[DaveW]

With such wonderful cultures, laws, governments and civilized societies available in Europe, Australia and elsewhere, it really makes you wonder why anyone would choose or seek to live here. What odd creatures Americans are and even odder, the millions clamoring to relocate to this cesspool!


With all her problems, the good ole' U.S. of A. is still the only place I would ever choose to live and raise my family. I have travelled and worked throughout the world extensively and have yet to covet anyone else's country for longer than it took to piss out the coursing intoxicant metabolites.

I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of those "Clamoring millions" are from the third world and not from Europe and Aussie (and a noticeable percentage of those from Europe would have been migrants to Europe from the third world).

my 2 cents on the shooting source of all this frothering is that you will continue to suffer more and more of these tragic events until you get you sh1t together enough to tackle the source of the problem which is two pronged.

1 Glorification of violence in your culture, which tends to make it more of a "societal norm" to resort to in times of personal stress.

2 Ease of access to insane levels of weaponry for acting on the above. The easier you make it to acquire and use weapons the more likely it is to happen.

Till that's sorted out I shall just continue to grab some beers and popcorn sit back and watch the American game show of mass murder.
No point in my caring about it if you can't be bothered with fixing the underlying problem causing it.

 

[dhbuilder]

dhbuilder has a small weiner!

that's the best you can do.

i do believe i saw you at snowshoe last year.
weren't you the one with the stuffed animal of somekind hanging off your bike.
can you spell, g-e-e-k ?

she and i walked away that day.
the perp. with a long criminal background of harming others, didn't.
it's never anything to be proud about.
just survival.

 

[MMike]

that's the best you can do.

i do believe i saw you at snowshoe last year.
weren't you the one with the stuffed animal of somekind hanging off your bike.
can you spell, g-e-e-k ?

.

Yep. That's all I got.

I've never been to snowshoe.

 

[Westy]

food storage?

Could be. Maybe it is the latest 7-11 offering, the ginormo-gulp. I'll check them out a little closer and see if I can find a camel back like drinking straw.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Yep. That's all I got.

I've never been to snowshoe.

based on you pic in the Lounge you are a furry though...

 

[MMike]

Not "down there"

 

[MikeD]

I read that he was not background checked in the UK press, Times I think. Can you confirm?

Looks like he just wasn't crazy enough.

He also apparently bought the gun online or by mail and had it shipped to the local store, which is legitimate and still requires the same background checks...

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/blogs/news_blog/070418/cho_nearly_landed_on_list.htm

Cho Nearly Landed on List of Those Banned From Buying Guns
April 18, 2007 | 5:51 PM ET | Permanent Link
Despite being temporarily detained at a mental health facility in 2005, Virginia Tech gunman Cho Seung-Hui's name was not added to the federal database meant to prevent the mentally ill from obtaining handguns because he was never formally committed to the facility, U.S. News's Will Sullivan has learned.

Following accusations of stalking by two female students against Cho and concerns he might be suicidal, campus officials obtained a "temporary detention order" for him on Dec. 13, 2005, from a Virginia magistrate, citing concerns that he "presents an imminent threat to [him]self or others." Cho was sent to Carilion St. Albans Behavioral Health Center in Radford, Va., for examination.

But the next day, a physician concluded that, while mentally ill, Cho did not present an imminent danger to others or require involuntary hospitalization. Paul M. Barrett, a special justice with the Virginia District Court in Christiansburg released him. (Page 5 of the document).

A 1968 federal law prohibits those who have been involuntarily hospitalized for mental illness from buying firearms. Because he had not been committed, Cho could legally purchase the .22-caliber and 9mm handguns he bought in February and March and used in this week's attack.

The ruling also likely kept Cho off the FBI's NICS Index, which since 1998 has listed people banned from buying firearms -- including illegal aliens, those dishonorably discharged from the military, and those involuntarily committed for mental illness. The names of people who were only temporarily detained for evaluation are not added to the index, said Dr. James Reinhard, commissioner of Virginia's Department of Mental Health, Mental Retardation, and Substance Abuse Services.

For privacy reasons, many states have declined to provide mental health information to the FBI, and records of mental illness are spotty. But Virginia does contribute information about its residents. Licensed gun dealers, like the ones from which Cho purchased his weapons, are required to check the list before selling a handgun to an individual.

Joe Dowdy, who owns JND Pawnbrokers in Blacksburg, where Cho picked up the .22-caliber handgun, said he runs a background check on every customer who buys a gun. In this case, Dowdy said, Cho only filled out the paperwork and picked up the gun at his store, while the actual sale was made by another, out-of-state gun dealer who ran the background check.

"There was nothing out of the ordinary whatsoever," Dowdy said of Cho. "Just an ordinary person."

Even if his name had been added to the NICS Index, Cho would not necessarily have been prevented from buying a handgun. Virginia does not require background checks at gun shows.

 

[syadasti]

It seems students were allowed concealed weapons at VT. Post taken from a thread from someone who was there as it unfolded...

Actually at Tech students are allowed to carry concealed, only faculty are not. Its an odd rule here have to go find it.

Gah this is such a mess, I can't get a hold of anyone because people are evacuated from residences, and email server is crashed. The is such a mess...

Someone dropped the ball on this, where was our emergency announcement system telling us of the danger they just installed 2 months ago! Someone better be fired.

Sorry to hear that uascomp and tesmar, you have my condolences. It appears the have most of the victims up on the collegiate times. No emails from school today, I guess they are still figuring out what to do. Looks like nothing is planned today.

You know I am a fairly avid shooter here and the is only one shooting range here. You see so many students at the range with pistols you wouldn't think anything about it. Then all this happens and ya wonder if he was there while you were.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Not "down there"

kiwiland?

 

[$tinkle]

It seems students were allowed concealed weapons at VT. Post taken from a thread from someone who was there as it unfolded...

i just read that very post 10 min ago, and remembered seeing the VT policy on this topic yesterday, found here (sections 2.2 & 2.3, page 2)

2.2 Prohibition of Weapons
The university’s employees, students, and volunteers, or any visitor or other third party attending a sporting,
entertainment, or educational event, or visiting an academic or administrative office building or residence hall, are
further prohibited from carrying, maintaining, or storing a firearm or weapon on any university facility, even if the
owner has a valid permit, when it is not required by the individual’s job, or in accordance with the relevant
University Student Life Policies.
Any such individual who is reported or discovered to possess a firearm or weapon on university property will be
asked to remove it immediately. Failure to comply may result in a student judicial referral and/or arrest, or an
employee disciplinary action and/or arrest.

2.3 Authorized Exceptions to Prohibition on Possession of Firearms or Weapons
An employee may possess a firearm or weapon if it is:
• Used by an employee who is a certified law enforcement officer employed by the Virginia Tech Police
Department;
• Required as a part of the employee’s job duties with the Commonwealth of Virginia; or
• Connected with training received by the employee in order to perform the responsibilities of their job with
the university.
Employees and students may possess and use appropriate tools, such as saws, knives, and other such implements,
necessary for the performance of their job duties or school work, or for student recreational purposes approved
under University Student Life Policies. Certain agricultural workers have been authorized to use firearms, and
hunting on university property may be authorized by the appropriate university officials. Some employees reside in
university-owned houses and are permitted to keep personal firearms on these premises; however, this exception
does not extend to employees living in university residence halls.
As stated in The University Policies for Student Life, students may not possess, use, or store firearms or weapons
on university property; however, firearms and other weapons may be stored with the Virginia Tech Police
Department to be checked out for use off-campus. Organizational weapons of the Virginia Tech Corps of Cadets,
approved by the Commandant, are not prohibited by this policy.
Other exceptions must be approved by the Vice President for Business Affairs, in consultation with appropriate
university offices.

doesn't say anything about throwing stars, which is suspicious.

 

[syadasti]

i just read that very post 10 min ago, and remembered seeing the VT policy on this topic yesterday, found here (sections 2.2 & 2.3, page 2)doesn't say anything about throwing stars, which is suspicious.

It note exceptions in your document - to see University Policies for Student Life. You can possess them with approval from VT police:

Section V.W. - Weapons

Unauthorized possession, storage, or control of firearms and weapons on university property is prohibited, including storing weapons in vehicles on campus as well as in the residence halls. (Note: organizational weapons of the Virginia Tech Corps of Cadets, approved by the commandant, are not prohibited by this policy.)

Firearms are defined as any gun, rifle, pistol, or handgun designed to fire bullets, BBs, pellets, or shots (including paint balls), regardless of the propellant used. Other weapons are defined as any instrument of combat or any object not designed as an instrument of combat but carried for the purpose of inflicting or threatening bodily injury. Examples include but are not limited to knives with fixed blades or pocket knives with blades longer than 4 inches, razors, metal knuckles, blackjacks, hatchets, bows and arrows, nun chukkas, foils, or any explosive or incendiary device. Possession of realistic replicas of weapons on campus is prohibited. Students who store weapons in residence hall rooms, who brandish weapons, or who use a weapon in a reckless manner may face disciplinary action, which may include suspension or dismissal from the university.

Exceptions to possessing weapons may be made in the case of university functions or activities and for educational exhibitions or displays. Such exceptions will be subject to authorization by the Virginia Tech Police. This policy does not prohibit the possession of firearms by persons, such as law enforcement officers, who are authorized by law to do so in the performance of their duties. A weapons storage program is available. Interested persons should contact the Virginia Tech Police (Sterrett Facilities Complex, 231-6411.

So I assume the avid shooter from VT quoted knows what he's talking about then...

 

[$tinkle]

while these exceptions are duly noted, do you find them useful? that is, a prefered weapon of choice does not seem to fit what is excepted. i read it to be civil war re-enactment muskets & their ilk, not personal protection firearms.

as tragic as these events were, i still think it's a good idea 99.9999% of the time to ban handguns from campus.

 

[syadasti]

as tragic as these events were, i still think it's a good idea 99.9999% of the time to ban handguns from campus.

Yes gun control saves lives, the state and international stats bear that out....

 

[kinghami3]

The only place I experienced anything like this attitude and paranoia in the states was Arizona.

San Fran, Oregon, NY never felt like that to me and I certainly never got that vibe from people I hung out or lived with.

I tend to get this vibe in a lot of places; I've had at least two roommates since I started college that had this point of view, even in a place like Seattle. To generalize, in this case, is to say that those who speak the loudest get heard; the rest of us don't really care enough to form a serious response. It may not be that common, but it's the viewpoint that ends up governing the action of the U.S.. On international terms, 9/11 has really changed the landscape of how Americans see the broader picture. How can we compare the 3000 that died in 9/11 to the 1,000,000 that died in the Tsunami? How do we compare the 33 that died in VT to the hundred getting killed every day by car bombs in Baghdad? I'm not saying that these events aren't tragic, but that our response overseas is way out of proportion, because we're afraid of something happening where we live. At the same time, Bush's focus on Iraq rather than Afghanistan is changing that, and we're beginning to question whether or not it was really worth it on a national scale, and VT is going to force us to question that on a more personal scale. The only thing we can do right now is ride it out and see where it takes us; maybe this is big enough of a shock to change our perspective on things, maybe even enough to get us to seriously question our 2nd Amendment rights.

 

[N8 v2.0]

there are always going to be an occational problem with a 'free society' like ours...

but as long as everyone has a good moral compass most problems will be averted.

 

[Changleen]

Following accusations of stalking by two female students against Cho and concerns he might be suicidal, campus officials obtained a "temporary detention order" for him on Dec. 13, 2005, from a Virginia magistrate, citing concerns that he "presents an imminent threat to [him]self or others." Cho was sent to Carilion St. Albans Behavioral Health Center in Radford, Va., for examination.

But the next day, a physician concluded that, while mentally ill, Cho did not present an imminent danger to others or require involuntary hospitalization. Paul M. Barrett, a special justice with the Virginia District Court in Christiansburg released him. (Page 5 of the document).

Frankly if he'd gone through that, he SHOULD have been background checked and he SHOULD have been denied a weapon. No question about it. Seems like a failure of either legislation or the system that he could ever be armed.

Still doesn't excuse him from going nuts, but seriously...

 

[Changleen]

I tend to get this vibe in a lot of places; I've had at least two roommates since I started college that had this point of view, even in a place like Seattle. To generalize, in this case, is to say that those who speak the loudest get heard; the rest of us don't really care enough to form a serious response. It may not be that common, but it's the viewpoint that ends up governing the action of the U.S.. On international terms, 9/11 has really changed the landscape of how Americans see the broader picture. How can we compare the 3000 that died in 9/11 to the 1,000,000 that died in the Tsunami? How do we compare the 33 that died in VT to the hundred getting killed every day by car bombs in Baghdad? I'm not saying that these events aren't tragic, but that our response overseas is way out of proportion, because we're afraid of something happening where we live. At the same time, Bush's focus on Iraq rather than Afghanistan is changing that, and we're beginning to question whether or not it was really worth it on a national scale, and VT is going to force us to question that on a more personal scale. The only thing we can do right now is ride it out and see where it takes us; maybe this is big enough of a shock to change our perspective on things, maybe even enough to get us to seriously question our 2nd Amendment rights.

Good sentiments, I hope something can happen.

 

[Westy]

Frankly if he'd gone through that, he SHOULD have been background checked and he SHOULD have been denied a weapon. No question about it. Seems like a failure of either legislation or the system that he could ever be armed.

Still doesn't excuse him from going nuts, but seriously...

Privacy laws prevent such things, people will not seek help if they think it could hurt them down the road.

Doctors never deemed him to be a threat to others, the girls that reported him just said he was annoying them and did not feel threatened.

 

[Changleen]

just survival.

Personally I prefer to live in a society where I don't have to worry about my 'survival' when interacting with other people.

A society where people need to be armed to protect themselves from other members of their society is no 'society' at all. It's a joke.

 

[Changleen]

Privacy laws prevent such things. Doctors never deemed him to be a threat to others, the girls that reported him just said he was annoying them and did not feel threatened.

IMO, Mentally ill = No guns for you. That simple.

 

[Westy]

IMO, Mentally ill = No guns for you. That simple.

See my edits above.

 

[$tinkle]

Frankly if he'd gone through that, he SHOULD have been background checked and he SHOULD have been denied a weapon. No question about it. Seems like a failure of either legislation or the system that he could ever be armed.

Still doesn't excuse him from going nuts, but seriously...

admit it: this is the one time you could appreciate the bush doctrine

 

[Changleen]

admit it: this is the one time you could appreciate the bush doctrine

I presume you mean pre-emptive action. In which case yes.

However in reality invading a country based on false evidence and killing hundreds of thousands, promoting international terrorism and lying to the world about your actual reasons for doing it is a massively far cry from preventing a known problem child getting a handgun.

 

[ohio]

admit it: this is the one time you could appreciate the bush doctrine

Knowingly having your background checked to obtain a priviledge is very different than unknowingly having your background checked without due process.

 

[MMike]

Knowingly having your background checked to obtain a priviledge is very different than unknowingly having your background checked without due process.

freedom hater

 

[$tinkle]

I presume you mean pre-emptive action. In which case yes.

However in reality invading a country based on false evidence and killing hundreds of thousands, promoting international terrorism and lying to the world about your actual reasons for doing it is a massively far cry from preventing a known problem child getting a handgun.

i suppose that would be a bad thing.
sure hope we don't get desperate; we just might get bat-schyte crazy & try that.

 

[$tinkle]

freedom hater

preach it, sister!

 

[N8 v2.0]

 

[blue]

Nothing like posting a white trash ho with a tramp stamp and a rifle that can destroy a mid-size car.

Remind me again why you still have access here?

 

[N8 v2.0]

Nothing like posting a white trash ho with a tramp stamp and a rifle that can destroy a mid-size car.

Remind me again why you still have access here?

i'm a figment of your stoned imagination

 

[DaveW]

i'm a figment of your stoned imagination

*sigh* if only.......

 

[dhbuilder]

i think before anyone from the uk starts ripping on this country,
you'd better take a long look at ya'll's civility.

i mean you can't even have a simple soccer game without the whole frikken stadium being torn down.

your goverment bans guns because they're scared sh..less of what you'd do with them.
read your history.

 

[Westy]

I'm going to the UK in a few months for a business trip. My boss is giving me the lowdown on how not to talk loudly in a pub or make eye contact etc or I'll risk someone picking a fight. Sounds nice, at least I wont get shot.

 

[$tinkle]

I'm going to the UK in a few months for a business trip. My boss is giving me the lowdown on how not to talk loudly in a pub or make eye contact etc or I'll risk someone picking a fight. Sounds nice, at least I wont get shot.

just wear your baseball cap & fanny pack; you'll blend right in.

 

[MMike]

just wear your baseball cap & fanny pack; you'll blend right in.

and don't forget the "No Fat Birds" T-Shirt...

 

[Westy]

just wear your baseball cap & fanny pack; you'll blend right in.

I just bought a collection of tracksuits, I'll look like every other bloke.

 

[$tinkle]

I just bought a collection of tracksuits, I'll look like every other bloke.

did someone change the definition of 'bloke' to mean mid-40's italian woman from bed-sty?

 

[Westy]

did someone change the definition of 'bloke' to mean mid-40's italian woman from bed-sty?

No, the track suit has become the uniform for Brit's at leisure. They are secretly outrednecking us 'mericans.

 

[MMike]

 

[narlus]

just wear your baseball cap & fanny pack; you'll blend right in.

and goatees are very popular as well over there.