Go look at a few different manufacturers weights on the exact same tires with steel vs kevlar bead. it's around 60g per tire. I'm not to blame if your reading comprehension fails you. My only fantasy is you pulling your head out of your ass.Yeah. The fantasy that spewed from your keyboard after the quotation marks.
The Tough Casing is fairly sturdy, I have nothing resembling a tear or a cut in them. The tread cap had a bunch of splits in them, all w/o a puncture; not-a-one in regards to knobby separation BTW.I kinda had the same issue with my new Nobby Nic's this year. (fwiw, I find the tread/block pattern to be very similar). But the big blocks (what gives them grip) also tend to get hung up on shit and get pulled out of the casing. I've experienced a number of flats with them this year due to the intermediate knobs getting lifted out of the casing. I was hoping the Tough Vigilante, with its dual 60tpi casing, would alleviate that. The tire is ordered, I will be finding out next year I guess...
Gary is from the 1800s, his posts are written on parchment and sent by carrier pidgeon to a parchment2forum service where his writing is published to the intertron. What you're asking of him is a little unfair and likely impossible.Go look at a few different manufacturers weights on the exact same tires with steel vs kevlar bead. it's around 60g per tire. I'm not to blame if your reading comprehension fails you. My only fantasy is you pulling your head out of your ass.
Haha you're a good sport. Maybe you're actually a time machine.I'm actually from the 1400s, My thoughts are written on silk underwear in the blood of virgins before being sent by Vampire Bat to a shaman who forwards my wisdom telepathically via a portal.
You have the scales and the tyres, Chop the steel bead out of one and be that dork Udi. It's why we love you. xx
Throw them into a fire.It's actually really hard to cut through tires, full DH casings and steel beads are pretty tough.
How do you do that with the kevlar ones for a fair comparison though?Throw them into a fire.
Wait and enjoy your secret inner pyromaniac.
Recover steel beads.
Weigh.
Yeah I agree - but that's because the casings are always compromised (by manufacturer choice), the loss of sidewall rigidity isn't because of the bead itself, the bead and rim act as a rigid body together in most scenarios to my knowledge regardless of material.I actually agree with you in principle Udi. Of course there has to be a lighter alternative to steel for DH tyre beads. But having never ever felt a folding tyre with the same sidewall rigidity as it's wire bead counterpart I'd prefer the alternative not to be a floppy folding version. (some, especially lighter riders, may like the more supple sidewall, for DH I definitely don't).
Yeah. I know. which is why I doubt anywhere near a 60g saving is achievable per tyre and still retain that rigidity.the casings are always compromised (by manufacturer choice), the loss of sidewall rigidity isn't because of the bead itselfl
No, the rigidity comes from the casing (not the bead) - and the 60g quoted is the saving between tyres using the same casing - see the post above yours. That is the difference in the bead alone, so it's a practically useful value. The bead only needs reinforcement if you're ripping/stretching tyres off rims under cornering but I haven't managed that on the EXOs (on trailbike) yet anyway so I doubt much if any change is necessary when porting that bead over to a full DH tyre.Yeah. I know. which is why I doubt anywhere near a 60g saving is achievable per tyre and still retain that rigidity.
Hmmm... interesting. Perhaps I will try one of the less-beefy versions as a front tire...Those are a really, really good tire (put one up front, the cornering traction is nuts) but they're definitely not as tough a casing as a real DH tire. I'd put them somewhere between that and the Maxxis Exo.
Hmmm... interesting. Perhaps I will try one of the less-beefy versions as a front tire...
You seriously believe Schwalbe's weight claims? They differ by 100 g for the same model/size (=identical) tire and never match their claimed weight.My data came from the Schwalbe website since they are easy to read and compare. The knobby Nic 26x2.1 performance dual compound in kevlar vs. steel bead weigh 550g/610g respectively.
You seriously believe Schwalbe's weight claims? They differ by 100 g for the same model/size (=identical) tire and never match their claimed weight.
The list I'm looking at has 5 different models to choose from.
There isn't a less beefy version.
3 diameter options, and 2 rubber compounds for each. The casings are the same, and weights are about the same for both tread compounds.The list I'm looking at has 5 different models to choose from.
I'm seeing a 2.4 model that is 200g lighter than the one I got. Older model, perhaps? No way it has the beefier casing.3 diameter options, and 2 rubber compounds for each. The casings are the same, and weights are about the same for both tread
That's the Wild RockR, not the Wild RockR 2. Completely different, and much worse tread pattern.I'llI'm seeing a 2.4 model that is 200g lighter than the one I got. Older model, perhaps? No way it has the beefier casing.
I love the WTB TCS Tough casings. I've been using the 2.5" Breakout on my enduro bike all season. It's not quite a DH tire but plenty burly and I haven't had a problem doing many runs down DH courses at resorts on my Nomad at speeds that would probably win any amateur DH race.http://www.wtb.com/products/vigilante
I thought I read somewhere that the TCS Tough is dual casing... but I can't seem to find that anywhere now. I rode the TCS light as a front tire and it was fine, and I've just ordered a TCS tough to see what it's all about. I'll update once I get my hands on it.
I think my puncture experience with EXOs has been about the same as your's but when those punctures cost me races they're unacceptable. Also, I had to run 28-29psi front and 33-34 rear to avoid rim crunching bottom outs. The WTB TCS Tough Breakouts went all season without a puncture and I ran 23-24 front, 27-28 rear and got way more traction with only a couple maybe rim hits that left no sign. Totally worth the weight gain.You people must be much faster than me or not nearly as smooth because I have had very few problems with exo casings riding some pretty rocky stuff....Ive poked a few holes in the tread and maybe twice at the bead but 90% of those times I was getting a little too low on the psi and only with rear tires...I ride allot and out of the 25 or so worn exo tires in my garage less than 5 have plugs in them.....I do swap rear tires every month or so or about 16-20 rides so that might have something to do with it...maybe they start to break down after awhile
I have their new mud DH/Enduro tire but haven't had to use it yet (I have used their new XC tire and it's the best XC tire I've ever felt). I'm friends with their new tire designer. He used to work for Maxxis. He told me this tire has a full DH casing and it has kevlar beads. But the tread really is for mud or soft soil only.I just did some reading up on Vittoria Graphene tires and it sounds like they have many benefits that would improve aggressive MTB tires in terms of grip, rolling resistance, durability and weight. Reviews are just starting to come around: http://www.outsideonline.com/2028771/vittoria-mezcal-g-tires-review
Maybe it did? Intense tires made those dual ply foldable DH tires. They still were not light, but the kevlar bead got their weights down to normal levels at least. I love(d) those 909 and Intruders.Unfortunatly what Udi is asking for doesn't exist....
I have their new mud DH/Enduro tire but haven't had to use it yet. This tire has a full DH casing and it has kevlar beads. But the tread really is for mud or soft soil only.
You totally contradicted yourself and I want to try that tire. The Jafaki? Please suggest to your friend a combination of a few Vittoria tire names for his next design: Peyote Booze Tattoo has a nice ring dontchathink?Unfortunatly what Udi is asking for doesn't exist but WTB TCS Tough, Schwalbe Supergravity, and Maxxis Double Down are as close as we'll get until World Cup racers start asking for kevlar beads.
I actually saved 100g over my old one and performance seems similar so far, that was the whole point of this thread (i.e. bead material doesn't really affect performance but casing does).There is no cheating with tires. Want performance? It's going to cost in weight.