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Why SS doesn't need "saving"

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
So I've been thinking about this quite a bit lately, but Joker's new sig file got me mad enough to actually write something about it.

The facts that no one is disputing is that SS is currently scheduled to run a surplus in 2011, will switch over to running at a deficit by 2014, and be funded fully through 2037 at which point it will only be able to pay out 75% of benefits. Nobody is disputing those numbers...

So why all the posturing now? I mean, if my retired parents were to come to me for financial advice, and tell me that they have enough money to pay for their expenses for the next 27 years, at which point they will only be able to pay for 75% of their expenses, I'd say FVCKING GREAT!! Well, not so simple the "reformers" claim, since the US Gov't has raided the SS fund every year to patch holes in the deficit, and when it comes time to pay the US Gov't isn't going to be able to without raising federal income taxes. The "reformers" want to change SS so that it keeps bringing in more money than it pays out.

Ok, lets think about that for a second: Every man, woman and child working in this country pays FICA taxes on 100% of their income. Something like 12.5% goes to SS, and the remainder goes to Medicare and Medicaid (half is paid by you, half is paid by your employer). That's HUGELY regressive. Someone making $100k/year is paying the same tax rate as someone making $10k/year. For our progressive income tax system, the former is paying 25% in federal income taxes, and the latter is paying 0%. For someone making $1 million / year, the effective tax rate is far less, only 1.5% since they're paying the same $15,000 as the person making $100k, but they're making 10x as much money.

In effect the federal government wants to lower it's deficit by raising more money through it's SS (regressive) taxes so it doesn't have to raise federal income (progressive) taxes. Or cut spending (or a combination of the two). It's the *only* reason that "reformers" are clamoring now, as opposed to 27 years from now. They absolutely don't want to pay back that $2.4 trillion dollars that they've borrowed from the American people. They've used that money every single year for the past 75 to do everything from fund wars, infrastructure or tax cuts. The Clinton-surplus was only achieved through raiding the SS piggy bank and as a result, Bush was able to go to the American people and claim to "give people back their money". A massive, massive tax cut to the progressive tax system paid for by the regressive Social Security Trust Fund.

And now that it's time for the US Gov't to start paying back those loans? Suddenly ever conservative starts running around trying to reform SS, because raising the retirement age is easier than actually living responsibly, ie WITHOUT the SS subsidy each year.

:rant:
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
Ok, lets think about that for a second: Every man, woman and child working in this country pays FICA taxes on 100% of their income. Something like 12.5% goes to SS, and the remainder goes to Medicare and Medicaid (half is paid by you, half is paid by your employer). That's HUGELY regressive. Someone making $100k/year is paying the same tax rate as someone making $10k/year. For our progressive income tax system, the former is paying 25% in federal income taxes, and the latter is paying 0%. For someone making $1 million / year, the effective tax rate is far less, only 1.5% since they're paying the same $15,000 as the person making $100k, but they're making 10x as much money.
Actually, it's worse than that.

You pay no SS component of FICA on income over 106K. So someone making one million a year in wages pays a much lower rate than someone making 10K a year.

Remember the huge Galtian rant the Joker went on a couple of weeks ago when he didn't realize that this cap was in place? Fun times.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
Yeah, but it's contradicted by the opening paragraph. It's a bit of a confusing writeup, which could have been vastly simplified by mentioning that there is a cap on the SS tax component.

Edit: Basically, people need to stop lumping together SS and Medicare components of FICA. Since one of them phases out, it's very easy to play all sorts of sophist tricks if you keep them together.
 
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BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
Now all you guys have to do is come up with a way to summarize all of that into an easily digestible, two or three word talking point (like "ground zero mosque" or "freedom ain't free") that any teabagger can understand and mindlessly repeat and we'll be onto something.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
Now all you guys have to do is come up with a way to summarize all of that into an easily digestible, two or three word talking point (like "ground zero mosque" or "freedom ain't free") that any teabagger can understand and mindlessly repeat and we'll be onto something.
Easy:

Pick the richest rapper out there, and point out that even though he makes 50 million a year, he only pays ~6k toward SS because of the cap.

Solidarity with the rich will disappear once they realize that a black person is benefiting.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
40,444
16,972
Riding the baggage carousel.
Easy:

Pick the richest rapper out there, and point out that even though he makes 50 million a year, he only pays ~6k toward SS because of the cap.

Solidarity with the rich will disappear once they realize that a black person is benefiting.
I'd have to look for it, but I recall reading something way back in the day when Jordan was still playing about how, if you broke down what he made a year into a per hour rate, he hit the cap something like 15 seconds into the new year.
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
How do I figure into this?
Easy, you're the one person on this board who's being subsidized by the rest of us. SS tax is a regressive tax, and it's being used to subsidize income tax (progressive tax) payers. If the US government wasn't stealing borrowing from SS each year, either income taxes would have to be higher, spending would have to be less, or our debt (ultimately paid for by income taxes) would be higher.
 

rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,342
924
East Bay, Cali
Easy, you're the one person on this board who's being subsidized by the rest of us. SS tax is a regressive tax, and it's being used to subsidize income tax (progressive tax) payers. If the US government wasn't stealing borrowing from SS each year, either income taxes would have to be higher, spending would have to be less, or our debt (ultimately paid for by income taxes) would be higher.
Joker you bast@rd, gimme my money back!