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Who finds most small DH bikes to big?

DHRracer

Monkey
Sep 29, 2004
371
0
Just wondering who rides small DH race bikes but finds them to big and or heavy(frames)?What don't you like and what would you want?Mainly intersested in geometry and effective top tube length.Have you chosen to use a freeride bike instead of DH frame for racing?Also tell me how tall you are.What does your current ride weigh and what would you think would be reasonable for a DH bike for you?Thanks
 

TreeSaw

Mama Monkey
Oct 30, 2003
17,669
1,847
Dancin' over rocks n' roots!
Well, lots of questions there ;)
Yes, my DH bike is a little too big for me. I ride an '03 (I think that's right) Ironhorse SGS DH Pro with a Boxxer on the front. I switched to a 24" rear for a little better standover and handling, and put a REALLY short DH stem (custom built by my brother in law) but it's still long. Right now it's really heavy with my big tires on it (2.8 front and 2.7 rear).

I am 5'4" tall and about 145lbs. I have thought about selling my frame and getting a buillit, but haven't found one that I want yet for the $ I want to spend. I have also ridden a VPP Free and it was :drool: but again, I don't want to spend that much.

Right now I don't race DH, but have thought about it. IF I were going to, I would keep riding a DH frame, but probably get a lighter one that fits me a little better.
 

Velocity Girl

whack-a-mole
Sep 12, 2001
1,279
0
Atlanta
I'm about 5' 7" and most small frames fit me ok. I started on an modified specialized FSR, went to Haro DHR, Tomac, V10, Nicoal M-pire, now a Turner DHR. By far the Turner DHR has been the bike with the best standover and the lightest (built up just around 40ish pounds right now). The geometry of a bike though can compensate for some weight. My m-pire was around the same weight as my v10 but rode much lighter, but of course the v10 felt indestructable in super rough stuff. My Turner is now a great combo of the two, handles the rough stuff great and is light enough to jump :D


Standover clearance on small frames isn't always the best though, and at 5' 7" I'm guessing shorter gals have an even worse time than me. It's something I've gotten used to over the years, but made things a bit more difficult when I first starting riding. The Turner I'm on now has the best clearance of all the bikes I've been on....I even have enough standover on the medium!

Women are at a power to weight ratio disadvantage compared to the guys, but I wouldn't want to sacrifice performance for weight. I think that's where a good handling bike helps because we can then learn to finesse the bike over obstacles when we can't manhandle it.
 

allsk8sno

Turbo Monkey
Jun 6, 2002
1,153
33
Bellingham, WA
having looked at bike for my wife and such (rainbow_smoke who is 5'1")
i would say it is impossible to truly find a DH frame in the right size
effective TT on a Dh bike is ridiculous, the downtube is more accurate, with interrupted seattubes and slacker seat angles the effective TT can be anywhere from 21-23" on the same size bike of different manufacture(actual geo sizing), where as the downtube will not change,

also i find it interesting that the smallest sizes always have the same chainstay length and while i understand this its just not good for a super short person to have a long stay,

i have almost given up finding a DH frame, though i am intrigued by ironhorse new single pivot, yakuza aniki that comes in 24" wheeled version, that is something i would like to have my wife ride around

the ideal geometry i have come up with for her is
20-20.5 TT actual/eff whatever....
22-23" downtube center bb to center of lower headsetcup
16" cs max for HT and 16-17 cs for around 6" travel
based on around a 15" seattube with full extension or atleast alot of extension
build using 24" wheels

my idea is to possibly have something custom built but $$$$
 

Velocity Girl

whack-a-mole
Sep 12, 2001
1,279
0
Atlanta
allsk8sno brings up a good point about wheelbase. Some small frames still have some pretty long wheelbases which can make it hard for someone smaller. Like all aspects it's that fine line between it being long enough for stability and rolling over stuff, yet short enough to manevuer.
 
Mar 31, 2005
12
0
colorado
i'm on a freeride bike - a petite cannondale prophet... its beefy enough for big hits & light enough to jump for mtn cross too. for being the smallest size they offer, its still a little big for me (5'3", 120lbs). standover is OK, could be better.
 

TreeSaw

Mama Monkey
Oct 30, 2003
17,669
1,847
Dancin' over rocks n' roots!
Velocity Girl said:
allsk8sno brings up a good point about wheelbase. Some small frames still have some pretty long wheelbases which can make it hard for someone smaller. Like all aspects it's that fine line between it being long enough for stability and rolling over stuff, yet short enough to manevuer.
So true! My small Ironhorse has a little longer wheelbase (maybe a half inch to an inch) than my husband's medium bullit.
 

allsk8sno

Turbo Monkey
Jun 6, 2002
1,153
33
Bellingham, WA
yeah i find this disturbing in some ways but i guess a 24" specific dh bike isn't going to sell too well, i just can't see my wife manhandling(womanhandling...) a 40lb dh bike
she has a hard enough time with her 35lb bike, i would like something closer to 30 lbs
 

Velocity Girl

whack-a-mole
Sep 12, 2001
1,279
0
Atlanta
allsk8sno said:
yeah i find this disturbing in some ways but i guess a 24" specific dh bike isn't going to sell too well, i just can't see my wife manhandling(womanhandling...) a 40lb dh bike
she has a hard enough time with her 35lb bike, i would like something closer to 30 lbs

I think when women are starting out this is a much bigger problem than it is for men due to the whole power/weight ratio thang. And although freeride bikes can many times be built up lighter, they don't have the same geometry as a dh bike, so if a full-on dh rig is what you want, we're stuck. There are part alternatives out there to make bikes lighter, but as we all know, the lighter the part the more expensive the part!

But if it makes RS feel any better, tell her it gets easier the longer she rides and the better her skills get. I've ridden with many gals who are smaller than me and riding the same size and/or setup and they can work those bikes incredibly well :thumb:
 

Repack

Turbo Monkey
Nov 29, 2001
1,889
0
Boston Area
I set up a small SGS Pro for my gf. e13 reducer headset, flat crown, and 0-layback seatpost made the cockpit the right lengthm but the rear end was still too long. She's 5'6" I think. Its not so much about the weight of the bike as it is about getting her weight behind the bike' center of gravity in order to get the front wheel up. I would recomend shopping based on 6-7" freeride bike with the shortest possible seat stays, then put a 24" rear wheel on it. The wheel will give it more DH geometry. 7" is plenty for a smaller rider. If you run a 38T ring, you won't have many clearence issues.
I have heard a lot of good things about the 24" framed Specialized Big Hits for smaller riders. The GF King Fisher has the geometry and travel, but the rear stays are WAY too long. I think the Gemeni's are a better choice.
 

Repack

Turbo Monkey
Nov 29, 2001
1,889
0
Boston Area
allsk8sno said:
......

the ideal geometry i have come up with for her is
20-20.5 TT actual/eff whatever....
22-23" downtube center bb to center of lower headsetcup
16" cs max for HT and 16-17 cs for around 6" travel
based on around a 15" seattube with full extension or atleast alot of extension
build using 24" wheels

my idea is to possibly have something custom built but $$$$
A friend of mine build custom DH frames. Basiclt knock-offs of Bullit's w/ 7" of travel. I have though about asking him to build a custom frame for my gf if I ever have the money. I think that the custom geometry might offset the weight. But they are steel.
 

1000-Oaks

Monkey
May 8, 2003
778
0
Simi Valley, CA
Giant made a few size XS downhill frames in 2003/2004-ish, every once in awhile you'll see them for sale. Looks like a good ride with the blue 7" Dorado.
 

altagirl

Monkey
Aug 27, 2002
160
0
Utah
1000-Oaks said:
Giant made a few size XS downhill frames in 2003/2004-ish, every once in awhile you'll see them for sale. Looks like a good ride with the blue 7" Dorado.
I remember seeing a few of those on e-bay when I was buying my DH Team. I have a Medium though. (I'm 5'8") My first DH bike was a Medium RM9 - with a Monster T. That thing weighed like 50lbs - but I could steamroll over stuff... It's definitely easier to ride my Giant, and it's lighter and smaller for sure - shorter too - the wheelbase must be 4" shorter.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
For some really small bikes you may want to look at the orange patriot and 223 series bikes. I am 5'5" 145 and it fits me like a glove.

The TT length is perfect for a 50mm stem, BB height gives it a great standover (about an inch of spare room for me) and the wheelbase is actually proportional to the bike size, unlike most "small" bikes that are simply shorter then their big brothers.

pics below shows how small the bike really is:

 

DH Diva

Wonderwoman
Jun 12, 2002
1,808
1
Transcend said:
For some really small bikes you may want to look at the orange patriot and 223 series bikes. I am 5'5" 145 and it fits me like a glove.

The TT length is perfect for a 50mm stem, BB height gives it a great standover (about an inch of spare room for me) and the wheelbase is actually proportional to the bike size, unlike most "small" bikes that are simply shorter then their big brothers.

pics below shows how small the bike really is:

Hee Hee! Fraser's "little." Just joking with you, since I've never met you in person I just never pictured you being on the "shorter" side, and you sure talk big ;). Hey, you still got height on me!
 

Spunger

Git yer dumb questions here
Feb 19, 2003
2,257
0
805
DH Diva said:
Hee Hee! Fraser's "little." Just joking with you, since I've never met you in person I just never pictured you being on the "shorter" side, and you sure talk big ;)
I was gonna say the same thing.......5'5's short for a guy. But hey we're all different :)

I've been toying with the idea on getting my girlfriend setup on a some sort of a decent bike, maybe a more capable trail rig then a full DH bike (even though that's what I'd ride) but for the weight problems. She's short as well (5'3). I thought about a small bullit and set it up with a 66VF or something (just inexpensive 6" travel fork) and a EX721 wheelset, Common parts and such, but put a DRS on it so she'd have the gears incase she had to pedal.

I'm glad I fit all Med/Lg frames, but I can see it being really frustrating being on the shorter side and hoping that a small is really small enough because not all companies have a XS. Titus would, but I dunno how much they'd charge for a custom small frame.

I agree though, even a small can have a longish wheelbase which sorta hinders buying a small in the first place.
 

1000-Oaks

Monkey
May 8, 2003
778
0
Simi Valley, CA
My GF is 5'/116 lbs and currently has a 17" Giant AC Air set up for DH. I re-drilled the lower shock mount about 3/8" lower, which dropped the BB about 3/4" and really slacked out the 71* headtube angle.



It helped a lot, but the standover is still a bit too tall for her. I'm thinking we could do a similar re-drill to the 15" Kona Stinky frame and end up with some good DH geometry and lower standover.
 

allsk8sno

Turbo Monkey
Jun 6, 2002
1,153
33
Bellingham, WA
ironhorse has some small bikes too, stinky's are limited horribly by the up swing of the linkage making the seat be raised up higher than it would have to be otherwise
 

allsk8sno

Turbo Monkey
Jun 6, 2002
1,153
33
Bellingham, WA
springs can be changed easily, stick to geometry issues. the stinky's are pretty good really but i would stick to the older ones, the new ones would require a higher seat adjustment due to the linkages coming up to the seat.
interestingly enough i think for smaller riders so far the simple single pivot design has the best options, fairly light, simple and full adjust seatpost(in most cases)

coming back to this still makes me think of the ironhors line of bullit like bikes. if i had the money i would buy one for Zoae in a heartbeat, but the giant warp is working for now, and it seems to fit her pretty well now that she is more comfortable riding. i think it is highly overlooked for female riders wanting some cush as well, since its cheap and the TT is pretty short for the 15.5" size, its still more of an XC bike but if she isn't leaving the ground its gonna be fine, plus it's geometry was pretty good with a jr't (older style).

oh and for the spring rate, yeah it was way over sprung for my wife with a 650lb spring stock on the small, but alil shopping around found us a 550 that is perfect for DH and the 650 she can use for XC riding, also her bike built up with the jrt weighed in at 35lbs which is pretty good for a lighter/smaller rider. now it has a psylo and i suspect is about 32lbs

anyways i still find if funny some "smalls" have only adjusted seatmasts and little else, truely a "small" should incorporate a downsizing on all major geometries. not just the TT and stand over,

rant over....
 

daydreamer

Chimp
Jun 17, 2005
3
0
I'm 5'4", 125 lb. This year I got a Kona Coiler - not a full on downhill bike, but a great allrounder. Beefy enough, for my needs, and I think for a lot of smaller women. I don't think we need the beefiness of some of the downhill bikes out there. I love the slack geometry, and it feels wonderfully solid and confidence-inspiring on fast descents, rails around corners, dances through rough stuff, is happy to pop off little rises, sucks up little drops (I imagine it sucks up big drops too - it's just me that doesn't...) Bonus is that it's 36 lbs, so can still climb well without being toooo heavy. Unfortunately, same problem as with a lot of downhill bikes, not great standover, even on my small 15" frame. Also, I wouldn't mind a teeny bit more room in the cockpit, but I'm pretty long in the torso, and short in the legs. (Hence the standover problem I guess!) The Norco Six was better standover-wise, rode well, but was a little heavier than I wanted, and the Specialized Big Hit felt comfy, like others have said. However, a big factor for me was the great price of the Coiler - way less than many other bikes I was interested in, and it did all that I wanted it to do, and then some. I'll likely need some upgrades as I go, but I think the frame will last a long time. And I may try a 24" wheel to give a little more standover.
 
Jul 17, 2003
832
0
Salt Lake City
Krispy who works here is about 5'4" or so, and he fits pretty well on small DH frames from Foes, Turner, and Ventana. The Turner has the best standover of the bunch, but I wouldn't recommend a 24" setup on either of those bikes unless you're going to run a shorter fork (888 with flat crowns, etc) and a 24" up front as well. You'd have to run 165mm cranks to keep your ground clearance up, and even then I think pedals would be hitting fairly regularly.
 

allsk8sno

Turbo Monkey
Jun 6, 2002
1,153
33
Bellingham, WA
if you have shorter legs then 165mm cranks is the way to go.
also on the coiler the 24" would slacken the bike nicely for more dh stuff. the stock HA on those is like 69 or something with a 5" fork, and if the 24" is a rhynolite then you'll likely loose a little bit of weight(depending on tire)

i personally like short bikes so at 5'10" i ride a medium/small bike and so i seem to think everyone likes smaller bikes..which is not the cass....I will say this again though, i think i stated it earlier anywys...the guy at 5'4" can ride a small, that is great. but he can muscle the bike around more than a woman can(ingeneral based on upper body strength) where as women are more finess riders(so i hear...) and so they need to have a bike that fits them and isn't so long they cant pull the front wheel up (or too heavy!) but anyways i need to go ride or something...
 

amydalayna

Turbo Monkey
Aug 16, 2005
1,507
0
south lake tahoe, ca
allsk8sno said:
i personally like short bikes so at 5'10" i ride a medium/small bike and so i seem to think everyone likes smaller bikes..which is not the cass....I will say this again though, i think i stated it earlier anywys...the guy at 5'4" can ride a small, that is great. but he can muscle the bike around more than a woman can(ingeneral based on upper body strength) where as women are more finess riders(so i hear...) and so they need to have a bike that fits them and isn't so long they cant pull the front wheel up (or too heavy!) but anyways i need to go ride or something...
so... i'm like 5'9"ish and my medium bullit fits me perfectly. seriously. and i really don't feel like it's too much bike for me to finesse. I taked it on most xc rides too... maybe that has helped my comfort with it. What I find hard, is finding good dh clothes... shoes, shorts, etc.... most women's mtn bike shorts are too short. any thoughts???
 

allsk8sno

Turbo Monkey
Jun 6, 2002
1,153
33
Bellingham, WA
yeah, women specific body armor is non existant unless the dirtgirl site finally put some into production. my wife is running a small 661 pressure suit with the waist strap sewn up since her torso is pretty short(she is 5'2"), it fits ok but the arms are still a tad long and the shoulders are a little big
 

amydalayna

Turbo Monkey
Aug 16, 2005
1,507
0
south lake tahoe, ca
allsk8sno said:
yeah, women specific body armor is non existant unless the dirtgirl site finally put some into production. my wife is running a small 661 pressure suit with the waist strap sewn up since her torso is pretty short(she is 5'2"), it fits ok but the arms are still a tad long and the shoulders are a little big
i have the 661 assualt suit. i got it so that i could get elbow pads seperate. suit fits good, but i have the smallest roach elbow pads and they do not fit my upper arms. roach knee pads are WONDERFUL though.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
Women looking for a DH frame might do well to talk to BCD and get a custom carbon-fiber frame made.

Metal is a pretty small dude (he must be like 135 lbs soaking wet or something...) and loves his. They're light and can be made very, very small. Run one of these with a single-crown 7"-8" fork; it'd be a kickass race bike!

Doesn't Titus make a really small DH frame, too?

MD
 

Repack

Turbo Monkey
Nov 29, 2001
1,889
0
Boston Area
Don't know if this has been covered yet but I just replaced the pos Azonic post that came on my gf's IH SGS Pro with a Thompson-style post. The Azonic has a long layed-back taper. Actually, I used a shim and a 27.2mm Bontrager. The 29.8mm posts that I have found have all been expensive. It shortened the bike by 1" and dropped the seat by 2". Cockpit length is now <21" and seat height (to the top of the seat) is 20" with some more room for shortening.
This is with e13 reducers and a very short (but not shortest) stem. The e13 hs, flat crown, and short stem dropped the hb by 1.5" and shortened the reach by 1".
This sort of mod is possible on other bikes and worth checking out. But remember that front-center distance is the ultimate determinent in how the bike will ride (bb to f axle).
 

TreeSaw

Mama Monkey
Oct 30, 2003
17,669
1,847
Dancin' over rocks n' roots!
amydalayna said:
so... i'm like 5'9"ish and my medium bullit fits me perfectly. seriously. and i really don't feel like it's too much bike for me to finesse. I taked it on most xc rides too... maybe that has helped my comfort with it. What I find hard, is finding good dh clothes... shoes, shorts, etc.... most women's mtn bike shorts are too short. any thoughts???
I am totally with you there. Women's specific armor and clothing (DH) are too short and tight in the hips, but the men's are way too big and sag too much in the butt (I always manage to get them caught on my seat). I have had good luck with some Azonic shorts though (can't remember the model name).
 
Jul 17, 2003
832
0
Salt Lake City
TreeSaw said:
I am totally with you there. Women's specific armor and clothing (DH) are too short and tight in the hips, but the men's are way too big and sag too much in the butt (I always manage to get them caught on my seat). I have had good luck with some Azonic shorts though (can't remember the model name).
Troy Lee Designs is going to have some women's specific gear for next year, but I think they're only doing MX pants. You could probably get them tailored into shorts if you wanted to. I think Fox and Thor might do some women's gear as well. As for armor . . . not sure what to suggest there.
 

amydalayna

Turbo Monkey
Aug 16, 2005
1,507
0
south lake tahoe, ca
James | Go-Ride said:
Troy Lee Designs is going to have some women's specific gear for next year, but I think they're only doing MX pants. You could probably get them tailored into shorts if you wanted to. I think Fox and Thor might do some women's gear as well. As for armor . . . not sure what to suggest there.
has anyone given the corerat shorts a try?
http://www.corerat.com/
angie ho is pretty cool and i live to give her any support that i can. the only thing is they are like $100.
 

TreeSaw

Mama Monkey
Oct 30, 2003
17,669
1,847
Dancin' over rocks n' roots!
James | Go-Ride said:
Troy Lee Designs is going to have some women's specific gear for next year, but I think they're only doing MX pants. You could probably get them tailored into shorts if you wanted to. I think Fox and Thor might do some women's gear as well. As for armor . . . not sure what to suggest there.
I generally find the FOX Women's gear too short and tight...I am not out to pick up guys while I am riding. I definitely want function! I have a pair of FOX MX pants for DHing and they are HUGE. I actually bought a pair of AXO pants for DHing that work well though. I will have to look into the Thor stuff...thanks for the tip! Right now I need to find some armor that really fits. I have a 661 chest protector that is too big for me :(
 

amydalayna

Turbo Monkey
Aug 16, 2005
1,507
0
south lake tahoe, ca
TreeSaw said:
I generally find the FOX Women's gear too short and tight...I am not out to pick up guys while I am riding. I definitely want function! I have a pair of FOX MX pants for DHing and they are HUGE. I actually bought a pair of AXO pants for DHing that work well though. I will have to look into the Thor stuff...thanks for the tip! Right now I need to find some armor that really fits. I have a 661 chest protector that is too big for me :(
ick. i know. i don't need to wear snug fitting baby blue shorts out on the trail.... i like shorts that are log enough to come to the top of my knee pads. i wear the 661 assault chest protector and it fits well around my mid section, but too loose at the shoulders.
the women's sombrio shorts look pretty nice. does anyone have them?
 

redFoxx

Monkey
Apr 15, 2005
319
0
Seattle
Hi all, I'm new here and finding some great topics and posts from women who like the harder core mountain biking, yeah!

I've got the Sombrio shorts that I bought this summer up at Whistler. I think they're the men's small, though, which is what I usually buy. I like these shorts alot, in fact they're my favorite. I just never buy women's bike shorts anymore, way too skimpy, short, and generally you can't find them in the heavier materials. I also wear Fox's Huck shorts and I like the material of these and that they're long, although the small is a tad large. In general, I'm frustrated with the lack of good women's dh/fr bike clothing.

It's also hard to find good armor that isn't too large. I'm 5'7" and 135 lbs. The Roach DH leg armor in small is still huge and I get alot of chafing. I'd love to try the junior sizes but can't find any shops that have them. I just got the 661 Assault chest protector and it's fine in the chest but big in the shoulders so my jersey is very tight.

At least I have better luck with bikes. I just got the '05 Norco 6 and love it, but it's damn heavy at 43lbs. Yet I take it on all the XC rides I do now because it's so fun. It climbs well just not fast, and is very maneuverable so I can catch up to people on the technical stuff. I think it's just a matter of time before I'm starting to pass some of the guys up....I have to consider it strength training... :rolleyes:
 

1000-Oaks

Monkey
May 8, 2003
778
0
Simi Valley, CA
Update on some bikes with really low standover:

'05 Big Hit Grom (24" wheels, single chainring)
Turner Rail (1.5" headtube)
Iron Horse Yakuza Aniki 24 (24" wheels)

Gary Fisher Cake GS (13" frame, 5" travel, really for XC)
Jamis XLT (13" frame, for all-mountain, 69 degree head tube angle but 5" travel)
 

1000-Oaks

Monkey
May 8, 2003
778
0
Simi Valley, CA
Spam warning:

My 5' girlfriend is selling her 17" Giant AC Air frame, which has been professionally modified to lower the top tube 3/4" and slacken the head tube angle to an ideal 69 degrees. (It still wasn't low enough though, now she has a 13" frame.)

This frame is perfect for any Hunnies 5'2" and up, who want to build a trail / freeride / light DH bike without spending a whole lot of cash.

http://www.ridemonkey.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=1173&cat=500

Spam off.
 
L

luelling

Guest
I think to find a bike to fit you need to just check out different companies. I was racing a medium Mountain Cycle 9.5 and I owned a medium DHI and then I bought an intense m3 and the Intense frame (in medium size) was waaaaay longer. The older Iron Horse frames (SGS) are small......I can't speak for the DW Link frames. I've run into the same problem with my girl, and shes around 5' 7"....its hard finding a bike you are comfortable on.