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Wheelies and Manuals

GrapeApe79

Monkey
Sep 22, 2005
338
0
Issaquah, WA
Hi girls,

I have a question for ya. I have been riding very consistently for about 2 years and have pushed my limits up a Whistler a few times on blacks and double blacks, but still cannot do a good wheelie or manual to save my life! This is really inhibiting my growth as a mountain biker as I can't go off drops more than about 2 feet due to the front end hitting first and chunking it every time.

I am determined to get this down before my next Whistler trip (hopefully in May or June). Anyway, I'm just wondering if anyone else has or had the same problem and how you overcame it. I have even resorted to mountain biking "skills" books, and practice over and over. Note that I broke my wrist 6 months ago and am pretty afraid of wrecking, especially over concrete so that may be contributing to my wheelie / manual disability.

It frustrates me SO much that guys pick this up when they are kids and somehow most girls miss this invaluable skill.

Thanks so much! I love this resource, what a blessing!
 

amydalayna

Turbo Monkey
Aug 16, 2005
1,507
0
south lake tahoe, ca
i too lack the wheelie skills.
it's just a lack of doing them. guys are so good at them, just from practicing since they were wee tots.
most girls i know didn't start riding until later in life.

i think we just need to practice, practice, practice....
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
One tip I recently received was super helpful. Make sure your arms are extended when trying a wheelie/manual. I would pull my h-bars into me, and my weight would not be over the back wheel.

Keeping my arms extended (elbows almost locked) forces me to keep my weight back.
 

ThePriceSeliger

Mushhead
Mar 31, 2004
4,860
0
Denver, Colorado
It is more than the arms. You need to bend your wrists back, lean back, pull up with your arms. If you are trying to manual, you need to extend your legs untill you are up and then you can relax. Make sure on a drop, once you are off the ledge, you need to get more relaxes and try to land with your body loose.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,241
20,022
Sleazattle
I kind of suck at them too but have improved with practice. Another thing to remember is just pulling on the bars will lift the front tire and pull you forward, your center of gravity won't really move. The key part is the motion before pulling, pushing off or moving your weight back. I have found throwing my weight back works best for me.
 

GrapeApe79

Monkey
Sep 22, 2005
338
0
Issaquah, WA
amydalayna said:
you could always check out lee mccormick's book. he has some good tips on improving your wheelies.
Yes! I bought his and Chris Lopes' book last night. That's got to be the best mountain biking skills book I've seen. I love how it goes into the ins and outs of the bikes and the suspension settings, and the step-by-step skills pics and instructions.

Enough of the book review though. I will keep practicing and keep reading all of these tips, and let you all know if it helps!
 

ThePriceSeliger

Mushhead
Mar 31, 2004
4,860
0
Denver, Colorado
GrapeApe79 said:
Yes! I bought his and Brian Lopes' book last night. That's got to be the best mountain biking skills book I've seen. I love how it goes into the ins and outs of the bikes and the suspension settings, and the step-by-step skills pics and instructions.

Enough of the book review though. I will keep practicing and keep reading all of these tips, and let you all know if it helps!
Brian Lopes, but I will let it slide.:)

I want to go out and get it. What does it cover? Basic riding or everything?
 

amydalayna

Turbo Monkey
Aug 16, 2005
1,507
0
south lake tahoe, ca
GrapeApe79 said:
Enough of the book review though. I will keep practicing and keep reading all of these tips, and let you all know if it helps!
we should make it both of our personal goals to have a killer wheelie by the end of the season. and should post a photo come October/November.
 

amydalayna

Turbo Monkey
Aug 16, 2005
1,507
0
south lake tahoe, ca
ThePriceSeliger said:
I want to go out and get it. What does it cover? Basic riding or everything?
it goes above and beyone basic riiding. it's maintaining your speed through corners.... unweighting and weighting to keep your speed... oh yes, and wheelies and manuals.

check out leelikesbikes.com
 

GrapeApe79

Monkey
Sep 22, 2005
338
0
Issaquah, WA
ThePriceSeliger said:
Brian Lopes, but I will let it slide.:)

I want to go out and get it. What does it cover? Basic riding or everything?
Well, its the first book I've seen that actually covers more advanced skills with really good explanations--it covers freeride and DH skills. I definitely recommend it so far! The writers are also funny as heck! Its awesome!
 

GrapeApe79

Monkey
Sep 22, 2005
338
0
Issaquah, WA
amydalayna said:
we should make it both of our personal goals to have a killer wheelie by the end of the season. and should post a photo come October/November.
Sounds like a plan! I'll look for your post! PM me when you send it, and I'll do the same! :)
 

GrapeApe79

Monkey
Sep 22, 2005
338
0
Issaquah, WA
For those that aren't that great at wheelies and manuals, how do you deal with landing the drops w/o having your front wheel bash into the ground way before your rear wheel?
 
GrapeApe79 said:
For those that aren't that great at wheelies and manuals, how do you deal with landing the drops w/o having your front wheel bash into the ground way before your rear wheel?
Timing. You only need to lean back and loft the front wheel just a bit (if at all, depending on speed and slope) off a drop, but it has to be done at the right time. I don't think your problem is so much the inability to lift the front end but, rather, when you're doing it. It sounds as if perhaps you're lofting too early, and by the time you hit the edge of the drop the front end is on the way back down...thus leading to the front-heavy landing.

I'm not particularly good at wheelies, and can't manual to save my life, but bike attitude off a drop is something I don't have too much trouble with. ...Well, not anymore, once I got timing down.

...Actually, I had that noob feeling all over again when I started riding a rigid fork for commuting. My timing has always been compensated for the action of a suspension fork. Rigid's are different. The first little wall I tried to drop off of on the bike was a mess. Timing was all off.... Landed front-heavy (and on a solid fork, that's none too comfortable). It took me a couple more little drops until my body worked out a new timing scheme based on less monkey motion up front.

Good luck! ...And the Lopes book is, indeed, a good read... Cheers.
 

GumbaFish

Turbo Monkey
Oct 5, 2004
1,747
0
Rochester N.Y.
Yeah as far as drops you don't really need to be good at wheelies to do them, unless you are going pretty darn slow and have to wheelie just to get off. I must admit I am not good at wheelies and can't manual at all really. For me its just lack of practice, once it gets nice again I'll get it down.
 

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,647
1,116
NORCAL is the hizzle
Don't be too annoyed, I know people (guys and gals) that have been trying for years and still can't do a decent wheelie or manual. Just practice and have fun, it will either come to you eventually or not. For me it was learning to get my weight really far back and trusting that a quick tap of the brakes is almost always enough to keep me from looping out. Keeping your arms straight is a good tip too.

But yeah being able to ride wheelies and manuals is different from keeping your nose up on a jump or drop landing. From a drop it is often just going too slow without pulling up the right amount - the longer the amount of time between your front and rear wheels dropping, the harder you need to pull up. On jumps, there are lots of things that can cause it but one thing that might help if you are riding full suspension is to be aware that your bike will compress on the face of a jump and then extend as you get airborne - depending on the way your bike it set up you can get a kick from your rear suspension that will give you a nose-dive. Being aware of that tendency can help you set up better - you can use that compression/extension to spring off the face of the jump in a controlled way.

My prescription is to do multiple back-to-back runs on Dirt Merchant...:)
 

GrapeApe79

Monkey
Sep 22, 2005
338
0
Issaquah, WA
You guys have all given me great advice! I feel like I made some strides practicing yesterday. I have a little trail near my house, and I practiced wheelies on the ups and manuals on the flats & downs. I think I just need to keep practicing. I also practiced getting my front end up, dropping down a small set of stairs and think something "clicked". I really focused on squashing the rear suspension and pulling up and I was getting both wheels on the ground at the same time, so thats good. The only problem is that I bottomed my rear shock and think it might be leaking air now. Small price to pay I guess.
 

thePINKster

Monkey
Jan 31, 2006
184
0
bay area, Cali
for manuals practice sprints at local BMX tracks.. when you get enough speed, the front end will come up, and get you comfortable with it. plus, it's good breading ground to really learn how to pump a manual.
 

freeridenchk

Chimp
Sep 13, 2005
13
0
well as far as hitting drops go, i don't think you need to wheelie or manual, if you hit a drop with adequate speed and pull up the right amount to match the tranny, you should be golden in that dept. as far as wheelie dropping, if you have no speed off of a drop, it may help you to start practicing pedaling off of curbs. after you get good at that with the foot forward you feel most comfortable, start trying the other foot forward. after you can consistently pedal off curbs with both feet, just slowly try it off bigger drops. manuals, well i can't ride one very far myself but i think the more speed i have when i start to ride one, the easier it is. and you will fall off the back of your bike a lot in the process... hope this helps
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
GrapeApe79 said:
For those that aren't that great at wheelies and manuals, how do you deal with landing the drops w/o having your front wheel bash into the ground way before your rear wheel?
A trick I read in MBA was to practice drops on a 1 foot ledge or curb, then start hitting the ledge slower and slower. If your technique is good, then you should be able to drop correctly at any speed.
 

SeaPig

Monkey
Sep 20, 2005
624
0
Seattle
I have a video that explains and shows everything your wanting to know easily and it's actually some ladies doing the teaching. It's called
Westcoast Style - Freeride Fundamentals. You can buy it at pinkbike.com Peace!
 

S.K.C.

Turbo Monkey
Feb 28, 2005
4,096
25
Pa. / North Jersey
Some tips for ya:

1. Get a feel for how much you have to pull up to reach your balance point…
2. Try to stay at your balance point w/o using your brakes.
3. Pump your legs and throw your weight back if your front is too low.
4. Bring your butt in (bend your knees) if you’re going off the back, and/or modulate (gently squeeze in) the rear brake.

Don't pull with your arms, instead preload/pump the front suspension, then snap your ass down while keeping your arms straight, which pulls the front end up.
Bent elbows = bad.
I like to hover just over the rear tire.
It also helps to focus on a distant point in front of you, aim at it to help keep yourself straight.

My experience tells me that one should first learn to hold a wheelie while not "chasing after it"... this meaning, not having to pedal to keep the front end up. I assume most ppl are capable of holding a decent wheelie before moving onto manuals. One should be able to do a wheelie in pretty much all gears, and once the sweet spot comes comfortably it is much easier to work on cleaning up your manuals. Use slight grades up-hill to clean up the wheelie and slight DH grades on soft surfaces to perfect the manual.

An easy and safe way to find the balance point is to set your bike parallel to a wall with the end of your bar just touching. Get on the bike and lean back into a stationary manual while leaning your shoulder against the wall. Try to hold the front end up for as long as possible while trying not to rely on the wall, using your legs to pump the front up and down. Try it, it's fun. Eventually your lower back and calves will start burning once you're doing it for minutes at a time.

Another trick is to get on your bike while facing away from a wall. Hold the rear brake and pull the front wheel up untill your back is against the wall. Keep the front end up by practicing balance for as long as possible. If it gets easy, take a foot off, Cross-up, or do other tricks.

The next tip is: when you're out riding around town, never set your foot down. Whenever there's a red light, hold a track stand until you get a green. Practice this everyday and you'll have better balance, more strength, and be a much better rider.

Hope this helps... :)
 
R

richcreek

Guest
Tenchiro said:
:stupid:

No clipless pedals/shoes either.
i kinda tried it with them once and no helment on concrete and went over backwards. i still cant do one very well but you dont really need to be able to ride one for more that 1.5 bike lengths, because by that time you are in the air and it wount help anyway.
 
L

luelling

Guest
I'm going to interject becuase there is one issue on manuals that I don't feel has been covered. One of my friends (who taught me to manual) is a killer street BMX rider, border line good enough to be pro. The one thing he taught me other than upper body position was foot position on the pedal. I ride left foot forward and his remark was to the on the ball of your foot on the frontward facing pedal and the arch on the barckward foot (my right foot). Typically in a good manual you have the arms straight and do the pumping with the legs and this foot position can help with that. I can manual for several blocks and I still heed that advice. Anyone that needs a reference, watch a BMX video with Van Homen in it (he will do rail grinds to manuals).
 

tru2006

Chimp
Apr 5, 2006
6
0
Seattle, WA
i guarantee you will learn how to do wheelies and manuals at a dirtseries camp! check out www.dirtseries.com. i went to a camp to and wanted to learn them as well. they are fantastic teachers and will make sure you get it before you leave. it's a great weekend of riding.
 

CourtneyNash

Chimp
Apr 20, 2006
17
0
tru2006 said:
i guarantee you will learn how to do wheelies and manuals at a dirtseries camp! check out www.dirtseries.com. i went to a camp to and wanted to learn them as well. they are fantastic teachers and will make sure you get it before you leave. it's a great weekend of riding.
I have to say, this is honestly the best advice yet on this thread. :-) I took a Dirt Series camp two years ago and just those 2 days over the weekend changed my riding for good--I'm doing bigger and bigger drops and jumps every year now. You'll get a lot of advice from varying people, but I'm reticent to trust advice I get from just anyone (no offense to the kind folks who have been chiming in on this thread)--the women who coach the DirtSeries are some of the best instructors in the bike industry. They can break manuals and wheelies down to a perfect science, and get you doing them in a short amount of time (and in the right situations--very important to learn the difference).

If you want to get a feel for it w/out initially investing in a camp, definitely check out the video that someone else mentioned: Westcoast Style - Freeride Fundamentals. That video shows Joan Jones and Damianna Skelton's coaching philosophy in a nutshell, and it is what all the Dirt Series coaches teach (mostly) as well.
 

SuperKat

Monkey
Jul 3, 2005
413
0
New York
Just saw this thread...That book is awesome but it's seriously about practice.
How's it coming along?
Let me know, and good luck.
Kat
 

redFoxx

Monkey
Apr 15, 2005
319
0
Seattle
Anytime you get an opportunity to get a class, take it, no matter if you've already taken a class on that very subject! And no one class will do it. Progress is incremental. All teachers are different plus you'll pick up different stuff each time as your brain assimilates. Our local bike club is great for organizing formal and informal classes and opportunities for practise. I just took a little informal class on doing wheelies, bunny hops and manuals from a local huckster and it is finally starting to sink in. I'd always been confused about the differences between these three moves and even though I've talked to others about how to do them, it never quite jelled. Finally, though, maybe after enough repetition, I'm getting it straight in my head. Practise like you're possessed, too. You will feel different muscles aching from the normal riding which is good. So if you're starting to feel the muscles in your shoulders then you're starting to do something right.

I didn't realize the manual is not only used for doing cool moves down a trail, but that it could be used in jumping. So at our local flow park last night I tried it out and was amazed how such a subtle move (not a big manual, just a slight lean back at the moment of takeoff with outstretched arms) can give you a really nice, controlled landing. But I have to remind myself to do this each time I go over or I resort to my old moves. I feel like I've had a biking epiphany! :)
 

1000-Oaks

Monkey
May 8, 2003
778
0
Simi Valley, CA
A really short stem and getting the handlebar higher (either with spacers, riser bars, a taller fork, or all three) will make a world of difference.
 

skatetokil

Turbo Monkey
Jan 2, 2005
2,383
-1
DC/Bluemont VA
i think the key to the move is not thinking about it as "pulling up" at all. I only actually yank on the bars when i've screwed up and i'm trying to correct a nose heavy landing. the real motion for me is starting out sort of crouched with my arms straight and then shoving the rear of the bike forward and down, sort of like kicking the rear wheel under the front. The motion is basically standing up so your body is curved like a banana and your arms are straight. to hold the manual, you just let your legs bend and suck yourself in close to the rear tire.
 

redFoxx

Monkey
Apr 15, 2005
319
0
Seattle
Definitely getting my hardtail dirt jump bike has helped my maneuverability for these things. And there's not alot of suspension to soak up the energy you're putting into it which is considerable at first.

Last night a few of us from the bike club were doing a skills session on wheelies, manuals, bunny hops. Starting to get a feel for the manual although just in the beginning stages. For now I make a sharp forward motion to kind of preload over the front of the bike, then lean backwards, arms straight and hang back off the seat, like skatetokil mentions. I'm only up for a second or two though as I'm not ready to go backwards further and find that sweet spot.

Don't forget to put the seat way down.

Now bunny hops, whew, those are way beyond me right now. I'm like a total spaz trying to do those.
 

BRM

Chimp
Apr 30, 2006
23
0
I'm a boy so forgive me for posting. But what really it is about is speed. Not about weight balance or anything else. A 2' drop is not a drop technically it's a elevation change if tou think about it. You ride over it not on it. Go fast enough and you just cruise right over it , and well thats it.... It's not complicated bike handling. I tell so many rookies that speed is your friend. Keep your wieght 50/50 then shift back as you come up on the drop, don't brake and you will ride right over it. Good luck!
 

GrapeApe79

Monkey
Sep 22, 2005
338
0
Issaquah, WA
SuperKat said:
Just saw this thread...That book is awesome but it's seriously about practice.
How's it coming along?
Let me know, and good luck.
Kat
Hi SuperKat, sorry--I've been away from the forum for awhile...the wheelies and manuals are coming a lot better! I guess it just takes a ton of practice! Getting much better on landing both tires at the same time on small 2-3 foot drops, and am looking forward to progressing even more this summer. Lots of Whistler trips planned!
 

GrapeApe79

Monkey
Sep 22, 2005
338
0
Issaquah, WA
redFoxx said:
Definitely getting my hardtail dirt jump bike has helped my maneuverability for these things. And there's not alot of suspension to soak up the energy you're putting into it which is considerable at first.

Last night a few of us from the bike club were doing a skills session on wheelies, manuals, bunny hops. Starting to get a feel for the manual although just in the beginning stages. For now I make a sharp forward motion to kind of preload over the front of the bike, then lean backwards, arms straight and hang back off the seat, like skatetokil mentions. I'm only up for a second or two though as I'm not ready to go backwards further and find that sweet spot.

Don't forget to put the seat way down.

Now bunny hops, whew, those are way beyond me right now. I'm like a total spaz trying to do those.
Hi redFoxx, I totally know what you mean about the "epiphany". Mountain biking is so great, b/c when you master a skill like a wheelie, bunnyhop, or manual, its a huge sense of accomplishment. I can easily get the front end up on demand now, but can't hold a wheelie. But, from what I understand, holding a wheelie isn't that big of a deal in technical riding unless you just want to show off.
 

Quo Fan

don't make me kick your ass
I can get my front wheel over nearly anything, but I can't for the life of me ride a wheelie for more than 2 bike lengths. Never have, and probably never will, but that is OK because by that time, my bike is in the air.

I don't think about pulling on my handlebars, I think about pushing my feet forward on the pedals. I practice on almost every rock or waterbar on the trail, kicking out my feet and landing rear wheel first.

I also read Brian's book, and I usually can't learn from books, his writing style was good enough for me to learn a few things about momentum and how to gain it and maintain it. A truly good read.
 

GrapeApe79

Monkey
Sep 22, 2005
338
0
Issaquah, WA
I think that you are right and that pushing your feet forward on the pedals is key. Yeah, the book gives me an idea of how to do things, but technique is definitely something that comes with time I am learning.