[Incubus]

Wheel building 101:

For wheels, I currently have:

Rear (old):

• king disc-o-tech hub (black)
• laced to a Mavic 321 (silver)
• via straight guage spokes (silver)
• and some kind of nipple (silver).

Front (new):

• Marzocchi QR20+ hub (black)
• Mavic D3.1 rim (black)
• straight gauge spokes (black)
• brass nipples (silver)

I recently picked up a truing stand and I'm looking to get a bit more comfortable building/truing wheels. I also have a second, unused Mavic D3.1 rim. Here is my dilema:

I want to both:

1. Familiarize myself with the wheelbuilding process.
2. Have a rear wheel that matches the color of my new front one (black).
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   I'm not sure if I trust myself to use my king hub and a brand new $80 rim to try to build my first wheel ...and a rear one at that where dish and all that stuff comes into play.
   
   So here is what I'm thinking:
   1. Spraying the rim of the rear wheel black while still built.
   2. Replace the current spokes/nipples with new (black) spokes/nipples one by one.
   3. Leave my D3.1 in a corner for another day.
      [/list=1]
      
      Should I:
      • Replace all drive side, then all non-drive side.
      • Replace all non-drive side, then all drive side.
      • Sequentially, alternating drive side and non-drive side.
      • Or not go the one-by-one approach at all.
        [/list=A]
        
        Thanks in advance.
        incubus

 

[ohio]

Your more likely to screw up the build replacing the spokes one at a time, then just starting fresh and building it with the new 3.1

The hardest part is properly tensioning the wheel, and it'll be tougher to do it one spoke at a time.

Just keep your drive and non-drive spokes seperate and keep another wheel handy to check your lacing pattern, and you'll be fine. I say go for the whole shebang.

 

[Incubus]

Originally posted by ohio
Your more likely to screw up the build replacing the spokes one at a time, then just starting fresh and building it with the new 3.1

Maybe I'll do that. If so, I've another question.

I believe that Mavic recommends using 16mm nipples instead of 12mm with the 3.1s. The dtswiss website gives me 261.0mm Right/259.6mm Front spokes. Should I go down a bit given the extra 4mm that the nipples give me?

[EDIT] my bad. The site says to trim 3mm off of the measurement when using 16mm nipples.

 

[oldfart]

I didn't use shorter spokes . The length of the nipple is somewhat irrelevant as the length should take the end of the spoke to almost the bottom of the nipple. That gives you max amount of threads in the nipple. Don't forget to locktite the inserts in to the rim.

Was it the DT Swiss site which recommended shorter spokes? Or the Mavic site? If they are supposed to be shorter than the number you get by measuring rim diameter and plugging values into a calculation formula that's one thing, but I would think DT Swiss calculate that into the numbers provided on their site.

I wouldn't recommend the one at a time method either. Pretty tedious and its a pain getting spokes into place takes a lot of bending and twisting. You'll learn more by starting from scratch. With the tubeless rim though there is an extra step with the insert. Insert the spoke in the hub, insert onto the spoke then nipple on the spoke then screw the insert into the rim but only a half turn or so. Just enough to hold everything in place until completely laced. Then place a drop of locktite on each insert then screw them in. I'd also recommend turning the nipple initially to just cover all the spoke threads.

 

[Incubus]

Originally posted by oldfart
Was it the DT Swiss site which recommended shorter spokes? Or the Mavic site? If they are supposed to be shorter than the number you get by measuring rim diameter and plugging values into a calculation formula that's one thing, but I would think DT Swiss calculate that into the numbers provided on their site.

It was my bad... on DTSwiss' 'instructions' link off of their spoke calculator, they say to subtract 3mm off of spoke lengths when using 16mm nipples. What I didn't notice was that the 16mm nipples are already accounted for in the spoke length calculation. It states 'Mavic D3.1 (16mm)' in the rim drop-down box.

Originally posted by oldfart
I wouldn't recommend the one at a time method either. Pretty tedious and its a pain getting spokes into place takes a lot of bending and twisting. You'll learn more by starting from scratch. With the tubeless rim though there is an extra step with the insert. Insert the spoke in the hub, insert onto the spoke then nipple on the spoke then screw the insert into the rim but only a half turn or so. Just enough to hold everything in place until completely laced. Then place a drop of locktite on each insert then screw them in. I'd also recommend turning the nipple initially to just cover all the spoke threads.

Thanks for the tip. One question for you though... DTSwiss' rounding instructions always confuse me. For th D3.1 and a King DiscGoTech hub, it calls for 261 left and 259.6 right. What lengths spokes should I buy?

Lastly, is there a special tool for tightening the inserts into the rim and what color lock-tite did you use?

Thanks,
incubus

 

[Echo]

I'd say just build the thing completely. As long as you're patient and careful, it will be fine. My first wheel took me about 7 hours spaced over a couple days, but I was super careful and it turned out great. Now I can do them much faster. Ohio is right, replacing one spoke at a time would be a building/tensioning/truing nightmare

 

[Phreaddy]

Originally posted by Echo
Ohio is right, replacing one spoke at a time would be a building/tensioning/truing nightmare

I disagree. I built one this way when I simply wanted to replace a rim. It works fine. Just barely put on each nipple until they are all done. Then tension in the normal way. The one caveat is that it really doesn't teach one the fundamentals of building from scratch.

 

[PsychO!1]

Originally posted by Phreaddy
I disagree. I built one this way when I simply wanted to replace a rim. It works fine. Just barely put on each nipple until they are all done. Then tension in the normal way. The one caveat is that it really doesn't teach one the fundamentals of building from scratch.

I agree with you if your only swapping rims. Just tape the new rim to the wheel, statr tranfering spokes over, very easy.

But it sounds like he wants to replace all the spokes too, might as well do it right. Lace it up from scratch!~!

 

[rekt23]

as far as spoke length goes, you can use either 1mm short or long(i prefer longer) always round up. it gives more for the nipple to hold onto. another tip though, you not only have to true side to side, but up and down as well. you don't want your wheel to ride like an easter egg.

 

[Incubus]

Originally posted by rekt23
you don't want your wheel to ride like an easter egg.

It is April though.

 

[Rev.Chuck]

I would hold off on building the 3.1 for practice. The threaded inserts complicate the build. However as long as you lace it correctly and tension it evenly (both truing and rounding) you won't damage your stuff. You can always take it to a mechanic you trust to confirm your work
If the spokes are to long the threads will bottom in the nipples and, in a tube type rim they can cause tube puncture problems(this is not to much of a problem with a box section rim)
If you use the, tape the rims together and swap spokes one at a time method, then be sure to detension the rim first. It is easier on the spokes and also makes it easy to insert them in the new rim. Go ahead and replace the nipples when you do this. AND, the rims need to be the same size.
Mavic makes a tool to tighten the insert. Use blue loctite(242 or 243) You will never get them back out if you use the others.

 

[oldfart]

yes you need the tool and blue locktite. I'd also round up although I found that the last wheels I built, X3.1 on XTR hubs and using DT swiss tables the spokes were maybe a bit long. Hard to tell when you can't see the end of the nipple though. So a millimeter one way or the other is no big deal.

 

[Rustmouse]

for the wheel, if you wanna try wheel building, and wanna unlace yer old wheel, you need to loosen tension a little at a time....

the best way to unlace a wheel (where you want to save the wheel, not just the hub) is to start at the valve (either direction) and loosen the spokes 1/4 turn at a shot, just keep working your way around the wheel until the spokes get most of their tension gone (about 2 or 3 passes) then you can unscrew them wholesale.

when rebuilding the wheel, use new nipples (and preferably new spokes, they're cheap enough)

Wheel Building by Sheldon Brown

That's a pretty good resource to start.

The trick to building the wheel is to be patient and don't try to add tension all at once.

< certified wheelbuilder, cept i'm slow as hell...

... course that's how i got certified.