[norbar]

http://www.azfreeride.com/daily/view/105-macmahone-dh-prototype

If Im not wrong Macmahone is a catalog brand. Tw catalog copying has gotten a bit bold recently, dont you think? First that banshee copy and mortop, not this.
Though I have to say it looks a bit better than the supreme

 

[Beef Supreme]

Are you sure the V3 isn't a catalog frame?

 

[Nick]

Wow ... that also the new Commencial DH frame. No?

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

For comparisons sake:

Lots of subtle differences, but lots of similarities too.

 

[bizutch]

And despite all those pretty bushings, fancy curves and bolts for all that pivoting, the wheel itself is mounted on a single pivot.

 

[xy9ine]

And despite all those pretty bushings, fancy curves and bolts for all that pivoting, the wheel itself is mounted on a single pivot.

no more fancy bits than any other linkage actuated single pivot. looks solid.

 

[marshalolson]

the linkage pivot is in a pretty different place.

the macmahone looks nicer IMO. no idea on ride.

 

[Beef Supreme]

For comparisons sake:

Lots of subtle differences, but lots of similarities too.

Not quite as similar as I thought. Thanks for posting the pics.

 

[-BB-]

Tough to tell for sure, but the main pivot on the "copy" looks to be a little higher and maybe slightly more "forward". I think that would make it have a slightly more reward path at first. If you ran a large gear in front, that might be a bit better. It also (with the same gears on both) have slightly more anti-squat.

 

[norbar]

the linkage pivot is in a pretty different place.

the macmahone looks nicer IMO. no idea on ride.

But the main pivot is in a similar location - it may just be a bad copy, not a good one . Though even if it wasnt it may not legaly be a copy but the inspiration is clear and the 2 bikes look pretty damn alike.

 

[marshalolson]

it looks like the main pivot is ~1-2cm higher...

yes they obviously both have similar styling cues.

 

[heavy metal]

Lookin' good taiwan!

 

[Ithnu]

Tw catalog copying has gotten a bit bold recently, dont you think? First that banshee copy and mortop, not this.

I agree, small nuances, aside this is pretty obvious.

 

[bismojo]

+1 looks better around top-seat tube area IMO

... and the post mount

 

[kidwoo]

And despite all those pretty bushings, fancy curves and bolts for all that pivoting, the wheel itself is mounted on a single pivot.

So?





564645

 

[norbar]

A small update with some painted frames

I now see the differance in Pivot location. Still I wonder if macmahone is from the same company - ergo some same elements for lower production costs.

 

[drastic.]

copy or not, it looks sweet. what's the price for the frame?

 

[Lelandjt]

That's an awfully high pivot. My guess is it has more chain growth than any other contemporary frame without an idler pulley.

 

[norbar]

It looks as high as old orange 223 if not higher and I remembr them kicking like horses.

 

[syadasti]

Reminds me of a German brand (made in Asia too AFAIK) who made horst link bikes with a floating shock mount. This was long before Commencal's linkage activated single pivot version.

edit: http://www.fusionbikes.com/bikes/

 

[norbar]

Fusion Terminator?

 

[syadasti]

^Yup, they have had various models over the years^

I edited my post just before you posted.

 

[toowacky]

Fusion Terminator?

Bucks like an Evil? lol The eyes just say "oh sh**" to me....

 

[c101aviojet]

I just hope they flood ebay with the knockoffs soon.

 

[Transcend]

Bucks like an Evil? lol The eyes just say "oh sh**" to me....

Ha! I remember taking that. Working for that team was a gong show. Good times.

 

[StabprimoMonkee]

I owned a Fusion.

And somehow it didn't feel right. It felt wrong actually. Don't know why.

 

[worship_mud]

most probably because you broke it into pieces....

 

[norbar]

I just hope they flood ebay with the knockoffs soon.

Why would you pick a mule over a racehorse?

 

[Tedman]

The Macmahone proto is called the Killmeister. Due out in May 2012 according to the company.

I'd ride it if they gave me one.

 

[c101aviojet]

Why would you pick a mule over a racehorse?

I don't know why one should be a mule and the other a horse, since both frames probably come from the same factory. Knockoff frames might not have the same finishes, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be any weaker or ride any different (if they copy the geo too). Plus, I have the secret hope that this might be the firsts steps for an asian company before making cheap DH rigs.

Anyways, I wouldn't buy the first batch - I prefer to hear it passes the time test on the hands of some anonymous internet fella.

 

[norbar]

I don't know why one should be a mule and the other a horse, since both frames probably come from the same factory. Knockoff frames might not have the same finishes, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be any weaker or ride any different (if they copy the geo too). Plus, I have the secret hope that this might be the firsts steps for an asian company before making cheap DH rigs.

Anyways, I wouldn't buy the first batch - I prefer to hear it passes the time test on the hands of some anonymous internet fella.

If you read the posts in this topic you would understand the mule comparison. MacMahone has a very high pivot point. Too high for not having an idler imho. It will kick like a mule. Hence the comparison.

Also the company has been on the market for quite some time and even if they were not it is lazy engineering. Your first steps should be orginal. Its not only shamefull but really stupid from a marketing point of view because your bike will be mistaken for your copy. Especially since it comes from a much better recognised company. Why should we reward copying, lazyness and stupid behaviours? Even if the bike had a better pivot point I wouldnt buy it.

 

[Cabdoctor]

I just hope they flood ebay with the knockoffs soon.

Yeah thats one thing that baffles me. Ebay is flooded with knock of road frames and XC mountain frames, but no DH frames. I always wondered why. Seems like if they could do a a carbon XC frame for $300, they should be able to do an aluminum DH frame for about the same price if not cheaper.

 

[Lelandjt]

^Including shock? What about all the pivot hardware and the forged or machined bits? Just off the top of my head I'd say there's 3 times as much expense in building a DH bike than carbon hardtail.

 

[c101aviojet]

norbar, I wasn't talking about this particular model, but in general.
Your first steps should be original? I would like to agree, but I think it depends on the company. As I see it, a 1st world company typically makes small productions, so it can play the "originality card" and make frames which major brands wouldn't risk making; their customer wants a very specific frame, original or exclusive, so price is quite secondary.

On the other hand, many asian factories don't have the technology or the will to make anything beyond a simple or copied frame, but they can make them in huge numbers, so their product applies to low-medium budget customers. Making the copies close to the original it's a tactic to trick customers into buying them - if you don't have a brand name to hurt, where's the problem?
But if the frames are decent, it's a matter of time before the company see a market, grows bigger and tries to make a name and starts designing their own stuff - it has already happened with other products.

Rewarding lazyness? For me, lazyness is what "major brands" are doing. What has been their latest innovation? Adding another sprocket to the cluster and calling it a revolution? Copying the susp. system of the competitor? Changing decals every year? Inventing a new wheel standard?
From time to time you hear interesting ideas (like computerized suspension), but often it's also the last. It's brands like Zerode and a few others that really try to advance in different directions, IMHO.

My point is cheapo frames like this are the first steps towards decent asian DH rigs.

 

[norbar]

It doesn't have to be orginal. What it does have to be is not borderline copy. This bike is different but it obviously took a lot out of the supreme v3.

As for Asian Factories not having the technology to go beyond a simple copied frame? WTF? They either have the technology to make a given frame or not. That has nothing to do with orginality. It's the design proces that made the bike unorginal. I see this frame and see many ways how it could be designed using the technologies used. Not to mentioned MacMahone IS NOT A NEW COMPANY!!!

Also I don't care if a company will go legit after time. If for example you were a tatoo artist and you had spent a lot of time designing and creating a certain tatoo and after a few months you see a local hack do a half assed copy of your design how would you feel? Would you say "oh he may become a good tatoo artist in time" ? He won't and that never happens. You either want to have your ideas or you are lazy and decide to steal other peoples ideas.

As for the big companies - they are safe, not lazy. They don't explore niches often because it narrows their target group and they want to sell in larger quantity. Also all the big 3 redesign their bikes quite often. Yes the changes are small and mostly for the sake of marketing but at least they are their own designs (well maybe with the exception of the whole giant affair but now at least they try to be a bit different). How do you compare that to "let's make a crude copy of an existing bike and work from that"?

As for first step orginal frames:
- Banshee Legend was a first step. Keith designed it as his masters deg if I'm not wrong
- Zumbi f44 (2nd frame, took some cues from cortina and pdc but still not a copy)
- Duncon Cane Corso

Also Zerode you mention is their first frame, so is k9. Both very orginal frames. Can it be done? It can.

For cheap asian stuff - yt technologies. Yes first model had issues but was uber cheap and supposedly rode ok.

 

[fluider]

As for first step orginal frames:
- Banshee Legend was a first step. Keith designed it as his masters deg if I'm not wrong
- Zumbi f44 (2nd frame, took some cues from cortina and pdc but still not a copy)
- Duncon Cane Corso

Also Zerode you mention is their first frame, so is k9. Both very orginal frames. Can it be done? It can.

How Zerode got into that list, I don't understand...

For me it's funny how some people can get in such a lively discussion about designing and manufacturing bikes in Asia, when they (Asians) are copying entire production lines and facilities of western companies of much higher importance than bikes industry. Japanesse were doing that, and where are they now? South Koreans have been doing that, and where are they now and where are European car makers? When China get on the top of their wave, we'll only stare or continue complaining about "those thieves".

Stealing designs and technologies is not OK, but manufacturing in country where human labor costs nothing and words beginning with "eco" aren't included even in foreign expressions dictionary, that's OK?

 

[norbar]

How Zerode got into that list, I don't understand...

For me it's funny how some people can get in such a lively discussion about designing and manufacturing bikes in Asia, when they (Asians) are copying entire production lines and facilities of western companies of much higher importance than bikes industry. Japanesse were doing that, and where are they now? South Koreans have been doing that, and where are they now and where are European car makers? When China get on the top of their wave, we'll only stare or continue complaining about "those thieves".

Stealing designs and technologies is not OK, but manufacturing in country where human labor costs nothing and words beginning with "eco" aren't included even in foreign expressions dictionary, that's OK?

I know it benefits the company in the long run but I'm not going to support it. Anyone with a does of self respect and respect for the community shouldn't either.


Also why are you suprised Zerode is on the list. Isn't it their first bike?

 

[fluider]

As for Zerode, it surely is their first production design. It just isn't their design. But I'm definitely super happy they are continuing in something that has already proven its qualities, and are working on CF version. Some improvements they made have been inspirational for me in my project, I must say.

 

[no skid marks]

For me it's funny how some people can get in such a lively discussion about designing and manufacturing bikes in Asia, when they (Asians) are copying entire production lines and facilities of western companies of much higher importance than bikes industry. Japanesse were doing that, and where are they now? South Koreans have been doing that, and where are they now and where are European car makers? When China get on the top of their wave, we'll only stare or continue complaining about "those thieves".
Stealing designs and technologies is not OK, but manufacturing in country where human labor costs nothing and words beginning with "eco" aren't included even in foreign expressions dictionary, that's OK?

I agree. Petty small fish to fry. Especially when 99% of people on here have no consideration to anything, as long as they get the best cheapest bike they can.
How do we know the frame in question doesn't have an idler mounted off the pivot? I wonder if one could be put there. Split pivot or Horst link would've been a nice option.

 

[spam16v]

looks flexy