UCI are going the wrong way I fear. They are allowing pits next year where a rider can change anything but the bike frame. There could be up to 3 pits on a given course. Plus riders will be able to swap parts with team mates on the course. Here come the domestiques with sacraficial parts carrying duties. What's next full fleets of bikes like cross for a change every lap? Motorcycles with spares following riders around? maybe we'll need all double track to fit the motor bikes and smoother courses to make it purely strength. Yeah lets remove skill from the equation all together. Riders on rollers with a clock like device so we can tell who's winning. What a lod of crap. UCI = unrealistic cretinous idiots.
XC racing is changing
- Thread starter oldfart
- Start date
IMO there should be no assistance in XC racing including feedzones. Just allow camelbacks like 99% of the riders out there use. If a rider does not want to lose because of a flat they can run heavy duty tubes and sealant.
But it does not matter to me. The series I like to race are all single lap out in the middle of freakin' nowhere races. DNF'ing is not much of an option because once you get out there, there is only one way back.
But it does not matter to me. The series I like to race are all single lap out in the middle of freakin' nowhere races. DNF'ing is not much of an option because once you get out there, there is only one way back.
don't agree with you on the first part at all. feedzones are necessary, even if you have a camelback. what would happen if say you crash and puncture the camelback, now you have no water at all. and b/c feedzones are done away with you aren't going to be able to get any either.......Westy said:
maybe multiple pits is going a bit far, but getting a spare tube or bomb from a team mate should have been allowed ages ago.
but then again maybe the pro's should be like all of us, I race with camelback, 2 tubes, chaintool and pump.
but then again maybe the pro's should be like all of us, I race with camelback, 2 tubes, chaintool and pump.
What if you crash and break your neck? Part of racing is showing up with equipment that will last a race and riding within limits as not to damage it. Racing should not be about showing up with the most expensive lightest bike and the strongest legs. Planning and skill come into it. This also gives an advantage to someone with a team.indieboy said:
Westy said:
someone a little pissy today? i mean c'mon bro having the strongest legs in a mtn bike race 9 times out of 10 means you are going to win that day. there is a decent amount of stragety in it, but it's not like a road race where there are easily 100 other guys who have just as much power as you do and you have to plan and put pieces to a puzzle very quickly.
the only thing i reallllllllllllly really don't agree with is this is now comes bikes that are going to be somewhat disposable. frames that are engineered to last maybe a race. i don't agree with that. don't have a problem with a wheel change b/c of a flat or help with a broken chain, minor things, but the more major things are a bit screwy
It's PMS, didn't you read the other thread?indieboy said:
Really I just don't like the idea of changing the rules to give an advantage to the rider who is better funded. There is not a lot of $$ in the sport these days and spreading the gap between the few real pros and the independent guys is wrong.
i think the rule is being done more or less for the european pro field. there seems to be a decent amount of funding over there. even for the smaller pros. here, that's not the case. it's probably the fact that here in america cycling is viewed as a joke......Westy said:
Link http://www.velonews.com/race/mtn/articles/6920.0.html
I'm not talking cyclocross Im referring to Cross Country mountainbike.
I've been riding and racing since 1983. Racing came out of epic rides which is all we did at first until races were organized. Back then we all thought the epic one big lap race was best. Climb the mountain then descend it. Of course it was easier to come up with a shorter course which in some ways is better as you can run shorter events for the lower categories. But the essence of the sport is the self sufficient big ride.
The comment in the article about team mates helping or having handed up tools is hypocritical. Its against the rules so go catch the cheaters. UCI are waging a war on the dopers. They don't say we know its already happening and riders are getting away with doping now so let's just allow it. Not the same as doping affects health, but that argument is weak.
If I were running it I would simply eliminate feed zones all together. For really long courses there could be neutral refill zones where a rider could take on more water. No outside assistance but perhaps allow other riders to help each other as one would do on a big ride. I'd also allow any bike to be used but the course rules would dictate a certain amount of singletrack, would allow only very minimal pavement, and the courses would be such that only true xc bikes would win. Too rough for cross, too hilly for downhill oh and no stunts and dangerous man made junk either.
The problem with allowing outside assistance is it opens the door to more. Full bike changes could be coming. Next maybe we'll see all double wide so the strong rider who can't downhill worth beans can pass when he catches up. Maybe remove all that is technical too because that's not fair for the rider who has no technical skills.
People always argue that they need these changes to make the sport easier to film and watch on TV. What change the sport for the benefit of TV stations? The only audience for XC racing at least in North America is XC riders. The bull riding nascar crowd will never watch it.
If the races get watered down by multiple feed zones, equipment pits etc, the sport will drift away from what the regular guys do and become less relevant. I think mountainbike racing is what I call a participation sport. Not one to watch on TV, not an entertainment sport like football. That's where the action and money is. Like 10k and marathon running events. Who watches that on TV? But the number of people who participate is quite large. 24 hour events draw good numbers of competitors as do some of the local "epic" races like www.testofmetal.com. That one is cut off at 800 participants. Cheakamus Challenge used to attract up to 1200 riders! I think that might be a better direction for off road. And I think the apparent popularity of the "new" marathon races is really good.
I'm not talking cyclocross Im referring to Cross Country mountainbike.
I've been riding and racing since 1983. Racing came out of epic rides which is all we did at first until races were organized. Back then we all thought the epic one big lap race was best. Climb the mountain then descend it. Of course it was easier to come up with a shorter course which in some ways is better as you can run shorter events for the lower categories. But the essence of the sport is the self sufficient big ride.
The comment in the article about team mates helping or having handed up tools is hypocritical. Its against the rules so go catch the cheaters. UCI are waging a war on the dopers. They don't say we know its already happening and riders are getting away with doping now so let's just allow it. Not the same as doping affects health, but that argument is weak.
If I were running it I would simply eliminate feed zones all together. For really long courses there could be neutral refill zones where a rider could take on more water. No outside assistance but perhaps allow other riders to help each other as one would do on a big ride. I'd also allow any bike to be used but the course rules would dictate a certain amount of singletrack, would allow only very minimal pavement, and the courses would be such that only true xc bikes would win. Too rough for cross, too hilly for downhill oh and no stunts and dangerous man made junk either.
The problem with allowing outside assistance is it opens the door to more. Full bike changes could be coming. Next maybe we'll see all double wide so the strong rider who can't downhill worth beans can pass when he catches up. Maybe remove all that is technical too because that's not fair for the rider who has no technical skills.
People always argue that they need these changes to make the sport easier to film and watch on TV. What change the sport for the benefit of TV stations? The only audience for XC racing at least in North America is XC riders. The bull riding nascar crowd will never watch it.
If the races get watered down by multiple feed zones, equipment pits etc, the sport will drift away from what the regular guys do and become less relevant. I think mountainbike racing is what I call a participation sport. Not one to watch on TV, not an entertainment sport like football. That's where the action and money is. Like 10k and marathon running events. Who watches that on TV? But the number of people who participate is quite large. 24 hour events draw good numbers of competitors as do some of the local "epic" races like www.testofmetal.com. That one is cut off at 800 participants. Cheakamus Challenge used to attract up to 1200 riders! I think that might be a better direction for off road. And I think the apparent popularity of the "new" marathon races is really good.
I have been eyeing Test of Metal for next year...just waiting for the registration to open.
I have mixed feelings on this new format for World Cup and Championship races. Yes, it sucks to have a race end because of a mechanical, but I still don't think support should be allowed. Is it nuetral support, or does it have to be from your team? What if I don't have a team, then I'm at an unfair disadvantage.
I have mixed feelings on this new format for World Cup and Championship races. Yes, it sucks to have a race end because of a mechanical, but I still don't think support should be allowed. Is it nuetral support, or does it have to be from your team? What if I don't have a team, then I'm at an unfair disadvantage.
It should be nuetral support, or no support.indieboy said:
for the pits, i will say that it should be nuetral or no support. however, with the feedzone that is just silly. feed is up to the individual rider, some are forunate to be on teams that can pay for ppl to do that job or the team manager does it himself. having someone who knows exactly what you need, when you need it in the feed is critical. all riders have some sort of pattern of drinks they take with/without gels. why should this be neutral? b/c there is a percentage of pros who show up to races without this? even those guys all travel to races and meet up with ppl over the series who are willing to do their feed. just gotta reach a hand out heidiHeidi said:
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You misunderstood me. I don't want nuetral feed. I want my own feed guy. But I think for the pits it should be nuet.indieboy said:for the pits, i will say that it should be nuetral or no support. however, with the feedzone that is just silly. feed is up to the individual rider, some are forunate to be on teams that can pay for ppl to do that job or the team manager does it himself. having someone who knows exactly what you need, when you need it in the feed is critical. all riders have some sort of pattern of drinks they take with/without gels. why should this be neutral? b/c there is a percentage of pros who show up to races without this? even those guys all travel to races and meet up with ppl over the series who are willing to do their feed. just gotta reach a hand out heidi
This has got to be one of the most relevant statements regarding XC racing ever.oldfart said:
Good job
outside assistance is what differenciates mtb racing from road racing, it makes it an individual sport more than anything else, as the guys before me have said, these changes are going to bring new elements like domestiques and bike changes that are really far away from the spirit of MOUNTAIN biking.
too bad but i guess how much damage can be done already to xc is limited with all the doping and lame tracks going on, i hardly care to follow that sport.
hopefully it wont push (dont have much hopes for that though) the equipment manufacturers into making disposeable parts for racing.
too bad but i guess how much damage can be done already to xc is limited with all the doping and lame tracks going on, i hardly care to follow that sport.
hopefully it wont push (dont have much hopes for that though) the equipment manufacturers into making disposeable parts for racing.
I have no problem with XC racers getting hand ups of tools, tires, and tubes, but being able to stop in the pits and change parts is way too far. And I don't like the idea of teammaters being able to swap wheelsets or whatever.
I doubt the assistance will have a huge impact on the sport. Anyone riding top 5 in a world cup who has a mechanical is pretty much F'ed even if they get assistance. And any guy capable riding top 5 isn't going to sacrifice his race by giving his wheelset to his leader or whatever.The only thing that will happen is unlucky riders won't have to DNF and get 0 UCI points, maybe they can still finish and get some UCI points. At worlds that is very important as there are a lot of UCI points available and the UCI points form worlds last for 2 years.
I doubt the assistance will have a huge impact on the sport. Anyone riding top 5 in a world cup who has a mechanical is pretty much F'ed even if they get assistance. And any guy capable riding top 5 isn't going to sacrifice his race by giving his wheelset to his leader or whatever.The only thing that will happen is unlucky riders won't have to DNF and get 0 UCI points, maybe they can still finish and get some UCI points. At worlds that is very important as there are a lot of UCI points available and the UCI points form worlds last for 2 years.
XC time trials have been a part of XC stage races for years.Kihaji said:
Can you say Super-D?
This might open a major gap between sponsored/funded racers and those who are not, making the gap between sport-expert-pro even more difficult to bridge. UCI is BS...I think I'm going to switch to racing 24 Hour full time.
This might open a major gap between sponsored/funded racers and those who are not, making the gap between sport-expert-pro even more difficult to bridge. UCI is BS...I think I'm going to switch to racing 24 Hour full time.
Yep, in fact, NORBA Nats at Big Bear started with a TT for XC. I flatted and my race was over. No pits would have helped though, I'd still have lost too much time getting to the pit to just get a new wheel.mattv2099 said:
Another negative aspect of pits which I just thought, and excuse me if it's been brought up already, is increased costs. Privateers may not be able to afford the extra parts and staff to man a pit let alone "up to 3 pits". Even smaller teams might have problems. Let's say a given course has two pit areas and there are 2 riders on the team. That's two mechanics and say 8 wheels and assorted other bits and tools. And then the wheels for the women's team. That's just more money and a greater need for sponsors. In my opinion its the Euro's who drove this new rule. They do not have the history we do in North America with off road racing. Road and cross yes. Self sufficiency has always been a key skill in off road racing.
indieboy said:
I don't know ANYONE that has crashed and punctured a camelback.
They get tested too...ask Houseman.indieboy said:
This was my point!oldfart said:
To be caught using a steroid usually is the result of a dumb user. Testing for enchancement doping is fairly easy to get around.Silver said:
Wasn't houseman caught for smoking weed? Not exactly a doping agent...but ironically its a lot easier to get caught with pot in your system then hgh, steroids etc...
Pit stops, then bathroom breaks, probably time-outs and more unnecessary additions to take away from strategy and critical thinking. DON'T GO CHANGIN'
http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/6962.0.html
A recent editorial saying what I said already and I'm sure many people thought as well.
A recent editorial saying what I said already and I'm sure many people thought as well.
May NORBA flex some muscle and let the true rules of XC racing remain.
B_A_MTBIKER said:May NORBA flex some muscle and let the true rules of XC racing remain.
Muscles?
What muscles? 
Calves and lungs??
