Which fork is the market missing?
- Thread starter macmx
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Absolutely no demand for it. How many DH bikes do you see with 24" front wheels? Almost none.macmx said:
Very little demand. Freeride bikes need to roll well over rough terrain, uphill and downhill. Therefore, 26" wheels (at least in front) are a must.macmx said:
Marzocchi Shiver SC, Manitou Dorado SC, and I think Bombshell makes one too.macmx said:
However, inverted forks are inherently flexy due to the lack of a brake arch, and when you make a single crown inverted fork, there is no real advantage over a traditional single crown. All you'll end up with is a higher price tag and poor tracking.
One thought; How about a lovely gold plated fork, plus knives and spoons, to go with ones lovely China table set?/
heh
Welcome.. Toshi yes, it was doing ones head in.... Its all spiffing now though *big grin*
I would like to see a dual crown inverted fork targeted specifically at freeriding or high level trailriding.
The maverick is too scary light to do dropping, and I feel the white is a little heavy for backwoods plodding around. Something in between would be nice. Sadly, single crown UD forks appear to be a failed experiment.
Without getting into a debate, I think that 26" wheels are not a must. In many cases a 26 is better, but not completely necessary. That being said, I would never buy a 24 specific fork, because I like to be able to run both.
The maverick is too scary light to do dropping, and I feel the white is a little heavy for backwoods plodding around. Something in between would be nice. Sadly, single crown UD forks appear to be a failed experiment.
Without getting into a debate, I think that 26" wheels are not a must. In many cases a 26 is better, but not completely necessary. That being said, I would never buy a 24 specific fork, because I like to be able to run both.
I like 24" wheels, and I would definitly like a 24" specified sc freeride fork. I run dual 24"'s and know a couple of people who do the same for DH.
I think streetriders would like a 24" specified street fork (not like the new marz), but having a 130mm specified sc fork, would have a smaller length. headtube high very low, but still 130mm of travel. I definitly think there's a market for that.
I think streetriders would like a 24" specified street fork (not like the new marz), but having a 130mm specified sc fork, would have a smaller length. headtube high very low, but still 130mm of travel. I definitly think there's a market for that.
What would make a dual crown specifically targeted at freeriding? How would it be different from the numerous (and very different) dual crowns already out or coming in '05?
And PLEASE don't let this degenerate into another debate over what "freeriding" means...just trying to understand what you think you need that is not already out there. I mean, isn't the dorado pretty much what you're asking for?
And PLEASE don't let this degenerate into another debate over what "freeriding" means...just trying to understand what you think you need that is not already out there. I mean, isn't the dorado pretty much what you're asking for?
I think the inverted dual crown for "freeriding" means something lighter weight than a downhill fork but heaver than the maverick fork. I'm guessing that maybe somebody is thinking that a downhill fork sees more stress than a freeride fork would (whatever freeride means) I personally see freeriding and downhilling equal. Some racers want a heavy fork that tracks well and others want a light fork so much that they'll sacrifice a little bit of stiffness and strength, the same could be said of freeriding, some want a fork that will stand up to 20' drops and such and some want a fork that will be light, not too tall and will handle the occasional 4-5' drop.OGRipper said:
Personally I don't see a gap in the market except for dual crown forks with some type of travel adjustment or lock down for those who like to pedal a long travel bike uphill. There are companies addressing this demand for '05 though.
short travel street/dj fork with 20mm dropouts, hem hmmm hem fox, yeah i know there are others, but fox needs to get one out, maybe 36 lowers, on a shorter travel platform....just my .02
OGRipper said:
No, the dorado is too heavy. Think Slider plus, only upside down. I like the whites, but even the 1.8 is like 7.2 lbs. If they could shave some weight off, I'd be interested. It's mostly a preferance thing. I think UD forks work better than conventional forks, but they need two crowns. Like I said, I don't feel that the maverick would be burly enough, and I think the Dorado, White, and anything else out there is overkill. I'm almost thinking something along the lines of the UD150, with better quality and damping. Make sense?
PS, I'm just not into the whole single crown craziness. Just add the second crown, have the same weight and stiffness, and let go of the cool factor.
Forks I could be interested in for long travel trail bike that sees an occasional weekend DH race....the Slider plus. Other options? Marz 888, too much for me, White, too much for me, Dorado-too much and too pricey, Boxxer-not a big RS fan, but it does suit the need. Get the picture? Of course, if I wanted a six-7 inch travel single crown, I get an inch thick book of choices, filled with all sorts of acronyms.
Forks I could be interested in for long travel trail bike that sees an occasional weekend DH race....the Slider plus. Other options? Marz 888, too much for me, White, too much for me, Dorado-too much and too pricey, Boxxer-not a big RS fan, but it does suit the need. Get the picture? Of course, if I wanted a six-7 inch travel single crown, I get an inch thick book of choices, filled with all sorts of acronyms.
quote-Marzocchi Shiver SC, Manitou Dorado SC, and I think Bombshell makes one too.
However, inverted forks are inherently flexy due to the lack of a brake arch, and when you make a single crown inverted fork, there is no real advantage over a traditional single crown. All you'll end up with is a higher price tag and poor tracking.
they make a manitou dorado sc???
got a pic??? :redX:
However, inverted forks are inherently flexy due to the lack of a brake arch, and when you make a single crown inverted fork, there is no real advantage over a traditional single crown. All you'll end up with is a higher price tag and poor tracking.
they make a manitou dorado sc???
got a pic??? :redX:
Yeah, Kornphlake, I hear ya, I guess it has to get back to what "freeriding" means...personally I think freeride forks should be at least as strong if not stronger than purpose-built race forks, but it really depends on what kind of use the fork will see. I mean, I think it's splitting hairs to say there should be a long travel fork heavier (stronger) than a Maverick (which I thought was only 6 inches anyway) but lighter than say a boxxer or dorado...as I recall the Mav is about 5 lbs and boxxers are around 7...so there is a big demand for 6 pound, long travel forks! Ha, no kidding!
Wait, that's it, the market is not currently satisfying my need for a 5 pound dual crown fork (inverted or not) with fancy damping, travel adjustable on-the-fly between 6 - 8 inches, and retail of say $200! Come on you fork companies, get on it!! It should also have an ipod, light system, and a kegerator built in, and it should be convertible between 1.125 and 1.5 with the flick of a switch!! And it should also have Segway-style gyros built in so I never ever crash....LOL!!!
Seriously, I agree that more on-the-fly travel adjustment is needed in longer travel forks. I think that would have a huge impact on the current perception that everyone needs 3 or 4 niche bikes. I know there will be a u-turn boxxer next year but am not aware of any others...?
Wait, that's it, the market is not currently satisfying my need for a 5 pound dual crown fork (inverted or not) with fancy damping, travel adjustable on-the-fly between 6 - 8 inches, and retail of say $200! Come on you fork companies, get on it!! It should also have an ipod, light system, and a kegerator built in, and it should be convertible between 1.125 and 1.5 with the flick of a switch!! And it should also have Segway-style gyros built in so I never ever crash....LOL!!!
Seriously, I agree that more on-the-fly travel adjustment is needed in longer travel forks. I think that would have a huge impact on the current perception that everyone needs 3 or 4 niche bikes. I know there will be a u-turn boxxer next year but am not aware of any others...?
The fork missing is the fork that needs wrapping round some of the uptight boring cunts heads, on here! I'd suggest a nice chrome Wilkinson Sword.......
Any more than 3" for a 24" ft wheel is out of place.
29" DH specific stuff would be sweet.
29" DH specific stuff would be sweet.
Only thing I see missing for 2005 is the new Marz All Mountain offered with a thru axle. Looks like a great fork but I don't want to get a new front wheel as well nor do I desire to have a QR front ever again. I'm a long time Marzocchi customer and been riding them for the past 6 years but it looks like I'll be trying a Sherman Firefly in '05. I'm not a big fan of ETA on the Z1, never really did much for me on the Z150, and for a 6" travel fork something like SPV/Motion Control or TST is needed for efficient pedaling/climbing, although the latter two are new this year and unproven where the first is on it's second season and hopefully the kinks are worked out.
As I see it, and I never thought I'd speak these words after my experience with Manipoo in the 90's, Manitou is one year ahead of Marzocchi and RS in the long travel single crown market, that being 6" SC forks.
As I see it, and I never thought I'd speak these words after my experience with Manipoo in the 90's, Manitou is one year ahead of Marzocchi and RS in the long travel single crown market, that being 6" SC forks.
A short travel or rigid, 20mm axle, with 1.5 and 8" caliper mount options.
manitou sherman jumper. short travel, check. 20mm axle, check. 1.5 steerer option, check. 8" caliper? check, it is 20mm after all.CreeP said:
LOL that's why moto forks are all right side up.
i know about the jumper but it has no equivalent with any other brand.
also there aren't any rigids like that.
also there aren't any rigids like that.
The "huge" hub doesn't add weight, It is also very, very light. The only bummer about the hub is that is a funky size and you have to use it. Which means building a wheel specifically for that fork. I think The Maverick fork is a great choice for longish-travel trails bikes. I would personally take a small weight penalty and run a Fox 36 or similar...Sherpa said:
To answer the original question, No I don't think there is really a type of fork missing for '05. I just wish the big 3 would perfect a simplified fork line instead of coming out with a fork that "will change the world" every year only to leave the world pretty much the same...
How come it took RS 3 years to bring U-turn to a Boxxer? it seems to me that LT/DH forks benefit more from adjustable travel then a sub 5" fork. Oh well it still only has HC2 internals anyway...
Manitou still doesn't offer wind-down (or whatever) on Sherman Sliders but they do on all other Shermans?
People loved the original Monster but complained about the weight so Marzocchi came out with the "new and improved" waaaay heavier version and the totally badical, industry renowned 12" Stuper Monster?
Why can't someone make a well damped, reliable, externally adjustable, ~5-7.5", sub 8lb fork???
and can it please attach to similar (in all regards) frame!
That would make for a >35lb long-travel freeride bike that could actually be pedaled for a long time.
Before anyone butts in, I know there are a few bikes that almost meet this criteria but there really isn't one that exactly does and I don't really see why not?
Unsprung weight, vs stiffness.Kornphlake said:
Which is a bigger issue for MTB's?
Fox Float with 20mm axle, 80mm travel, 1.5 steerer.
-dAn
-dAn
this is exactly what I've been saying, a nice, reasonable weight long travel fork with adjustability. In my perfect world it would be inverted.punkassean said:
Apparently, the geniuses on this board believe that you should use a full on DH fork for trail riding. I reeeeeeeeeeeeally want to pedal an 888 up hills all day.
Just to run some numbers;nickaziz said:
DH rim; 600g
Spokes; 200g
nipples;60g
20mm hub;250g
disc caliper 200g
disc rotor 150g
DH tire; 1300g
DH tube; 300g
total=3060 = 6.74lbs
Now, fork lowers are extremely light, especially mono-cast aluminum or magnesium ones. The most they could weight is 2-3lbs. Take into account that an inverted fork still has dropouts, a 20mm axle, and the stanchions down there, so in the end I'd be very suprised if there was more than a 1.5lb difference between an inverted fork and a standard fork in terms of unsprung mass.
Take our figure above and add 3lb and you get 9.74lbs, add 1.5 and you have 8.24lbs. Divide it all and you end up with one front end that is 15% lighter in terms of unsprung mass.
If you can feel this on a mountain bike, I give you credit.
I think there are extreme cases where you might see an advantage though, take a 13lb Monster T. Now compare that with a shiver DC, the shiver simply weighs about 4.5lbs less, not due so much to the fact that it's inverted, it simply doesn't use so much material, so here we'd see the shiver has a big advantage in unsprung weight. My Stratos S8 was a monster fork with about 205mm of travel, if that thing had lowers that were biult like the rest of the fork, it would undoubtedly be extremely heavy. The thing is that there are forks like the 888, boxxers, and manitou sliders out there that are standard forks, and pretty darn light as well. They negate the entire argument because they are simply pounds lighter. So, Monster T vs. Shiver, I'd go with shiver. Shiver vs 888, well I'd go with 888 because it's lighter, not inverted, has 35mm stanchions, and that inverted unsprung vs sprung weight argument is going to be moot because the percentage difference between the shiver and 888 is going to be very very small.
For most mainstream MTB, XC, trail, and even DH (except for the heaviest hucking forks), I doubt you'll see much of anything inverted. The Maverick works on some specific advantages/disadvantages. It works by bulging the uppers so much so it maintains strength, gets stiffness from being a dual-crown fork, but what it sacfifices is durability. It has some very thin tubes. The maveric DC is an acheivement in mtb engineering, even so there are some disadvantages.
And with a fairly trivial difference in unsprung weight between designs, it makes a whole lot of sense to build a fork with an arch between the legs, stiffen the whole thing up and allow for more weight to be dropped.
Why aren't moto forks like MTB forks, right side up with an arch? Well there's the whole issue of weight to consider, isn't there? Unsprung weight on a moto means a whole lot more than it does on a DH bike, and a few extra pounds in the fork means alot more on a MTB than it does on a moto.
Besides the Maverick (which has no application for DH/FR), how many other USD forks are lightweight and stiff? Especially compared to say a Boxxer or 888.
Why aren't moto forks like MTB forks, right side up with an arch? Well there's the whole issue of weight to consider, isn't there? Unsprung weight on a moto means a whole lot more than it does on a DH bike, and a few extra pounds in the fork means alot more on a MTB than it does on a moto.
Besides the Maverick (which has no application for DH/FR), how many other USD forks are lightweight and stiff? Especially compared to say a Boxxer or 888.
Rik said:
Do you think the Boxxer is stiff
There are a couple different manufacturers who are bringing/have brought a 20mm, disc compatible, rigid fork (Banshee, WOOdman, and I think one other) to the market.
The Manitou Sherman Jumper looks pretty sweet - 20mm, 1 1/8 or 1.5, 3" of travel. The DJ forks have 4" of travel along with air preload to allow for super stiff travel, 20mm option. I'd say that between rigid, 3" and 4" forks, street forks are pretty well covered.
Isn't there a 24" specific, street fork from Marz as well? Is it available yet? There's another option... 24" specific stuff isn't really cost effective to make, because not enough people run 24" wheels, and you can't put a 26" wheel on a 24" fork, whereas a 26" fork is compatible with both.
edit: Bulldog, I'm honored to hold a spot in your signature
The Manitou Sherman Jumper looks pretty sweet - 20mm, 1 1/8 or 1.5, 3" of travel. The DJ forks have 4" of travel along with air preload to allow for super stiff travel, 20mm option. I'd say that between rigid, 3" and 4" forks, street forks are pretty well covered.
Isn't there a 24" specific, street fork from Marz as well? Is it available yet? There's another option... 24" specific stuff isn't really cost effective to make, because not enough people run 24" wheels, and you can't put a 26" wheel on a 24" fork, whereas a 26" fork is compatible with both.
edit: Bulldog, I'm honored to hold a spot in your signature