[Lexx D]

I'm at work on friday and some people started talking about iraq and bush etc..... All of a sudden one guy says "You know if everyone in this world was christian we wouldn't have this problem." This didn't sit well with me, i mean if everyone was muslim we wouldn't have this problem. If everyone was one thing we would not have alot of things like culture and diversity.
I have alot more to say about this but don't want to rant so post your thoughts so that i know if I'm the only person that this type of ignorant thought bothers.

 

[N8 v2.0]

I'm at work on friday and some people started talking about iraq and bush etc..... All of a sudden one guy says "You know if everyone in this world was christian we wouldn't have this problem." This didn't sit well with me, i mean if everyone was muslim we wouldn't have this problem. If everyone was one thing we would not have alot of things like culture and diversity.
I have alot more to say about this but don't want to rant so post your thoughts so that i know if I'm the only person that this type of ignorant thought bothers.

The guy is a moron.

Killing in the name of the Prince of Peace is a staple of Christianity.

 

[fluff]

If everyone in the world was Buddhist...

 

[Lexx D]

If everyone in the world was Buddhist...

That's what i told him. If everyone was buddhist we most likely wouldn't have any "problems"

 

[Andyman_1970]

The guy is a moron.

Killing in the name of the Prince of Peace is a staple of Christianity.

A "staple".............

Let's see what Webster has to say:

Main Entry: 4staple
Function: adjective
1 : used, needed, or enjoyed constantly usually by many individuals
2 : produced regularly or in large quantities <staple crops such as wheat and rice>

(disclaimer - I do freely admit that Christianity has been perverted by some to promote voilence both recently and historically. However, I would argue this is not an acruate picture of what Christianity is, it is a "version" that has been twisted and perverted by man)

True authentic Christianity neither needs or enjoys killing others........

Of course the use of the word "peace" there has very little to do with our definition of "absence of conflict", it should however lead to living in harmony with others however.

 

[$tinkle]

he is sorely mislead.
he sounds like exactly the type of christian this christian avoids.

also, if everyone were christian, there would be no need for christianity; kinda like a divide by zero error.

just for fun, grab your local yellow pages & go to the church section. Look at all the christian flavors. Ask this rube co-worker of yours to explain this. Collect his drool.

 

[Ciaran]

The guy is a moron.

Killing in the name of the Prince of Peace is a staple of Christianity.

I think that its more that killing in the name of anything or anyone that justifies our abhorrant behavior is a staple of HUMANITY.

But yeah, this guy is a moron.

Oh my gawd! I just agreed with N8! Ack! Unclean! Unclean!

 

[Westy]

If everyone in the world were Christians we would just have different Christian sects fighting each other. Few people realize how close Islam and Christianity are to each other. The Koran mentions the Virgin Mary more times than the bible does.

 

[Skookum]

If everyone in the world were Christians we would just have different Christian sects fighting each other. Few people realize how close Islam and Christianity are to each other. The Koran mentions the Virgin Mary more times than the bible does.

i wish people would fight over more important matters such as proper crocheting techniques.

 

[Changleen]

"You know if everyone in this world was christian we wouldn't have this problem." This didn't sit well with me, i mean if everyone was muslim we wouldn't have this problem.

Dude, you should have just said exactly that! - I agree. He is Mr. Narrowmind.

 

[Andyman_1970]

If everyone in the world were Christians we would just have different Christian sects fighting each other.

Sad but very true. I visit a Christian forum regularly, and it sickens me the level of hate there is among people who are suppose to be brothers and sisters in the faith............... :angry:

Few people realize how close Islam and Christianity are to each other. The Koran mentions the Virgin Mary more times than the bible does.

I'll take ignorance of world religions for 200 Alex......... But seriously, other than both faiths "manuals" mention Abraham, that's about where the similarities end, true Islam and true Christianity are two entirely different life philosophies. As for the Koran mentioning Mary, your point is? The Koran was written about 600'ish AD, about 500 years after the first manuscripts of the New Testament had been written, and were in the process of being cannonized. So it's not surprising that the writer of the Koran would have known or heard the "Jesus story".....and how does mentioning Mary equate to Christianity and Islam being similar?

It's funny no one mentions that Judaism is close to Islam, but yet Christianity is essentially a sect of Judaism (or at least it was at one time)..............so you see where I'm coming from when I dispute the claim that Islam and Christianity are similar.

 

[fluff]

Islam holds Jesus as a prophet and is related to Christianity as Christianity is related to Judaism.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Islam holds Jesus as a prophet and is related to Christianity as Christianity is related to Judaism.

I'll go with related instead of similar, all 3 are "related".

 

[Westy]

Sad but very true. I visit a Christian forum regularly, and it sickens me the level of hate there is among people who are suppose to be brothers and sisters in the faith............... :angry:



I'll take ignorance of world religions for 200 Alex......... But seriously, other than both faiths "manuals" mention Abraham, that's about where the similarities end, true Islam and true Christianity are two entirely different life philosophies. As for the Koran mentioning Mary, your point is? The Koran was written about 600'ish AD, about 500 years after the first manuscripts of the New Testament had been written, and were in the process of being cannonized. So it's not surprising that the writer of the Koran would have known or heard the "Jesus story".....and how does mentioning Mary equate to Christianity and Islam being similar?

It's funny no one mentions that Judaism is close to Islam, but yet Christianity is essentially a sect of Judaism (or at least it was at one time)..............so you see where I'm coming from when I dispute the claim that Islam and Christianity are similar.

Similarities:
-Monotheistic
-God is Omnipotent
-Heaven and hell/existence of Satan or Satan like character
-The world will end/a judgment day. People will be judged upon their worldly actions.
-Humans have a soul that exists after death.
-Free will
-Existence of angels as messengers of god
-Prophets brought spiritual instruction.
-Divinely revealed scriptures exist which are the primary source of religious knowledge.
-The Qur'an is definite in its assertion that Jesus is alive and that he will come back again at the end of the world.
-Jesus Christ was born to the Virgin Mary. The Immaculate Conception.

Sounds similar to me.
Got most of the info from various Internet sources, if they are wrong it is due only to my ignorance and gullibility. There are obvious differences but it seems to me both religions are built upon similar foundations.

 

[fluff]

I'll go with related instead of similar, all 3 are "related".

That's why I used it... Levels of similarity are relative after all...

I do like Islam's take on lending money for interest, shame that human nature (and the mullahs) ruined that one.

 

[X-rider]

I think the guy is a moron.

Don't kid yourself that there would be no problems if everyone was of the same religion. We would just split off into different factions of the same faith so we could blindly hate and kill each other over who worships the "correct" version of said faith.

 

[N8 v2.0]

I blame God for all the discord on this issue.

He should just show himself to the population of the planet, make sure there is no doubt as to who he is, and lay down the Law...

But that ain't never, ever, never, gonna happen... because it can't.

 

[Westy]

It seems that Islam lacks the centralization of power that most Christian sects do. I wonder if this could help explain the extreme range of muslim views?

 

[fluff]

It seems that Islam lacks the centralization of power that most Christian sects do. I wonder if this could help explain the extreme range of muslim views?

Is extreme range an oxymoron?

 

[X-rider]

I blame God for all the discord on this issue.

He should just show himself to the population of the planet, make sure there is no doubt as to who he is, and lay down the Law...

But that ain't never, ever, never, gonna happen... because it can't.

It probably won't ever happen, but why do you say it can't?

 

[Westy]

I blame God for all the discord on this issue.

He should just show himself to the population of the planet, make sure there is no doubt as to who he is, and lay down the Law...

But that ain't never, ever, never, gonna happen... because it can't.

N8, have you suffered a concussion lately? been riding without a helmet? Recently you seem to make sporadic sense. Maybe I suffered the concussion and just don't remember it.

 

[Westy]

Is extreme range an oxymoron?

extreme range is regular range that wears baggy pants and drinks Mt Dew.

 

[N8 v2.0]

It probably won't ever happen, but why do you say it can't?

Either because there is no God...

Or...

There is no God as portrayed in earthly religions (where it is all about selfish mankind) but rather a God that doesn’t care about our little carbon based life forms anymore than It would care about grains of sand in orbit around Pluto because there are much more complex issues to deal with in the universe.

 

[fluff]

extreme range is regular range that wears baggy pants and drinks Mt Dew.

Xtreme...

 

[fluff]

N8, have you suffered a concussion lately? been riding without a helmet? Recently you seem to make sporadic sense. Maybe I suffered the concussion and just don't remember it.

He generally does make more sense when he avoids politics and economics. A bit tricky in a political forum which is why it's only sporadic.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Similarities:
-Monotheistic
-God is Omnipotent
-Heaven and hell/existence of Satan or Satan like character
-The world will end/a judgment day. People will be judged upon their worldly actions.
-Humans have a soul that exists after death.
-Free will
-Existence of angels as messengers of god
-Prophets brought spiritual instruction.
-Divinely revealed scriptures exist which are the primary source of religious knowledge.
-The Qur'an is definite in its assertion that Jesus is alive and that he will come back again at the end of the world.
-Jesus Christ was born to the Virgin Mary. The Immaculate Conception.

Sounds similar to me.
Got most of the info from various Internet sources, if they are wrong it is due only to my ignorance and gullibility. There are obvious differences but it seems to me both religions are built upon similar foundations.

These are all true, and the faiths are all "related", but the fundamental philosophies behind them are very divergent.

Example: Take the Muslim idea of salvation and the Christian. The muslim idea is that as a human there are enough "good things" you can do to earn your right standing with God. Jesus taught that salvation, being in right standing with God, is an umerited gift from God and that there is nothing we can do to earn it.

The muslim "take" on God's character is also divergent from the Judeo/Christian idea that God loves us instead of a God who is waiting in heaven to zap us should we step out of line. The muslim idea of heaven, afterlife or "paradise" is also quite different from the Judeo/Christian idea.

 

[Tenchiro]

Man, if everyone in the world was christian. I would have built a rocket ship a long tme ago.

 

[Andyman_1970]

It seems that Islam lacks the centralization of power that most Christian sects do. I wonder if this could help explain the extreme range of muslim views?

I think there are just as many misguided extreme Christian views as there are Muslim. The difference is the extreme Christians are all hiding out on a compound in Montana plotting a coup on the US gov't, rather than blowing stuff up on the West Bank........

Or trying to get a state to suceed (South Carolina), so they can be their own country...............

 

[Skookum]

Either because there is no God...

Or...

There is no God as portrayed in earthly religions (where it is all about selfish mankind) but rather a God that doesn’t care about our little carbon based life forms anymore than It would care about grains of sand in orbit around Pluto because there are much more complex issues to deal with in the universe.

Possibly.
i really like how you present one God, for truly if there is a Creator there is only one and many different ways to view and celebrate these mysteries.
Only when people realize that we all come from one people, and that we all worship the same God and that religion and beliefs are merely a gift of enabling us to live more fuller lives, but not exclusive but just options or alternative individual and/or cultural paths to enlightment. Only then will the "world" see God.
Basically everyone has their own way, people are killing not for God but the are killing for their beliefs.
You might see me bash religion but truly i appreciate it's existance and honor the people who try to enhance their spiritual selves. But i hate how religions dominate and try to extinguish other beliefs, it's truly sad.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Possibly.
i really like how you present one God, for truly if there is a Creator there is only one and many different ways to view and celebrate these mysteries.
Only when people realize that we all come from one people, and that we all worship the same God and that religion and beliefs are merely a gift of enabling us to live more fuller lives, but not exclusive but just options or alternative individual and/or cultural paths to enlightment. Only then will the "world" see God.
Basically everyone has their own way, people are killing not for God but the are killing for their beliefs.
You might see me bash religion but truly i appreciate it's existance and honor the people who try to enhance their spiritual selves. But i hate how religions dominate and try to extinguish other beliefs, it's truly sad.

I think I agree with you on this, but I'm so confused I'm not sure...

 

[$tinkle]

Man, if everyone in the world was christian. I would have built a rocket ship a long tme ago.

you can have mine after the rapture.

 

[Skookum]

you can have mine after the rapture.

suprise, it's already happened....

 

[Skookum]

I think I agree with you on this, but I'm so confused I'm not sure...

People should be free to explore and enhance their spiritual selves just like you can be free to go to a gym and work out. But the world is full of people who want everybody to go to their gym and do their workout regimen thinking it's the only way. They believe it so much people die....
It's rare to find people who understand that everyone can walk an individual spiritual path....

 

[N8 v2.0]

People should be free to explore and enhance their spiritual selves just like you can be free to go to a gym and work out. But the world is full of people who want everybody to go to their gym and do their workout regimen thinking it's the only way. They believe it so much people die....
It's rare to find people who understand that everyone can walk an individual spiritual path....

True dat.

My sis is what I'd call a pagan Cathloic. She has the pueblo beliefs intermixed with Catholicism....

 

[BurlyShirley]

It's rare to find people who understand that everyone can walk an individual spiritual path....

But to beleive that, IMO, means that you believe there isnt any actual path at all. That its just a big plane where people can wander and there is no right and wrong, which of course, is mutually exclusive to almost all religions and even most people's personal values even if religion isnt involved. Non-belief is almost the only way.

 

[fluff]

But to beleive that, IMO, means that you believe there isnt any actual path at all. That its just a big plane where people can wander and there is no right and wrong, which of course, is mutually exclusive to almost all religions and even most people's personal values even if religion isnt involved. Non-belief is almost the only way.

He did say spiritual path. That can preclude certain physical acts.

If you are a non-believer, do you consider that there is no right and wrong?

 

[BurlyShirley]

.

If you are a non-believer, do you consider that there is no right and wrong?

I subscribe to the belief that right and wrong is almost always a matter of perspective. Otherwise, my values are based off of social facts and sociogenetic variables.

 

[$tinkle]

were you awake at 3 a.m. like i was watching that show on PBS that had JZ the Ramtha ("the Ram") channeler? Ramtha calls the 7 chakras the seals, as revealed in Revelation.

Silly infidel.

(i **really** want to avoid any discussion of the 1st pres debate...)

 

[Skookum]

But to beleive that, IMO, means that you believe there isnt any actual path at all. That its just a big plane where people can wander and there is no right and wrong, which of course, is mutually exclusive to almost all religions and even most people's personal values even if religion isnt involved. Non-belief is almost the only way.

Religion and Spirituality are not tied exclusively to one another. They are two separate entities. i believe spirituality to be a side of people just as one has emotions, mental capacity, and a physical self. In this i believe that it's not even necessary for one to believe in a Creator to be a spiritual person, for in my estimation being a spiritual person entails exploring the mysteries of this life and world and basing a lifestyle and outlook from the interpretations. Religion is a map for the journey, not the actual journey itself. Fundamentals you could say, but we all get to walk the walk even if we don't apply the teachings and you could say vice versa for the church goers who may be percieved as hypocrites if they don't walk the walk but just talk the talk.
So isn't it really just a big plane that we walk all over regardless?
Another tangent of religion and a more important one to me is just the discussion of the unexplainable mysteries we run into, and the tangible stories from our travels and how the intangible gifts can be weaved and applied into practical lifestyle. These discussion not being bantered about in a church per se but by 2 or more people all seeking a common ground in a desire to share and learn. So conventional religion means little to me personally. That's why riding an epic is almost like church to me.
But that's just me, which leads me to my point and your point which i put in quotes below, that validates that beliefs are personal regardless. Just because a majority may choose to align themselves in a sect doesn't make their way correct certainly. But if it works for them i'm happy for them to explore it with their freedom and will honor them if they respect mine. Not necessarily my belief, but my freedom.

I subscribe to the belief that right and wrong is almost always a matter of perspective. Otherwise, my values are based off of social facts and sociogenetic variables.

so now that i effectively not really responded to your questions and statements i'll blab further point by point:
But to beleive that, IMO, means that you believe there isnt any actual path at all.
Or maybe i believe that are just many paths, again right or wrong is based on perspective, your life and your decision will lead you down it regardless, i just think it's personalized to you.

That its just a big plane where people can wander and there is no right and wrong
well if you wanna get all philosophical we could play on this for an eternity.

which of course, is mutually exclusive to almost all religions and even most people's personal values even if religion isnt involved.
Organized religion is just a business that wants to take ownership mostly, but you are correct values are shared from it and shapes the culture we live in. But there are many cultures in this big and small world. But values are also lent to logic so religion can't take 100% responsiblity for keeping the planet from spinning off it's axis either.

Non-belief is almost the only way
in my way of percieving i would say that it's your way and it's working for you.

I subscribe to the belief that right and wrong is almost always a matter of perspective.
then you should at least buy into my basic premise (personalized paths thing above) regardless of if you buy into all the other crap i'm selling.

Otherwise, my values are based off of social facts and sociogenetic variables
my values are usually based off of social farts which is why i'm your biggest fan. :evil:

 

[Andyman_1970]

Religion and Spirituality are not tied exclusively to one another.

I couldn't agree with you more.

Being religious is "putting on a show", being spiritual (at least in the Judeo/Christian sense) is living an authentic, "real" life through your relationship with God and those around you.