about 150 heavier than the regular version if I remember correct, giving it a fair bit more sidewall support also when ridden with a tube. Somewhere between EXO and DD I would say.
Is it really necessary for one manufacturer to have so many variants to cover riding bikes off road?

How about I simplify it for you Maxxis.

1- DH
2 - Trail riding*
3- XC racing

with only 2 compounds

1- Sticky
2- I'm cheap

* If trail riding is more aggressive these days because of better bikes and suspension then make the adjustment. EXO sucks.
 
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mtg

Green with Envy
Sep 21, 2009
1,862
1,604
Denver, CO
Is it really necessary for one manufacturer to have so many variants to cover riding bikes off road?

How about I simplify it for you Maxxis.

1- DH. DH Casing
2 - Trail riding*. EXO and Double Down
3- XC racing. Tubeless Ready (aka TR)

with only 2 compounds

1- Sticky 3C
2- I'm cheap Dual Compound

* If trail riding is more aggressive these days because of better bikes and suspension then make the adjustment. EXO sucks.
That's basically what Maxxis has done. In the trail riding category, that's a wide enough usage case to justify both EXO and DD. As you pointed out, some folks need thicker than EXO, but there are a lot of folks where that would be overkill.

Now, if you were talking about tread patterns, I would agree there are possibly too many, and the whole spectrum could better be covered with less tread patterns. However, not every rider sees it that way.
 

profro

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2002
5,617
314
Walden Ridge
That's basically what Maxxis has done. In the trail riding category, that's a wide enough usage case to justify both EXO and DD. As you pointed out, some folks need thicker than EXO, but there are a lot of folks where that would be overkill.
Uh no,

EXO is a horrible solution for trail riding. Its well documented, in this thread alone, that EXO is not sufficient for today's trail riding. DD should not be required for riding a modern trail bike.

As for compounds... per Maxxis website

1. Single (whatever that means????)
2. Dual (?)
3. 3C MaxxTerra
4. 3C MaxxGrip
5. Triple (?)
6. 3C (?)
7. Super Tacky
8. 3C MaxxSpeed
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,504
In hell. Welcome!
Try the Aggressor. The knobs look....random, but it works well.
I have that on one rear wheel now and I don't see much difference compared to SS on our NE trails. It sucks in the wet as much as the SS and we don't really have loose over hard stuff to make a difference. I can kill the side knobs in 2 months. Besides, I hate the looks of that tire. :D

I've kinda given up and ordered a 2.3 HR2 EXO DC.

What size you looking for?
2.3-2.35ish
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Uh no,

EXO is a horrible solution for trail riding. Its well documented, in this thread alone, that EXO is not sufficient for today's trail riding.

Depends on which one you're talking about (like mtg said), not all EXO casings are the same. The orginal ones.....good, and they're still made that way. New ones are shite for sure. But an old dhf 2.5 or dhr2 2.4 are pretty legit.
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,001
1,693
Northern California
Tougher than EXO without the weight of DD are mutually exclusive until newer technology debuts. Pick your poison.
Totally. Doesn't seem to stop people from looking for them though. The lightest weight casing I ever came across that was actually tough was the old WTB Laser Freeride casing from the early 2000s.
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,288
5,028
Ottawa, Canada
This :
Tougher than EXO without the weight of DD are mutually exclusive until newer technology debuts. Pick your poison.
or, put another, less diplomatic way:
Just quit it. Suck it up and put the 1000g rear tire on.

Or you could always start riding like a pussy.

:D
I have been riding the DD Agressor on the rear wheel, and it has been pretty decent in the Northeast wet season with fallen leaves, roots, mud, rocks etc... I'm running a Magic Mary in the front, which is also quite good for these conditions. It's a good combo. When things dry out a bit, I'll likely put a DHF on the front. It rolls noticeably faster, and I prefer how it feels in the corners (I like that channel), but it's not quite as good as the magic mary in wet conditions.
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
15,827
13,063
I'm clearly not shredding the gnar hard enough on pointy enough rocks as I've been fine with DHF/Minion SS and Aggressor EXO's :(
 

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,376
12,532
In a van.... down by the river
I'm clearly not shredding the gnar hard enough on pointy enough rocks as I've been fine with DHF/Minion SS and Aggressor EXO's :(
Deer Creek. The rock garden just before the hard right switchback coming down Red Mesa.

I've heard rumors of people running 30+psi in their EXOs and perhaps surviving this stuff... I don't much like a tire that's pressured up that much.

So beefy sidewalls it is!
 

'size

Turbo Monkey
May 30, 2007
2,000
338
AZ
Uh no,

EXO is a horrible solution for trail riding. Its well documented, in this thread alone, that EXO is not sufficient for today's trail riding. DD should not be required for riding a modern trail bike.

As for compounds... per Maxxis website

1. Single (whatever that means????)
2. Dual (?)
3. 3C MaxxTerra
4. 3C MaxxGrip
5. Triple (?)
6. 3C (?)
7. Super Tacky
8. 3C MaxxSpeed
regarding actual durometers - this is what i've found recently. supposedly direct from maxxis.
https://www.mountainbikesdirect.com.au/blog/maxxis-tyres-everything-you-need-to-know/
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,190
19,156
Canaderp
Most of my riding is done on dirt, with a sprinkling of rocks and the EXO DHR2's have held up great. Only one flat over the last two seasons. They even went through Pisgah with no flats.

Then again I ride with my tires up near 30psi, so.... :D
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,288
5,028
Ottawa, Canada
Depends on which one you're talking about (like mtg said), not all EXO casings are the same. The orginal ones.....good, and they're still made that way. New ones are shite for sure. But an old dhf 2.5 or dhr2 2.4 are pretty legit.
does this hold true for the new, larger sizes? I was very happy with my 2.5 DHF EXO in 26" (I'm pretty sure it was the MaxxTerra EXO). For next year, I'd like to get the same tire for my 650beez. But they don't fucking make it. So which DHF to get for the front of my Patrol?

All the 27.5x2.5 are WT. There's a 2.6 DHF in EXO. Essentially, I think the difference between the 2.5 and the 2.6 comes down to the WT. On a Arch Mk3 rim (26mm internal I think), would it be worth going WT? I think you've experienced both, so I'm wondering what your thoughts are.