Why is nobody talking about the Manitou Dorado Expert?
- Thread starter 0110-M-P
- Start date
I thought Manitou had a bad rep for cracking at the Hex Lock thingy, and bushing play and snapping arches and the only pair I ever owned dislodged a bush mid ride cause the fork to flop around like crazy but they were from when Jesus was a lad.
I'd buy another pair but our distributor is pretty average.
I'd buy another pair but our distributor is pretty average.
First let me say I own a manitou Nixon Intrinsic with MARS hybrid air/coil spring, rode a Sherman Slider with TPC+ for a few years and now have a 2010 Dorado Pro on my Downhill bike for two seasons. Before that I had one of that old Boxxers with Push Rebound and Manitou/Ridemonkey Mod Compression circuit.
You can feel that the Dorado is an air sprung fork, not because of stiction, but you will notice the different spring characteristic.
Stiction is absolutely not an issue or let's say only with new seals and wipers. I had problems with a leaking air cartridge this season. Put a new unit in, because I did not have the time to send the fork in or mess around with new seals. Spare parts are cheap.
I am always amazed how clean the internals and oils are even after a full and pretty muddy season. The Boxxer looked worse even when I serviced it three times a year.
After the first season I had massive bushing play, but the german distro gave me new uppers.
The hydraulic bottom out circuit is nice. Feels bottomless.
You can feel that the Dorado is an air sprung fork, not because of stiction, but you will notice the different spring characteristic.
Stiction is absolutely not an issue or let's say only with new seals and wipers. I had problems with a leaking air cartridge this season. Put a new unit in, because I did not have the time to send the fork in or mess around with new seals. Spare parts are cheap.
I am always amazed how clean the internals and oils are even after a full and pretty muddy season. The Boxxer looked worse even when I serviced it three times a year.
After the first season I had massive bushing play, but the german distro gave me new uppers.
The hydraulic bottom out circuit is nice. Feels bottomless.
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Guess it is good to see that everyone still agrees that the Dorado is a great fork. Hopefully with the release of the Expert I will see more on the mountain this year.
Well, took me long enough to wait out the current Dorado incarnation but I've always liked the TPC+ damper.
Finally bit the bullet and purchased one 2 months ago and so far, I'm very impressed.
I like how smooth the fork is compared to the Boxxer WC I have been on for 2.5 yrs.
The only thing that's left to wonder is reliability. Serviceability should not be an issue as I'm very familiar with Manitou platform. I have observed a small leak from the seals on the damper side after prolonged storage. I don't observe the leak at all during rides. I will open it up and clean thoroughly first to see if there was just something that got wedged in between the oil seal and stanchion (grit, etc). Nonetheless, Manitou sent me a seal kit to replace it if for some reason there was just premature wear. Good CS -checked.
Loving the fork so far....
Finally bit the bullet and purchased one 2 months ago and so far, I'm very impressed.
I like how smooth the fork is compared to the Boxxer WC I have been on for 2.5 yrs.
The only thing that's left to wonder is reliability. Serviceability should not be an issue as I'm very familiar with Manitou platform. I have observed a small leak from the seals on the damper side after prolonged storage. I don't observe the leak at all during rides. I will open it up and clean thoroughly first to see if there was just something that got wedged in between the oil seal and stanchion (grit, etc). Nonetheless, Manitou sent me a seal kit to replace it if for some reason there was just premature wear. Good CS -checked.
Loving the fork so far....
http://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/Forks,33/Manitou/Dorado-Expert,11885
Tested: Manitou Dorado Expert - A Worthy Contender”
Review by Sean “Griz” McClendon // Photos by Brandon Turman
Manitou has been in the mountain bike suspension game for over 20-years. During the last decade, Hayes Bicycle Group (now Hayes Components) acquired Manitou, and in 2010, under new ownership, Manitou launched a completely redesigned version of the Dorado. Boasting larger stanchions, an improved chassis, new internals, and a new air system, the latest design has improved across the board.
When first reintroduced, the 2010 Dorado was only available in the uber expensive carbon variety. Later in the year they released an aluminum Dorado Pro version at $1600. Now for 2013, Manitou is introducing an even more affordable Dorado Expert at $1200. While there are some slight differences between the Pro and Expert, the internals are exactly the same, making the Expert well worth a look. With its inverted design and proven TPC+ damping, we were eager to get our hands on one to put through a good thrashing.
Dorado Expert Highlights
6.82-pounds (3096 grams)
180 or 203mm of internally adjustable travel
Large volume air spring
Externally adjustable high-speed, TPC+, and rebound damping
Hydraulic bottom-out and top-out control
36mm stanchion tubes
1 1/8-inch aluminum steerer
HexLock 20mm thru-axle
567 or 591mm axle-to-crown height
Short or tall crown options
MSRP $1,200 USD
Dorado Expert Vs. Pro
So what's different between the Dorado Expert and Pro? From a distance, you'd be hard pressed to tell which fork was which. For starters, the crowns and dropouts on the Expert are shot peened instead of anodized - result: a little less bling. Next, the crowns on the Expert undergo less machining, which leaves more material - result: a little more weight. Finally, the aluminum used in the outer tubes of the Expert is a lower grade, which means the walls had to be thickened slightly to achieve the same strength - result: again, more weight. All said and done, the total weight gain is 0.27 pounds (122.3 grams). For the $400 you save, you could easily purchase a titanium spring for your rear shock and save more total weight. Not bad.
As we mentioned before, the two forks are identical internally. The Dorado uses a twin tube style cartridge, which essentially means that air can't go into the damping circuits, keeping them free of gas bubbles and allowing damping to stay consistent.
Speaking of damping, there are four different types of compression damping circuits in the fork. The first is the spring-loaded, pressure dependent high-speed circuit. The second and third types both result from Manitou's TPC+ damping. There's a second piston on compression assembly that moves back and forth a little bit with a bypass to the high-speed circuit. Slow compressions don't fully engage the TPC+ circuit, and neither do small square edge hits. This keeps the fork supple. When the fork experiences a high enough velocity for a long enough stroke duration, the TPC+ circuit closes the high-speed bypass, engaging a second shim stack and making the damping firmer. Manitou calls this energy dependent. At the same time, a tapered needle in the TPC+ circuit makes it velocity dependent as well. The fourth damping circuit is position dependent and comes in the form of the hydraulic bottom out, which only responds when the fork is deep in its travel.
It all sounds complicated, and it is, but the end result is a fork that is suited to a wide variety of terrain conditions without fiddling with adjustments too much.
For 2013, both forks will be available in 26-inch, 650B, and 29-inch wheelsize options. Note that while it's possible to use the 26-inch fork with a 650B wheel, the outer legs on the 650B model will be unique to the wheelsize. The internals are the same between both the 26-inch and 650B forks.
Now then, how does it ride?
On The Trail
We ran the Dorado in the 203mm travel setting for the duration of testing. In this travel setting, the axle to crown length is 591mm – that's 20mm longer than the FOX 40 we swapped out - so the first thing we did was toss in a zero-stack lower headset cup in our Pivot Phoenix test sled. Even with the zero-stack cup, our head angle raked out to 63.5º from 64º. The next step was to get a lower rise bar. We opted for the low-rise Deity Black Label bar and Fantom stem in the 55mm setting. This combo of low-rise bar and 5mm longer stem provided a similar cockpit feel to the FOX 40 it replaced.
During installation, we noticed that Manitou was thorough in torque spec guidance and even includes a spacer in the lower crown to optimize clamp force. This is important because it ensures the clamping force around the legs isn't too tight, restricting the movement of the fork. Smart.
Manitou states the Dorado has a 20-hour break in period. During this time we ran the damper settings more open with a higher air pressure. As the damping felt juicier, we settled into an air pressure of 70psi for a geared rider weight of 175-pounds, 8/20 clicks of rebound, 10/20 clicks on the TPC+ dial, and 12/16 clicks of high-speed compression. At those settings, the Dorado has a very nice bottomless feel. Spiking is a suspension symptom we never found with the Dorado.
We found that the TPC+ damping plays a huge role in the way the fork performs in various conditions. For jumping we would ramp up the TPC+ dial to 18/20 clicks and in wet conditions we’d back the TPC+ down to 8/20 clicks for added front wheel traction and small bump compliance. Regardless of the TPC+ setting, the fork is supple, plush, and asks to be ridden intensely.
Coming from the super rigid FOX 40, it took several weeks to develop the confidence it took to start smashing the front wheel into compressions on steep terrain. Why? Because there's a noticeable bit of flex to this fork. In contrast to the FOX 40, we noticed less fatigue on the upper body – primarily the shoulders – thanks to the force deflection that comes with an inverted fork. It is no coincidence motocross bikes utilize inverted forks. A degree of flex translates into force deflection. In the Dorado’s case, this small degree of flex translates into less force into rider hands, arms and joints with increased front wheel traction – the fork handles more of the work for you.
That said, the Dorado still gave incredible feedback on off-camber lines with rocky and rooted compressions. In this scenario the last thing you want is for your front wheel to deflect and throw you off line and the Dorado still excelled in this situation. We loved how you could aim your front wheel into the nastiest technical lines with precision.
Having heard a lot of complaints from heavier, World Cup pace riders about a reported “wallowing” feel, we're of the opinion that riders under 185-pounds will experience optimum benefit from the inverted design. We’re coming from a lighter point-of-view and attest to the benefit of the Dorado’s force deflection in our GoPro footage. We left a few whips out with zero high-sides. We were straightened out every time and loved this about the Dorado. If you do weigh more than 185-pounds and aren’t riding at World Cup pace, you won’t push the fork to the point of a “wallowing” feel and will also reap the benefits of minimal front tire deflection. Logan Binggeli rode a Dorado to 3rd place at Rampage in 2012, so we also know it can perform in the most dangerous discipline in mountain biking, too.
Things That Could Be Improved
One thing that could use some attention is the axle system.
Manitou’s HexLock axle requires attention to detail, a fair bit of effort when removing the front wheel, and even more attention when installing it. The axle is not self-extracting and you'll need tools to remove it, so we recommend keeping the axle well lubricated – white lithium grease worked well and it’s cheap at your local shop - to ease the task of extraction and installation. Whatever the solution is to maintain structural integrity with a self-extracting axle would be greatly appreciated.
If you run your front brake on the right-hand side, the stock front brake cable routing guide is perfect. If you run your front brake on the left-hand side, American style, the routing leaves a bit to be desired.
Long Term Durability
In general it's a solid package, but we did have one issue early on. After riding in varied conditions, some of which were muddy, at about the 25-hour mark of ride time we ended up blowing the damper side dust seal. We continued to ride the fork for another 35-hours as oil continued to leak. Manitou was quick to respond and sent out a replacement damper leg that has performed flawlessly in 30-hours of ride time.
Could this have been a fluke? It's certainly possible. We weren’t able to cause any terminal damage to the Dorado and Manitou backs their products with an excellent service package, so keep that in mind as well.
After 90-hours of ride time we were able to get the rear brake cable to wear on the anodizing of the lower crown, but it was nothing to cry about. A little tape, vinyl or Velcro solves this issue.
Finally, one quick tip that could save you a headache - be sure to snug the small bolts on the fork guards often, or consider adding Loc-Tite to the threads for a set and forget solution.
What’s The Bottom Line?
We're impressed with the wide range of adjustments in damping, rebound control, and overall performance of the Dorado Expert. At $1200 and 6.82-pounds, the Dorado Expert has a very high price point to performance ratio for a downhill fork. With its proven TPC+ damping, the Dorado is supple through chatter, plush yet supportive through high-speed compressions, and offers Velcro-like traction that certainly stands out in technical off-camber situations. Complete with a limited warranty, impressive service package, and a detailed owner's manual, it's certainly a fork to consider, especially if you weigh less than 185-pounds.
Manitou plans on attending the 2013 Sea Otter Classic and several ProGRT events for you national racers looking for tech support. Check them out at the races or www.manitoumtb.com.
Tested: Manitou Dorado Expert - A Worthy Contender”
Review by Sean “Griz” McClendon // Photos by Brandon Turman
Manitou has been in the mountain bike suspension game for over 20-years. During the last decade, Hayes Bicycle Group (now Hayes Components) acquired Manitou, and in 2010, under new ownership, Manitou launched a completely redesigned version of the Dorado. Boasting larger stanchions, an improved chassis, new internals, and a new air system, the latest design has improved across the board.
When first reintroduced, the 2010 Dorado was only available in the uber expensive carbon variety. Later in the year they released an aluminum Dorado Pro version at $1600. Now for 2013, Manitou is introducing an even more affordable Dorado Expert at $1200. While there are some slight differences between the Pro and Expert, the internals are exactly the same, making the Expert well worth a look. With its inverted design and proven TPC+ damping, we were eager to get our hands on one to put through a good thrashing.
Dorado Expert Highlights
6.82-pounds (3096 grams)
180 or 203mm of internally adjustable travel
Large volume air spring
Externally adjustable high-speed, TPC+, and rebound damping
Hydraulic bottom-out and top-out control
36mm stanchion tubes
1 1/8-inch aluminum steerer
HexLock 20mm thru-axle
567 or 591mm axle-to-crown height
Short or tall crown options
MSRP $1,200 USD
Dorado Expert Vs. Pro
So what's different between the Dorado Expert and Pro? From a distance, you'd be hard pressed to tell which fork was which. For starters, the crowns and dropouts on the Expert are shot peened instead of anodized - result: a little less bling. Next, the crowns on the Expert undergo less machining, which leaves more material - result: a little more weight. Finally, the aluminum used in the outer tubes of the Expert is a lower grade, which means the walls had to be thickened slightly to achieve the same strength - result: again, more weight. All said and done, the total weight gain is 0.27 pounds (122.3 grams). For the $400 you save, you could easily purchase a titanium spring for your rear shock and save more total weight. Not bad.
As we mentioned before, the two forks are identical internally. The Dorado uses a twin tube style cartridge, which essentially means that air can't go into the damping circuits, keeping them free of gas bubbles and allowing damping to stay consistent.
Speaking of damping, there are four different types of compression damping circuits in the fork. The first is the spring-loaded, pressure dependent high-speed circuit. The second and third types both result from Manitou's TPC+ damping. There's a second piston on compression assembly that moves back and forth a little bit with a bypass to the high-speed circuit. Slow compressions don't fully engage the TPC+ circuit, and neither do small square edge hits. This keeps the fork supple. When the fork experiences a high enough velocity for a long enough stroke duration, the TPC+ circuit closes the high-speed bypass, engaging a second shim stack and making the damping firmer. Manitou calls this energy dependent. At the same time, a tapered needle in the TPC+ circuit makes it velocity dependent as well. The fourth damping circuit is position dependent and comes in the form of the hydraulic bottom out, which only responds when the fork is deep in its travel.
It all sounds complicated, and it is, but the end result is a fork that is suited to a wide variety of terrain conditions without fiddling with adjustments too much.
For 2013, both forks will be available in 26-inch, 650B, and 29-inch wheelsize options. Note that while it's possible to use the 26-inch fork with a 650B wheel, the outer legs on the 650B model will be unique to the wheelsize. The internals are the same between both the 26-inch and 650B forks.
Now then, how does it ride?
On The Trail
We ran the Dorado in the 203mm travel setting for the duration of testing. In this travel setting, the axle to crown length is 591mm – that's 20mm longer than the FOX 40 we swapped out - so the first thing we did was toss in a zero-stack lower headset cup in our Pivot Phoenix test sled. Even with the zero-stack cup, our head angle raked out to 63.5º from 64º. The next step was to get a lower rise bar. We opted for the low-rise Deity Black Label bar and Fantom stem in the 55mm setting. This combo of low-rise bar and 5mm longer stem provided a similar cockpit feel to the FOX 40 it replaced.
During installation, we noticed that Manitou was thorough in torque spec guidance and even includes a spacer in the lower crown to optimize clamp force. This is important because it ensures the clamping force around the legs isn't too tight, restricting the movement of the fork. Smart.
Manitou states the Dorado has a 20-hour break in period. During this time we ran the damper settings more open with a higher air pressure. As the damping felt juicier, we settled into an air pressure of 70psi for a geared rider weight of 175-pounds, 8/20 clicks of rebound, 10/20 clicks on the TPC+ dial, and 12/16 clicks of high-speed compression. At those settings, the Dorado has a very nice bottomless feel. Spiking is a suspension symptom we never found with the Dorado.
We found that the TPC+ damping plays a huge role in the way the fork performs in various conditions. For jumping we would ramp up the TPC+ dial to 18/20 clicks and in wet conditions we’d back the TPC+ down to 8/20 clicks for added front wheel traction and small bump compliance. Regardless of the TPC+ setting, the fork is supple, plush, and asks to be ridden intensely.
Coming from the super rigid FOX 40, it took several weeks to develop the confidence it took to start smashing the front wheel into compressions on steep terrain. Why? Because there's a noticeable bit of flex to this fork. In contrast to the FOX 40, we noticed less fatigue on the upper body – primarily the shoulders – thanks to the force deflection that comes with an inverted fork. It is no coincidence motocross bikes utilize inverted forks. A degree of flex translates into force deflection. In the Dorado’s case, this small degree of flex translates into less force into rider hands, arms and joints with increased front wheel traction – the fork handles more of the work for you.
That said, the Dorado still gave incredible feedback on off-camber lines with rocky and rooted compressions. In this scenario the last thing you want is for your front wheel to deflect and throw you off line and the Dorado still excelled in this situation. We loved how you could aim your front wheel into the nastiest technical lines with precision.
Having heard a lot of complaints from heavier, World Cup pace riders about a reported “wallowing” feel, we're of the opinion that riders under 185-pounds will experience optimum benefit from the inverted design. We’re coming from a lighter point-of-view and attest to the benefit of the Dorado’s force deflection in our GoPro footage. We left a few whips out with zero high-sides. We were straightened out every time and loved this about the Dorado. If you do weigh more than 185-pounds and aren’t riding at World Cup pace, you won’t push the fork to the point of a “wallowing” feel and will also reap the benefits of minimal front tire deflection. Logan Binggeli rode a Dorado to 3rd place at Rampage in 2012, so we also know it can perform in the most dangerous discipline in mountain biking, too.
Things That Could Be Improved
One thing that could use some attention is the axle system.
Manitou’s HexLock axle requires attention to detail, a fair bit of effort when removing the front wheel, and even more attention when installing it. The axle is not self-extracting and you'll need tools to remove it, so we recommend keeping the axle well lubricated – white lithium grease worked well and it’s cheap at your local shop - to ease the task of extraction and installation. Whatever the solution is to maintain structural integrity with a self-extracting axle would be greatly appreciated.
If you run your front brake on the right-hand side, the stock front brake cable routing guide is perfect. If you run your front brake on the left-hand side, American style, the routing leaves a bit to be desired.
Long Term Durability
In general it's a solid package, but we did have one issue early on. After riding in varied conditions, some of which were muddy, at about the 25-hour mark of ride time we ended up blowing the damper side dust seal. We continued to ride the fork for another 35-hours as oil continued to leak. Manitou was quick to respond and sent out a replacement damper leg that has performed flawlessly in 30-hours of ride time.
Could this have been a fluke? It's certainly possible. We weren’t able to cause any terminal damage to the Dorado and Manitou backs their products with an excellent service package, so keep that in mind as well.
After 90-hours of ride time we were able to get the rear brake cable to wear on the anodizing of the lower crown, but it was nothing to cry about. A little tape, vinyl or Velcro solves this issue.
Finally, one quick tip that could save you a headache - be sure to snug the small bolts on the fork guards often, or consider adding Loc-Tite to the threads for a set and forget solution.
What’s The Bottom Line?
We're impressed with the wide range of adjustments in damping, rebound control, and overall performance of the Dorado Expert. At $1200 and 6.82-pounds, the Dorado Expert has a very high price point to performance ratio for a downhill fork. With its proven TPC+ damping, the Dorado is supple through chatter, plush yet supportive through high-speed compressions, and offers Velcro-like traction that certainly stands out in technical off-camber situations. Complete with a limited warranty, impressive service package, and a detailed owner's manual, it's certainly a fork to consider, especially if you weigh less than 185-pounds.
Manitou plans on attending the 2013 Sea Otter Classic and several ProGRT events for you national racers looking for tech support. Check them out at the races or www.manitoumtb.com.
I have had my expert for 2 months now and love how it performs. However my seal has started leaking on the cartridge side also. I did not ride the week before last so the bike had sat for 13 days. I wiped it stanchion clean before the ride and it did not leak during the ride. I checked it this morning and still no leak. I'm going to contact Manitou and see whats up.
I also have a friend that has a Dorado Pro. He bought a second bike that had a 2011 Fox 40 on it. While he was riding the newer bike with the 40 the older bike with the Dorado Pro sat for a month and the same type of leak occurred. He ended up swapping the Dorado Pro to the newer bike and selling the older bike with the 40. He likes how the Pro performed over the 40. He has just been deal with the leaking seal on the Pro. Like mine and Orvan's it only leaks when it sits and not while riding.
It was a known problem from a bad batch of the most recent ones. They've since fixed it. There was like a 2-3 week period earlier this month where they had to go through and check a lot of them and weren't shipping any to dealers. They'll sort you out I'm sure.
I contacted Manitou today and they are sending me a new set of seals. They offered to do an RA and have the fork service but the riding weather in the San Diego area is too good right now to be without a fork. I can do the seals myself and not miss any ride time.
Huh, I wasn't aware there was ever bad riding weather in San Diego.
CA doesnt always have peachy keen weather ya know
In the summer eastern San Diego can reach triple digits. If you're willing to ride early before 10am you can beat the heat.
Are they shipping experts out? I'm still waiting for mine, 4 weeks later
I love(d) my Dorado Expert 2015. I bought every upgrade kit, and even learned how to service them properly, despite the contradictory service manual. I am now finally done with the bike and on my second day of the season in 2017! Then this happens today: The silver coloured brake adapter breaks in two for the second time on this fork, and my new and expensive bling-bling Hope Tech 3 V4 caliper becomes scratched and leaks oil from the hose, and the left stanchion is scratched and leaks oil, and the new Hope V4 Vented Rotor is dented beyond repair. I bought everything new from CRC recently. It will be interesting to see what they have to say.
It seems to me like Manitou knows very well how they failed with this silver coloured brake adapter, and is now selling version more like Fox, which is a solid casted chunk, instead of adapters. I don't get why they even bothered with adapters, because there was only one size of adapter (203mm) to choose from anyway. Sadly this one adapter has broken twice on me and I will not install another one. I will just change the whole stanchion to the more solid black version. So, be aware! Change your left stanchion to the black brake adapter on both the Dorado 2015 and 2016, expert and pro. You will wish you did.
It seems to me like Manitou knows very well how they failed with this silver coloured brake adapter, and is now selling version more like Fox, which is a solid casted chunk, instead of adapters. I don't get why they even bothered with adapters, because there was only one size of adapter (203mm) to choose from anyway. Sadly this one adapter has broken twice on me and I will not install another one. I will just change the whole stanchion to the more solid black version. So, be aware! Change your left stanchion to the black brake adapter on both the Dorado 2015 and 2016, expert and pro. You will wish you did.
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And that's exactly why nobody is talking about Manitou Dorado Expert.
Sucks, good luck!
Which is this new black version that changes the silver adapter?
I have zero issues with my adapter and consider it a good design, but i'm no pro-downhiller so am not as fast as i wish (i probably don't put it at a lot of stress).
I have zero issues with my adapter and consider it a good design, but i'm no pro-downhiller so am not as fast as i wish (i probably don't put it at a lot of stress).