[rockwool]

This statement was made by Yitzak Shamir who in the 40's was a member of the terrorist group Haganah, and later became the prime minister of Israel:

"It is unacceptable that nations made up of people who have only just come down from the trees should take themselves for world leaders...
How can such primitive beeings have an oppinion of their own."

What makes that different from similar **** that comes out from the mouths of redneck white supremicists?!!

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

This statement was made by Yitzak Shamir who in the 40's was a member of the terrorist group Haganah, and later became the prime minister of Israel:

"It is unacceptable that nations made up of people who have only just come down from the trees should take themselves for world leaders...
How can such primitive beeings have an oppinion of their own."

What makes that different from similar **** that comes out from the mouths of redneck white supremicists?!!

lol, you truly hate t3h j00, dont you?
you have to dig to statements made 30 years ago to find something to rationalize your generalized hate to the entire state of israel....

quite the tasteless comment on africans (regardless of the islamic revolution/genocide going on down there in the 70s).

 

[rockwool]

Here's a Jewish orthodox site that explains the difference between Judaism and zionism:

http://www.nkusa.org/index.cfm


WHAT IS ZIONISM?
JUDAISM VERSUS ZIONISM

Judaism believes in One G-d who revealed the Torah. It affirms Divine Providence and, accordingly, views Jewish exile as a punishment for sin. Redemption may be achieved solely through prayer and penance. Judaism calls upon all Jews to obey the Torah in its entirety including the commandment to be patriotic citizens.


Zionism rejects the Creator, His Revelation and reward and punishment. Among its fruits are the persecution of the Palestinian people and the spiritual and physical endangering of the Jewish people. It encourages treasonous, dual loyalty among unsuspecting Jews throughout the world. At its root Zionism sees reality as barren and desacralized. It is the antithesis of Torah Judaism.

There is a vile lie, which stalks the Jewish people across the globe. It is a lie so heinous, so far from the truth, that it can only gain popularity due to the complicity of powerful forces in the "mainstream" media and educational establishment.

It is a lie which has brought many innocent people untold suffering and if unchecked has the potential to create extraordinary tragedy in the future.
It is the lie that declares that Judaism and Zionism are identical.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Judaism is the belief in revelation at Sinai. It is the belief that exile is a punishment for Jewish sins.

Zionism has for over a century denied Sinaitic revelation. It believes that Jewish exile can be ended by military aggression.

Zionism has spent the past century strategically dispossessing the Palestinian people. It has ignored their just claims and subjected them to persecution, torture and death.

Torah Jews the world over are shocked and pained at this short-lived dogma of irreligiosity and cruelty. Thousands of Torah scholars and saints have condemned this movement from its inception. They knew that the pre-existing good relationship between Jews and Muslims in the Holy Land was bound to suffer as Zionism advanced.

The so-called "State of Israel" stands rejected on religious grounds by the Torah. Its monstrous insensitivity to the laws of basic decency and fairness appall all men be they Jewish or not.

We of Neturei Karta have been in the forefront of the battle against Zionism for over a century.

Our presence here is to refute the base lie that the evil, which is Zionism, in some way represents the Jewish people.

The reverse is true.

We are saddened day in and day out at the terrible toll of death emanating from the Holy Land. Not one of them would have occurred if Zionism had not unleashed its evil energies upon the world.

As Jews we are called upon to live in peace and harmony with all men. We are exhorted to be law abiding and patriotic citizens in all lands.

We condemn the current Zionist atrocities in the Holy Land. We yearn for peace based upon mutual respect. We are convinced that this proposed mutual respect is doomed to fail as long as the Israeli state exists. We welcome its abolition in a peaceful manner.

May we be worthy of true redemption when all men will join in brotherhood in His worship.

 

[rockwool]

lol, you truly hate t3h j00, dont you?
you have to dig to statements made 30 years ago to find something to rationalize your generalized hate to the entire state of israel....

quite the tasteless comment on africans (regardless of the islamic revolution/genocide going on down there in the 70s).

Hate the what?

Don't know when that statement was made, but if Yitzak Shamir hasn't come forth and appologized for beeing a racist then it still is an issue today.
You're talking about me hating when i've spoken of nothing but an immediate end to all killing.
Is that hating?
You on the other side, have spoken of nothing but a massive killing, the bigger the better because it has been far from big enough.
Or is that hating?

How can you down play the importance of that statement. What kind of society would elect a man that said something as racist as that, as their prime minister? That would never happen here. What about in Peru or in the US?
If people elect someone that is an outspoken racist, it must mean that the majority of that nation share his racist views. That is the only logical reason I get out of this.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Hate the what?

Don't know when that statement was made, but if Yitzak Shamir hasn't come forth and appologized for beeing a racist then it still is an issue today.
You're talking about me hating when i've spoken of nothing but an immediate end to all killing.
Is that hating?
You on the other side, have spoken of nothing but a massive killing, the bigger the better because it has been far from big enough.
Or is that hating?

How can you down play the importance of that statement. What kind of society would elect a man that said something as racist as that, as their prime minister? That would never happen here. What about in Peru or in the US?
If people elect someone that is an outspoken racist, it must mean that the majority of that nation share his racist views. That is the only logical reason I get out of this.

if you are going to quote stuff like that, you should research them better. that is assuming that is the true quote. from what i google, it seems to have been made (although i found no source worth of trust) in response to african states voting in favor of the "zionism is racism" UN resolution that got revoked a couple decades later.

people like that have been elected or got 2nd, as recent as this year in more than a few places around the world.
yet a statement made 30 years ago by a person, is not really good grounds to show repulsion for a state.
people dont hate the germans of today, for what hitler DID 60 years ago. (now that was an action instead of words, and a heck of an action too).

 

[rockwool]

if you are going to quote stuff like that, you should research them better. that is assuming that is the true quote. from what i google, it seems to have been made (although i found no source worth of trust) in response to african states voting in favor of the "zionism is racism" UN resolution that got revoked a couple decades later.

people like that have been elected or got 2nd, as recent as this year in more than a few places around the world.
yet a statement made 30 years ago by a person, is not really good grounds to show repulsion for a state.
people dont hate the germans of today, for what hitler DID 60 years ago. (now that was an action instead of words, and a heck of an action too).

"show repulsion for a state"
-Where do you get every thing from? You, not I, have advocated mass bombing of nations. You're mixing us two up...

So, lets asume your reaserch is correct; that Shamirs quote came as a response to African states voting for a resolutioin that zionism is a racist ideology.
Isn't Shamirs quote still racist? Of course it is! And it further proves their point when the head of state is an outspoken racist.

"people like that have been elected or got 2nd, as recent as this year in more than a few places around the world."
-And you mean that that makes it OK to be racist?!!

"yet a statement made 30 years ago by a person"
-that hasn't regreted what he has said and excused him selfe for being a hatful racist, still makes him a hateful racist, yes!

Israel has since 1967 acted in a way that matches the hateful words of Shamir. A few of those years have also been under his direct responsibility.
Germany has as a nation appologised them selves for their atrocities, something Israel or Yitzak Shamir, as a person, haven't done.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

"show repulsion for a state"
-Where do you get every thing from? You, not I, have advocated mass bombing of nations. You're mixing us two up...

So, lets asume your reaserch is correct; that Shamirs quote came as a response to African states voting for a resolutioin that zionism is a racist ideology.
Isn't Shamirs quote still racist? Of course it is! And it further proves their point when the head of state is an outspoken racist.

"people like that have been elected or got 2nd, as recent as this year in more than a few places around the world."
-And you mean that that makes it OK to be racist?!!

"yet a statement made 30 years ago by a person"
-that hasn't regreted what he has said and excused him selfe for being a hatful racist, still makes him a hateful racist, yes!

Israel has since 1967 acted in a way that matches the hateful words of Shamir. A few of those years have alsom been under his direct responsibility.
Germany has as a nation appologised them selves for their atrocities, something Israel or Yitzak Shamir, as a person, haven't done.

if that is the actual quote, the dude is a racist. i havent argue against that.
but so what?
you CANT held todays israeli liable for something shamir said 30 years ago.

i can quote some french diplomat making way more recent racist statements too, but so what?
do i get to use it against the french or the french government in any other way than "that dude is a racist"???

so i get to start a personally condemning thread awith an overly generalizing title like "france and french nationalism"??? of course not, that wouldnt be intellectually honest.

 

[rockwool]

To understand what zionism is, and the reason to how holocaust victimes can act as they do today, one must look at what type of enviroment it grew up in.


19'th century Europe was oozing of nationalism, colonist ideas, and there was a belief in the concept of survival between nations predicted by darwinism.
Zionism was a nation state ideology which aimed at the foundation of an independant Jewish state.

This ideology was dependant on the colonialist and social darwinist theories which dominated 19'th century Europe. According to these theories, the industrialized nations of the west had the right to colonize less developed nations.

This was envissioned as a natural result of the concept of survival between nations. The Jews who put forward the idea of zionism approved of this 19'th century European error, and constructed their own ideologies in the light of it.

What can one expect to come out of that but not elitism and racism? The actions of the IDF would not be possible without an elitist belief.
I also see a lot of similarities in the 19'th century Jewish movement with the ideology of intelectuals in the Greek liberation struggle that started in 1821.

 

[rockwool]

if that is the actual quote, the dude is a racist. i havent argue against that.
but so what?
you CANT held todays israeli liable for something shamir said 30 years ago.

i can quote some french diplomat making way more recent racist statements too, but so what?
do i get to use it against the french or the french government in any other way than "that dude is a racist"???

so i get to start a personally condemning thread awith an overly generalizing title like "france and french nationalism"??? of course not, that wouldnt be intellectually honest.

Yitzhak Shamir was Prime Minister of Israel from 1983 to 1984 and again from 1986 to 1992. He didn't become pm long after that racist statement and it's not that long ago he was the head of state for a second time. Apparantly the majority of Israelis agreed with him, and looking at their politics today, 14 years after, they haven't changed. That can only mean that a majority still today find other humans less worthy.

"i can quote some french diplomat making way more recent racist statements too, but so what? "
-It is not, so what. Then that Frensh guy is an idiot too and the Frensh gvmt should kick him from office, or it means that they agree with him, and should be critisezed too.
Racism is intolerable regardless of who expresses it.


EDIT:
"so i get to start a personally condemning thread"
-I started the thread to inform people of zionism, and that it has nothing to do with Judaism. Infact, Judaism and zionism are diametricaly opposed. There are a lot of Jews that are trying to get their word out about this but massmedia won't let it.
Among stuff that anti zionist Jews are trying to spread is:
*That the zionists have employed such concepts as "the chosen people" and "the promised land" from Judaism, and also that they are trying to equal the meaning of Judaism with zionism.
*Judaism, which is a devine religion, has become a veichle for zionism, which is a worldly ideology.
*Max Nordau, 2nd after Theodore Hertzl, was a confirmed atheist.

We have in other threads taken up examples from the Qur'an and the Torah commands peace and justice between people. For these reasons devowed Jews critisize Israeli terror as a violation of the Torah.
Among them is Britains Chief Rabbi Proffessor Jonathan Sachs, who critisizes that Israeli policy is treated as an equivalent to Judaism:
"There are things that happen on a daily basis which make me feel very uncomfortable as a Jew."
This is a side of the conflict that is not all to often heard; Jews critisizing Israel.