the interviews aren't working though... just the race footage (which is fine, but I also like to know what the athletes think of the course etc). Still, seeing the race footage was great.
thanks Freecaster!
thanks Freecaster!
World Cup #1 - South Africa
- Thread starter Transcend
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I dunno man. Duncan is still pretty young. He had the best result of his career. I don't know about the other "kids" but I don't think it's a stretch to assume he trains harder than most of them...All those listed are kids basically....takes sometime to build up the HorsePower Stik.
Peat, Minnaar, Hannah, Graves.....these guys got tons of mileage in their legs. If they work at it the young'ns will get there...
30 hours and 4 flight changes? Never realized how much I was going to miss the direct non-stop NYC to Hong Kong flight by Cathay...
All your Freecaster are belong to us...
first they take are bass and now freecaster. Bastards
My take is that obviously the bigger more powerful riders did well, whereas those riders that perhaps have lesser mass to them, especially in their legs, did less well. For instance, Steve Smith got 20th, which is pretty good, but alot of that is perhaps attributed to the fact that Steve is a bit thicker, or more mass, especially in his legs than his fellow young riders.
Initially i was just countering Stik's remark that some of the younger riders didn't train. Even if some of the young'ns trained it doesn't mean they have the horsepower of a Peat, Hannah or Graves......it could take years of hard training to match the top guys in power. Of course there are always exceptions to the rule: some people have excellent DNA, some of the riders may have training super hard through their teen years or Riffle not sure what category he fits into....i guess he has several years of hard training. But if it's a young racer new to WC level racing and they are new to top level training let's not be so quick to throw them under the bus.....
But what Stik was really alluding to, is the fact that some of young racers who are getting paid haven't really trained hard at all.....those guys might need a wake up call....
But no matter, Good result for Riffle though....
Anyone know how the splits were taken during the race.......?....were the timing chips used.....?....
There was one split just as you entered the woods below the table top. Not sure where the second one was. The chips were indeed used for this, and it is one of the major advantages of having them on board.
Did everyone have chips.....?........thought i read somewhere only the top guys would use them....
Top 80. They were only used for finals.
I just got done watching the rest of the footage since Freecaster "found" the rest of their files. Freecaster is so awesome I don't know where to begin.
I especially liked the "Rider Profiles". They are great. Smith: "I'm a business man"!!! How classic was that!!! I hope to see more rider profiles of the up and comers, and not just the guys, the girls too.
Keep up the good work Freecaster, looking forward to La Bresse!
I especially liked the "Rider Profiles". They are great. Smith: "I'm a business man"!!! How classic was that!!! I hope to see more rider profiles of the up and comers, and not just the guys, the girls too.
Keep up the good work Freecaster, looking forward to La Bresse!
FWIW......wrote a little program to calc split times (in seconds)...hopefully will be able to do this for all the races if the format stays the same...
Some interesting stuff if you look closely...split 1 looks fishy though..
The last number is Final placing...
Top 10 speeds
63.847 MINNAAR Greg 1
62.068 BLENKINSOP Samuel 28
61.822 PEAT Steve 3
61.822 POLC Filip 37
61.578 GRACIA Cédric 24
61.498 BENNETT Kieran 80
61.336 PAYET Florent 21
61.336 HILL Samuel 4
61.096 GUARDIA PASCUAL 18
61.096 HART Danny 58
Top 10 to split 1
1:41.48 MINNAAR Greg 1
1:42.38 HANNAH Michael 2
1:42.82 PEAT Steve 3
1:42.98 HILL Samuel 4
1:44.27 NEETHLING Andrew 14
1:44.37 ATHERTON Gee 5
1:44.83 LEOV Justin 7
1:44.90 RIFFLE Duncan 12
1:44.91 RENNIE Nathan 11
1:44.98 CAMELLINI Julien 10
Top 10 to split 2- split 1
85.42 MINNAAR Greg 1
86.64 HANNAH Michael 2
88.36 COLE Cameron 6
88.82 ATHERTON Gee 5
89.13 PEAT Steve 3
89.56 HILL Samuel 4
89.76 GRAVES Jared 8
90.01 BEAUMONT Marc 9
90.07 ATHERTON Dan 13
90.39 LEOV Justin 7
Top 10 to Final_time- split 2
36.54 MINNAAR Greg 1
36.67 HANNAH Michael 2
37.3 PEAT Steve 3
37.56 POLC Filip 37
37.64 HILL Samuel 4
38.15 GUARDIA PASCUAL 18
38.26 COLE Cameron 6
38.36 CANALS FLIX 25
38.44 GRAVES Jared 8
38.5 OULEGO MORENO 15
Some interesting stuff if you look closely...split 1 looks fishy though..
The last number is Final placing...
Top 10 speeds
63.847 MINNAAR Greg 1
62.068 BLENKINSOP Samuel 28
61.822 PEAT Steve 3
61.822 POLC Filip 37
61.578 GRACIA Cédric 24
61.498 BENNETT Kieran 80
61.336 PAYET Florent 21
61.336 HILL Samuel 4
61.096 GUARDIA PASCUAL 18
61.096 HART Danny 58
Top 10 to split 1
1:41.48 MINNAAR Greg 1
1:42.38 HANNAH Michael 2
1:42.82 PEAT Steve 3
1:42.98 HILL Samuel 4
1:44.27 NEETHLING Andrew 14
1:44.37 ATHERTON Gee 5
1:44.83 LEOV Justin 7
1:44.90 RIFFLE Duncan 12
1:44.91 RENNIE Nathan 11
1:44.98 CAMELLINI Julien 10
Top 10 to split 2- split 1
85.42 MINNAAR Greg 1
86.64 HANNAH Michael 2
88.36 COLE Cameron 6
88.82 ATHERTON Gee 5
89.13 PEAT Steve 3
89.56 HILL Samuel 4
89.76 GRAVES Jared 8
90.01 BEAUMONT Marc 9
90.07 ATHERTON Dan 13
90.39 LEOV Justin 7
Top 10 to Final_time- split 2
36.54 MINNAAR Greg 1
36.67 HANNAH Michael 2
37.3 PEAT Steve 3
37.56 POLC Filip 37
37.64 HILL Samuel 4
38.15 GUARDIA PASCUAL 18
38.26 COLE Cameron 6
38.36 CANALS FLIX 25
38.44 GRAVES Jared 8
38.5 OULEGO MORENO 15
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Or that the savy racers knew where to push it and played the cards right so they did better...
Yeah they knew to push it on the flatter easier section. It's a skill but I won't support a track where you can gain the most on the flatter, more pedally sections.
I'm not bitchin and not talking about the smart part as this is obvious but about the strong part. There are already endurance races with less techy trails and more pedaling but they are not called WC DH. I know my opinion won't change the fact that the locations are not chosen because of the track but for me this kinda tracks won't progress the sport.
I am sorry I think you are totally wrong. It is a race, the best racers there knew where to push it, and where they didn't have to, they had the skill to get through the tech section without exerting themselves, and conserve their energy for the parts they needed to.
that's what that is man...!
You've gotta go back to the drawing board...you've got "TOP SPEEDS" listed under your top 10 to first split times...Split 1 times are clearly listed under "Split 1" column...Minnaar had the fastest 1st split time at 1:41:48
Eventhough your "logic" is clear, i'm with norbar on this. Would you still have the same opinion if they put a piece of asphalt/road in the race for that lenght? Race = race but roadcycling =/= DH, it's a damn WC. I guess it's do-able for 1 track but there definately shouldn't be more coming like this.
Yes it is a race but it's a downhill race. If someone used an mx bike and was waster would you say he knew how to win and it's ok? I may be overstating but DH tracks should include certain features that separate them from other biking disciplines. I'm not bashing the results as they are final but the track itself. Do you really think that a WC track is a place where they only differance between an avreage pro and a world cup champion is leg power? If yea than we should get some road sprinters on dh bikes and all of our current riders will be smoked.
I will admit it is nice to see crazy steep and technical flat out stuff on world cup circuits, but a bit of variety never hurt anything! It was still a downhill race (even though the hill wasn't that steep), and I found it quite entertaining, I was on the edge of my seat when the top 10 started coming down (the small hill) 
I agree variety is needed but we can make power tracks witch still have more dh features than this and canberra (MSA, Fort William for example). This is still probably a very nice and fun track(riden similar and loved them) and I'm not really saying it's not a DH track. It's simply not on par with the rest of the WC tracks and the only complaint I have about it is that pedaling was to much of a determinant in winning it.I will admit it is nice to see crazy steep and technical flat out stuff on world cup circuits, but a bit of variety never hurt anything! It was still a downhill race (even though the hill wasn't that steep), and I found it quite entertaining, I was on the edge of my seat when the top 10 started coming down (the small hill)
missed that first column was speed......i was working from a text file without column headings....will fix it.....
Honestly, if you don't think pedaling and/or absolute fitness is one of, if not the primary determinant of victory in every single race, you are nuts. Riding a bike fast down a hill, even without a chain, FFS, engenders super high levels of oxygen consumption. DH is now, always has been, and always will be a sport primarily about aerobic fitness. The more capacity an athlete has, the better their bike handling abilities are. Direct correlation... Pedaling a flat out non-technical section is just as difficult, tactical and challenging aspect of racing as 20 degree pitch slimy roots. Both are about rhythm, pacing, and staying inside one's limits.
Given two riders of equal "skill", the fitter rider will always win. More fitness= better bike handling abilities. Even if a rider can ride 60 seconds of track markedly faster than any one else on earth if they are not supremely fit they are not going to be able to translate that speed over 4 minutes. That is completely devoid of any talk of pedals even... Like it or not, DH has plenty in common with the traditional cycling disciplines, and even elite MX racers, which a vocal, misguided, possibly retarded minority within DH are trying to ape, spend more time on road bikes and xc bikes than bikes with motors.
Adding explicit "fitness" sections to DH races is no different than adding huge jumps or tight singletrack... fundamentally they test the same things.
PMB, Canbera, etc are not, clearly not, XC races. This is not 1995. We aren't going to see Gunn Rita Dahle or Adam Craig showing up on the podium at these events the day after their XC races.
Given two riders of equal "skill", the fitter rider will always win. More fitness= better bike handling abilities. Even if a rider can ride 60 seconds of track markedly faster than any one else on earth if they are not supremely fit they are not going to be able to translate that speed over 4 minutes. That is completely devoid of any talk of pedals even... Like it or not, DH has plenty in common with the traditional cycling disciplines, and even elite MX racers, which a vocal, misguided, possibly retarded minority within DH are trying to ape, spend more time on road bikes and xc bikes than bikes with motors.
Adding explicit "fitness" sections to DH races is no different than adding huge jumps or tight singletrack... fundamentally they test the same things.
PMB, Canbera, etc are not, clearly not, XC races. This is not 1995. We aren't going to see Gunn Rita Dahle or Adam Craig showing up on the podium at these events the day after their XC races.
100 % agree with mickey
Where did I state that fitness is not part of dh racing. I agree with the most of your post about the fitness in dh racing and I know the track is not a XC track but a DH track. The issue I have with this track and canberra is they put too much pressure into fitness. You have to be fit in dh racing but I don't think riders should be separated mostly by it and less by their actualy bike skill. I'd simply prefer a WC track which would require fitness to use your technique and skills not a track where most of it is wasted on pedaling. DH racing is a sport requireng good body condition but for a specific reason and not just for the sake of it. I'm not really an MX wannabe but I am quite certain those guys don't determine who's the best by their overall body fitness. They just need it to ride and it is the same with most of the sports that rely on SKILL (and downhill is one of them) not on fatigue.
BTW. Where I've suggested that the tracks should prefer guys that can be the fastest over 40s? A technical track is also very demanding physicaly and you need to be in your best shape for this 3-4mins but except for the shape you also need to have better bike control than other bikers.
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Norbar.
From a supply-side purely physiological standpoint, fitness IS skill. Applying technique takes energy, and the faster a rider is, from a technique standpoint, the greater the energy demands they have. The same aerobic and anaerobic pathways and metabolism power Blenkinshops loose cannon radder than rad dumped out steeze as Mik Hannah's straight line pedaling power. Riders who can't make lots of power on flat ground are missing a SKILL that they can easily develop. If they are competing at the top level of the sport, they already have developed the physiological capacities to pedal their asses off, so they might as well apply them.
A diverse world cup track that challenges all the fundamental abilities and skills is a good thing, IMO.
From a supply-side purely physiological standpoint, fitness IS skill. Applying technique takes energy, and the faster a rider is, from a technique standpoint, the greater the energy demands they have. The same aerobic and anaerobic pathways and metabolism power Blenkinshops loose cannon radder than rad dumped out steeze as Mik Hannah's straight line pedaling power. Riders who can't make lots of power on flat ground are missing a SKILL that they can easily develop. If they are competing at the top level of the sport, they already have developed the physiological capacities to pedal their asses off, so they might as well apply them.
A diverse world cup track that challenges all the fundamental abilities and skills is a good thing, IMO.
I agree that we need a diverse world cup (hell I even liked Willingen) and that fitness is skill. I simply prefer the pedaly power tracks were closer to Fort William or MSA than this or Canberra but it's just my view of sport. Just wanted to clear things out but I think we moreless agree now.
As an ex-sponsored ski racer and current coach, my mentality is this: Racing is fun. Training runs are fun. Gym time and conditioning is work. In my mind, I was paid to work, not to have fun, and work yeilds results. If you are getting paid, you better be working.
It was one race and the every track suites different aspects of riding. The overall is determined by the accumulation of results and the best overall rider will hold that title.
It was one race and the every track suites different aspects of riding. The overall is determined by the accumulation of results and the best overall rider will hold that title.
And If I'm not getting paid and gim is fun for me?
I don't want to be a dick, but how many WC tracks have you raced on?
How can you justify this track was not as good as MSA or fort william?
I have eyes? Most of the WC tracks ppl see in movies/live feeds/helmetcams but you can see a large part of the track. I know it doesn't give me as clear view as if I'd ride them all (I've only ridden Maribor and know 2 pro guys who raced at WC there and said that even tough it's not a pedaly track it was extremely phisicaly demanding and old Euro Champs or WC track at Spindleruv Mlyn so I have little comparison) but still I can connect the bits and pieces of info from riders, reports and feeds to have at least an overall opinion about the track.
I didnt see any mention of it But did Palmer race?
Nope, Rob from Santa Cruz was talking during his interview about how he'd love to get Palmer out to a WC this season, but wasn't sure if they'd be able to swing it, as he is really focused on Boarder X with the Olympics coming up.
I heard palmer talking about maybe racing as part of his training for the olympics.
But I couldnt imagine using something so potentially dangerous as your training routine.
But I couldnt imagine using something so potentially dangerous as your training routine.
If you really believe that the top motocross racers aren't fit - and by that I don't just mean 'in shape' but 'world-class athlete physical condition' - they you are either insane, or uninformed, or both.