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What trail bike tire casings don't suck?

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by Kanye West, May 17, 2016.

  1. mtg

    mtg Green with Envy

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    Yes.

    However, if your stock pump gauge goes to 70 psi with 1 psi increments, I would consider not replacing it. That's still rare from what I've seen.
     

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  2. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    Does it say "made in china (the rich part though)" on it?
     
  3. twenty666

    twenty666 Chimp

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    I weigh 150 and can't stand anything past the high 20's. Wish high psi didn't bother me because it for sure would help. Casing roll in the high 20's has never been an issue for me. It's not like I'm running lower psi with rockers than I did with SX. Maybe it's the rocker's 30TPI vs SX 60 TPI, volume? Can't figure out why they aren't at least as durable as SX for me? I really want the rockers to be my go to tire but I can't wear one out without a pinch.

    My stock pile of SX tires is down to one clutch. Chunders are awesome! Not sure why spec dropped the clutch and chunder? Chunder rolls faster than the butcher and is better in the dry so there's room for both, and nothing in their line up comes close to the traction of the clutch.
     
  4. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    The wildrock'rs are so fucking grippy though, even the (cough) 'stiff' compound one. You can run pressure in those things and they still work like a champ. The tread design is a gift from jesus and you have to go with it.

    I also had to come to this conclusion after poking a rim hole in the first set of those I bought on the second ride.

    I also rode ex417s for a year and a half and never had one flat so you have to take my advice :D
     
  5. mykel

    mykel Monkey

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    Have you heard any mutterings about releasing a full DH version?
    If so....praying for 26"
     
  6. 'size

    'size Turbo Monkey

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    running them at mid 30's psi qualifies as a full DH version.
     
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  7. mykel

    mykel Monkey

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    I'm 210 plus gear, and I'm running 28psi rear (tubed atm) and 25 front (tubeless) on 25mm internal.
    One pinchflat on a rock-drop, our trails are rooty, loose over clay, but not overly rocky so....

    However, Bromont IS rocky, so would like full DH for the roadtrip. Maybe a set of DHR2s if Michi does not come through.
     
  8. sbabuser

    sbabuser Turbo Monkey

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    Good idea, although after getting plus tires for my Yelli, I now need to carry a separate digital gauge so I know exactly what's in there at all times. But it would be nice to get a little closer to ideal pressure to start with.
     
  9. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    Cam Zink's been on some damn prototypes for like a year and a half now.

    I don't think they're smart enough to realize that making those would sell more than all the rest of their shitty dickaround'rrr/zz 23456 tires they actually went to market with.
     
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  10. twenty666

    twenty666 Chimp

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    It might be blasphemy but I have to disagree about higher psi not effecting traction. I find the center sips don't open up at higher pressures. All that sipping is the holy grail of the rocker's traction. I do notice rolling speeds up a lot at higher psi with those tires because the sips don't open as much so I do appreciate the different personalities those tires have. I just hate 30+ psi period. I have to slow my rebound and I already run it near the point of packing up. I skip and deflect too much. Sure I could get used to it, make adjustments, but I just don't want to compromise there.
     
  11. HAB

    HAB Chelsea from Seattle

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    What did you try? I was thinking about doing the same, because my only spare trail bike wheels right now are Enves, but putting wheels that stiff on my hardtail makes me want to die.
     
  12. Flo33

    Flo33 Monkey

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    That's exactly my experience with the WR2's as well. The trails I ride the most are off camber rooty steep affairs with soil like dirt, often in the wet. That's were the WR2 does not shine, compared to a DHR2 or DHF, but when I manage to sneak out for a longer ride, than it's rocky trails and that's real WR2 terrain - but only as long as I do not over inflate.

    I'm at 150 lbs as well, but sometimes just don't give a fuck about line choice. Never had a problem with pinches or slashes on it.
     
  13. Kurt_80

    Kurt_80 Chimp

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    You know, I do wonder if we're riding more gnar these days, thanks in large part to much better suspension and brakes. Combine that with our search for ever lighter parts (that includes lighter tyres), and I think it leads us to where we are. On bikes with tyres that are literally punching above their weight.

    I say this as that dude on a 26 hardtail with 1200g Minion DHFs, FWIW.
     
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  14. slimshady

    slimshady Turbo Monkey

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    Excellent way to synthesize the question. You have certainly given me the answer I was looking for.
     
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  15. Inclag

    Inclag Turbo Monkey

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    Gnar?........ Seems like there's less of it these days with flow and motorways being 75% of what new trails consist of.

    Flats have been a thing folks have always dealt with. Tubeless notwithstanding, as that's another wrinkle to the tire thing, it seems to me that reasonable pressure to maintain tire shape and support is the best way to avoid flats, followed by sidewall selection which aids with point/line impulses to a wheel. Rims can affect this latter scenario and everything is interelated and is a balance.

    It just seems to me that ever since tubeless became thing, people are trying to go as low as they can on the psi's and DH background types have always done the pump and squeeze to feel thing. The ironic thing was that when I tried tubeless some years back I found that instead of being able to drop pressure I needed to increase it to provide additional support from the loss of the tube.....
     
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  16. profro

    profro Turbo Monkey

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    NIST traceable or STFD. I want to see the calibration reports.
     
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  17. StiHacka

    StiHacka Compensating for something

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    i͓̽t͓̽ i͓̽s͓̽ fu͓̽l͓̽l͓̽ o͓̽f s͓̽t͓̽a͓̽r͓̽s͓̽
    FTFY (unfortunately)
    Eff. :disgust1:
     
  18. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    I got some I9 trails. In all fairness the only flat I've gotten was from what I know was a low tire. Peeling it off though I did notice how utterly thin that sidewall is. But those EX7140s are definitely wider, rounder and more inviting. Like anna nicole smith.
     
  19. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    Up until this thread I wasn't even aware the WR2s even had anything other than sideknobs. That's pretty much the only reason I love them.
     
  20. SkaredShtles

    SkaredShtles I love NEWCASTLE and will ONLY drink NEWCASTLE!!!!

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  21. HAB

    HAB Chelsea from Seattle

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    Yeah, the side knobs make them. I wish the center tread was a little more open for braking bite in loose, steep stuff, but I've had good results cutting them.
     
  22. twenty666

    twenty666 Chimp

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    Yeah, I find the WR2 does struggle in good soil. When it comes to bone dry hardback, kitty litter over hard, rock slabs, rock rubble, rocky anything, WR2's are on another level. I'm really surprised I don't see more of them around colorado, utah. A bit wider size would spread the lugs out helping with penetration and shedding, but my guess is they still won't dig/shed well enough to be an all conditions tire and that's fine. They are dry tires and they do that extremely well.
     
  23. SkaredShtles

    SkaredShtles I love NEWCASTLE and will ONLY drink NEWCASTLE!!!!

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    I've been evangelizing for awhile now... and none of my friends will listen. :D
     
  24. twenty666

    twenty666 Chimp

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    Dropping psi will let the center sips open providing crazy good straight line braking. I only need 26 psi range to open them up in a major way. High 20's are the threshold where the sips will or won't open the way you may want. Play around before you write them off as poor braking tires. I find on steeps where you approach at slow speeds I lock and slide later than typical. Dropping the anchor at higher speeds is impressive too, but it's really those steep point and shoot style straight lines where you want to come in slow and controlled is where the rockers really shine as long as they aren't too pumped up.
     
  25. twenty666

    twenty666 Chimp

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  26. HAB

    HAB Chelsea from Seattle

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    Yeah, those DTs are damn good rims. I was thinking about maybe trying one of their lighter options just to have some pinner wheels, but maybe I won't bother.
     
  27. twenty666

    twenty666 Chimp

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    We are riding easier trails then 10 years ago for sure. Just take moab for example, they sanitized the notch even after making the snotch as a go around? Lower pork single track ramped out, jackson's, blue dot... all rock ramped and dumbed down. Sure they are still tech and super fun, but for sure easier with fewer flat causing square edges. It's pretty much like that everywhere. machine built trails and sanitization have killed tech and it pisses me off. Honestly the state of MTB these days is kind of gay if you're a natural terrain steep tech junky like me. I guess if you're a KOM chasing berm exploding new schooler everything is just peachy.
     
  28. twenty666

    twenty666 Chimp

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    Not sure how I missed this but mich is stating 26psi as the lowest they recommend. You're right, I probably need to go higher than I like for these tires in particular. 26 hasn't never been an issue with other tires with similar casings. Too bad 26 is where I really feel the WR2's come alive.
     
  29. 'size

    'size Turbo Monkey

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  30. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    No you should definitely do that. Just so you can tell me their worth. :D
     
  31. Udi

    Udi RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”

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    Run the pressure that works for you!

    There's always people that jump in and say "I don't understand how you run x psi, when I do that the casing folds" completely ignoring a tonne of variables.

    One is pump gauge inaccuracy like mtg said, but rider mass has a huge impact (we don't all weigh the same, we don't all carry the same amount of clothing/gear), also the casing itself (the stiffness varies even from exo to exo in different patterns for example), whether you're using a tube or not, the tube thickness if running tubes, the insert if running inserts, and the rim width + profile it generates: all these things change which pressure you need to run to get the support you need.

    Obviously riding speed / style / terrain have an impact too, but these "people" often imply that this is somehow the only difference.

    Unless you do some serious analysis, you can't compare the pressures you run with someone else.

    @twenty666 I agree with you on low pressure in general, and I'd run them as low as your heart desires if you can get away without flatting/damage. I wouldn't worry about being a few psi below the minimum recommendation either.
     
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  32. HAB

    HAB Chelsea from Seattle

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    I already guinea pigged the EX471s for you, you greedy bastard. :D
     
  33. 'size

    'size Turbo Monkey

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    this is the only answer. you're not necessarily doing it wrong just because some dingdong on the internet said it doesn't work for them.
     
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  34. sbabuser

    sbabuser Turbo Monkey

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    That's not how it works around here (CO). They do rebuild trails every 10-20 years or so, but erosion + rocks means there will never be all smooth or easy trails.
     
  35. Gallain

    Gallain Monkey

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    This!! Try to tell my customers that I raised my pressure 8psi on my dh bike when I went tubeless, although I did drop my xc pressure almost 10 psi. Now my normal machined park pressure, proper dh track and generic mountain biking pressure is in the same ballpark. 22-25 front and 25-28 rear

    BTW if you change tire size of a certain model of tire and want to keep the same feel Laplace's law comes in handy. It's Tension = pressure x diameter so say you have a 2.35 tire with 28psi and change to a 2.5 you want to lower it to 26 psi to get the same feel. 28*(2.35/2.5)=26
     
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  36. slimshady

    slimshady Turbo Monkey

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    I just came across a discussion in Vital about re-engineering the wheel based on the existence of tire inserts and started thinking about why on Earth do we have to have mostly laminar rim walls (I'm talking about the part where the tire hooks the rim, not the rest of the rim's structure). I was thinking a better design would incorporate a toroidal profile there in order to increase the overall resistance to denting while providing a bigger surface area for the tire/rim combo to dissipate the impacts. Further more, such a semicircular surface would allow for the outer surface of the rim -the one facing the hub and spokes- to better interface with the vertical walls of the rim, where the tire seats.
     
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  37. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    I'll save you guys the work

     
  38. 'size

    'size Turbo Monkey

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    it's a circle, other than that i'm not sure how i mount my superexogravitygriddd tires to it. magnets? electricity? bluetooth?
     
  39. Udi

    Udi RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”

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    Haha, I was telling @toodles exactly this just yesterday.
    A less sharp / larger surface area interface here would also make it much harder to pinchflat tubes, meaning more people could go back to avoiding the stupid sealant goo blanket-fix to what is really just a design flaw.

    We're using a rim/tire interface that was made for riding on road, if there's anywhere we need a new standard, this is it. I just hope when (not if) it comes, they actually fix all the problems in one go, unlike boost for example where they pretty much didn't fix anything (still dished = uneven spoke tension, what a joke).
     
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  40. mtg

    mtg Green with Envy

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    What kind of reshaping are you guys talking about? Draw pictures.