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Why should Iraq be one country??

L

luelling

Guest
I have to post this in lou of things I've been reading lately. Why in the hell should we have a "united" Iraq if they don't want it? The kurds want part of Southern Turkey, Western Syria and Northern Iraq and I don't blame them...they should have their own country. But outside of that why don't we sit down the Shia and Sunni leaders and hammer out a comprimise on borders and inidividual countries? I know Iraq has been a nation since WWII but who cares? This unity thing is falling apart and I think a better and more peaceful approach would be to break the country up.

I've been reading blogs like this, http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/001126.html and they start to change your mind about things. Northern Iraq sounds like it could become a nice place to visit. It seems like the people involved with the government don't want a democracy, they want an islamic state and thats fine....but the Kurds sure as hell don't want that. They are trying to learn the ropes of democracy.

Let all three groups have what they want...in their own little area. Maybe Iraq could be like the U.S. with some elected officials nationaly but with a focus on local "states" or regions with large government there (the way our government was intended to run). Democracy has traditionally failed through history and yet we continue to push it...I think we should take an approach of listening to what the people want and let them build a government around their ideals. If they elect someone, in their free democracy, that is from Hamas or Hezbollah do you think we would let that fly? Hell no...its not a true democracy anyway.
 
LordOpie

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
I agree, split up Iraq.

Provide resources for those civilians who don't want to live in one part of the new Iraqis to move them and resettle them in the part they want to live in.
 
L

luelling

Guest
valve bouncer said:
Turkey will never let the Kurds become independent. End of story.
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I'm aware of that, but Turkey needs to face the facts that they can't win. The Northern Alliance in Iraq is feeding money and arms to the Southern Turkey rebels. They face the same problem we do....a guarilla fight....and its pretty rare you can win that when the population is against you.
 
valve bouncer

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
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Japan
luelling said:
I'm aware of that, but Turkey needs to face the facts that they can't win. The Northern Alliance in Iraq is feeding money and arms to the Southern Turkey rebels. They face the same problem we do....a guarilla fight....and its pretty rare you can win that when the population is against you.
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A couple of points. Turkey has been fighting the Kurds for at least a couple of decades in a war of varying intensity. Turkey is also a member of NATO so a wider war involving the Turks would put the US and its allies in a very difficult position. Being that the Turks are a key Muslim ally there's no way the US would risk alienating them over this.
 
B

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,160
2
california
Winston Churchill is the reason Iraq exists as a state today. He was an idiot. The end.

Always love it when imperialists pack up and leave and squish together three nations of peoples into one state...
 
valve bouncer

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
blue said:
Winston Churchill is the reason Iraq exists as a state today. He was an idiot. The end.

Always love it when imperialists pack up and leave and squish together three nations of peoples into one state...
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Or when one nations people are spread over 3 states as in the case of the Kurds.
 
Changleen

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
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Yeah, it does seem logical to break the place up into ethnic regions. The Kurds would be the sticking point I guess. Maybe that's why Saddam tried to get rid of 'em. :D
 
L

luelling

Guest
valve bouncer said:
A couple of points. Turkey has been fighting the Kurds for at least a couple of decades in a war of varying intensity. Turkey is also a member of NATO so a wider war involving the Turks would put the US and its allies in a very difficult position. Being that the Turks are a key Muslim ally there's no way the US would risk alienating them over this.
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Turkey is not a member of the EU yet though and they striving hard to get there. Turkey also denied allowing us to use their land prior to the launch of the iraqi war. Turkey is not the friend you think they are and our government knows that. They lost favor when they refused to allow us to launch air missions off their air bases in southern Turkey. Turkey means **** now to us and I would be willing to bet our government would back the northern alliance over turkey becuase they have been a better alliance with us. Americans are encouraged and welcomed in the northern Kurdistan controlled Iraq. As far as Turkey being a muslim allie I don't think that concerns us.

We have other Muslim allies that do a lot for us compared to them and are more developed (Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, etc..). The last time Turkey had power was at the end of Ottaman Empire during WWI since then the entire middle east has struggled for an identity (they were united under that empire). We are still feeling the ripple effects of that collapse damn near a hundred years later
 
Silver

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
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luelling said:
We have other Muslim allies that do a lot for us compared to them and are more developed (Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, etc..).
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Your forgot Pakistan.

One other thing though: Every Muslim "ally" we have is utterly crazy. Turkey is the one exception to that, and the one we probably need to cultivate.

edit: "Probably need to calculate"...whoops.
 
valve bouncer

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
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Japan
luelling said:
Turkey is not a member of the EU yet though and they striving hard to get there. Turkey also denied allowing us to use their land prior to the launch of the iraqi war. Turkey is not the friend you think they are and our government knows that. They lost favor when they refused to allow us to launch air missions off their air bases in southern Turkey. Turkey means **** now to us and I would be willing to bet our government would back the northern alliance over turkey becuase they have been a better alliance with us. Americans are encouraged and welcomed in the northern Kurdistan controlled Iraq. As far as Turkey being a muslim allie I don't think that concerns us.

We have other Muslim allies that do a lot for us compared to them and are more developed (Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, etc..). The last time Turkey had power was at the end of Ottaman Empire during WWI since then the entire middle east has struggled for an identity (they were united under that empire). We are still feeling the ripple effects of that collapse damn near a hundred years later
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Turkey is a member of NATO...end of story. Won't happen.
 
Changleen

Changleen

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Jan 9, 2004
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Plus Turkey is good buddies with most of Europe (the Governments at least) so the US attacking it, or helping attack it is basically off the agenda.
 
L

luelling

Guest
Changleen said:
Plus Turkey is good buddies with most of Europe (the Governments at least) so the US attacking it, or helping attack it is basically off the agenda.
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Not even rometely the point. Attacking the US was the not the talk with relation to Turkey. Pakistan is a BETTER ally than Turkey and I think anyone that read any of the reports coming from that area can come to that conclusion. My point was the last time Turkey had any power was the Ottoman Empire (and that has been gone for almost a century) and they hold tight and try to run things in that area like they have some power and balls. My big point was that the US would probably support the Northern Alliance if Iraq was broken apart and they chose to attack to unite all of the Kurds (which in my opinion they have a right to do)
 
Silver

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
luelling said:
Not even rometely the point. Attacking the US was the not the talk with relation to Turkey. Pakistan is a BETTER ally than Turkey and I think anyone that read any of the reports coming from that area can come to that conclusion.
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You are aware that Pakistan could turn into a nuclear armed fundamentalist state at pretty much any moment, right?
 
L

luelling

Guest
Silver said:
You are aware that Pakistan could turn into a nuclear armed fundamentalist state at pretty much any moment, right?
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Pakistan has nukes bro...read the news
 
L

luelling

Guest
valve bouncer said:
Just think for a moment what the "T" in NATO stands for.
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TRADE is what the T stands for...did you screw up and think it stood for Turkey? poor soul
 
B

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,160
2
california
luelling said:
Pakistan has nukes bro...read the news
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He's talking about how insanely unstable Pakistan is, and that it's currently ruled by a military dictator.

Please learn more about countries before lavishing praise upon them...

luelling said:
TRADE is what the T stands for...did you screw up and think it stood for Turkey? poor soul
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What?
 
Transcend

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
luelling said:
TRADE is what the T stands for...did you screw up and think it stood for Turkey? poor soul
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Pretty sure it is YOU who screwed up, pal. It stands for TREATY.

North Atlantic Treaty Organisation :rolleyes:

Please atleast be slightly aware of what the hell you are talking about before you try and calls omeone out.
 
fluff

fluff

Monkey Turbo
Sep 8, 2001
5,673
2
Feeling the lag
valve bouncer said:
I think we may have reached a new low on the PAWNed forum.:rolleyes:
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It's strange how over time N8 has become one of the more intellectual members of this forum. I'm not sure how much lower things can get.

But it'll be fun watching.
 
valve bouncer

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
fluff said:
It's strange how over time N8 has become one of the more intellectual members of this forum. I'm not sure how much lower things can get.

But it'll be fun watching.
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I actually sat there for about 5 minutes after reading what he wrote wondering whether he was taking the piss or was a complete and utter moron. Seems the latter.
It's a shame though as it's actually a semi-interesting subject. Oh well back to sniping at the Kiwis and the Poms.;)
 
ALEXIS_DH

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,148
796
Lima, Peru, Peru
fluff said:
It's strange how over time N8 has become one of the more intellectual members of this forum. I'm not sure how much lower things can get.

But it'll be fun watching.
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thanks you internet, for the bounties which we are about feast upon.

not that i consider myself an illuminati of this forum, or exempt from mistake... i´m just saying.
 
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