I picked up a Sunday for this season and it seems the stock 275# spring isnt quite getting it done under my girth. Anyone have a suggestion for a starting point on a heavier spring? I weigh in around 210, prolly closer to 225 with pads and gear.
Sunday spring weight suggestions?
- Thread starter SpasticJack
- Start date
no more turner???? Mark with out a turner is just plain weird
SpasticJack said:
Are you at the max 8mm of preload and how much air pressure do you have in the 5th? How much sag do you have?
Ska Todd told me sag should be between 30-50% depending on personal preferences.
Ok, here is the way I recommend you calculate your spring weight (works for Progressive and SPV shocks).
((Travel)/(Shock Stroke)-1)*(Body Weight)
For you
((8/3)-1)*210=350#
((Travel)/(Shock Stroke)-1)*(Body Weight)
For you
((8/3)-1)*210=350#
425 are you sure. I would work with the psi in the 5th a little more?
I am about two bills and run a 300#. On the Sunday small changes in spring weight have a huge effect. Run the lightest spring weight and lowest chamber pressures you can get away with.SpasticJack said:
For starters, go to this link for tuning info: http://www.ironhorsebikes.com/homepage_links/news_events7.shtmlSalami said:
On the Sunday, we recommend a minimum of 1/3 sag. Some riders can even fell comfortable with up to 50% sag. I personally run about 1/3.
That is WAY over sprung for your weight. 275# is the stock spring and aimed at people around 175lbs. Check out the site I listed above and try again with a lighter spring. You will have the same crisp pedalling feel but better small bump sensativity.NateH said:
-ska todd
You probably will want to be on a 250.s_c_biker said:
I weigh 155lbs plus gear. With my gear (including a loaded Mule, close to 10lbs) I am getting 30% with a 275lb spring. That is with one turn of pre-load (1mm) and 60 psi in the air chamber). Pretty much the mininum I can run. If you don't like much sag this may be okay for you.
I have a 250 Ti spring I am going to try out once I get collar I need to install it. It will let me dial in if needed but hopefully still allow me to run at 30% for the trail riding I am also using the bike for.
Quick...try that 250 and let me know how it works out for youSalami said:
I'm the same exact weight as you and pretty much get the same amount of Sag on mine with the 275# spring.I had a good chat with the Progressive guys at the Sea Otter, and they were convinced 275 should be okay for my weight and that 250 might be on the light side.
If BTI would stop screwing up and get me the collar I need :mumble: , it would have been on my bike already. I have had the spring for almost two weeks.Acadian said:Quick...try that 250 and let me know how it works out for you
I had a good chat with the Progressive guys at the Sea Otter, and they were convinced 275 should be okay for my weight and that 250 might be on the light side.
I have a feeling the 275 should should work okay but I REALLY want the Ti spring. Something about the 8.5 oz weight savings
that I really can't ignore and I haven't found anybody that makes a Ti 275lb. I am thinking the 250 should work but with obviously more pre-load. This just made me think of how to calculate the effects of pre-load on the spring rate. 
Edit: the collar is finally at the LBS, I will have the spring on tomorrow to check the sag.
I run the 400 with about 45psi in the chamber, I could run a lighter spring but that would give up the rebound that I like, the 5th rebounds a little slow for me and with a 400 I have a lot more and I still get 1/3 sag. My boss is my same weight and he runs the same spring as me and gets the same sag, so I guess thats kinda weird.
the 5th elements on all of the Sunday's have unbelievably slow rebound even with the rebound adjusted full out.
I had a 5th on my M-1 and the rebound worked normally. It would be all spring with the adjuster full out and peanutbutter slow with the adjuster full in. What is wrong with the new 5ths? Is it just me?
Is that just how they work with that light of a spring weight?
If so I will be swappng for a Fox if possible or the like.
Any suggestions IH guys?
I had a 5th on my M-1 and the rebound worked normally. It would be all spring with the adjuster full out and peanutbutter slow with the adjuster full in. What is wrong with the new 5ths? Is it just me?
Is that just how they work with that light of a spring weight?
If so I will be swappng for a Fox if possible or the like.
Any suggestions IH guys?
My 5th works in perfect sync with my 05 Boxxer WC the bike feels balanced and the rebound is not slow at all. I even have it a little faster than on my Orange 222 last year which had a 350 spring.
neaky:
I'm barely breakin the 150lbs mark nowadays - and with close to zero pre-load I only get like 22mm of sag with the 275# spring - that is less than 30%.
I got to squish sam hills around at bootled this past weekend. He said he is like 160lbs and was running a 300lb ti. It felt okay but undersprung for my 190lbs. My Sunday came with the 275 and it was waaaay to light for me AND the rebound was ****tily slow. I went to a 350lb. It was alittle better but still soo slow on the rebound. I called progressive and they informed me I should be at around 430lbs for my weight, of course there is no one that makes a 430, so they said the 400 should be optimal...they were unaware of any problems with teh rebound on teh sundays. I went to a 400 and it feels just about perfect. I can get the rebound fast enough for how I like it dh racing and it is about the right amount of sag. Still decent small bump sensitivity too. It took me quite awhile to get er dialed but it feels awesome now. I have an extra 350lb spring if anyone wants to try it shoot me a line: michael @ cactus bike dot com
More sunday ramblings - it is the sickest bike I have ever ridden. it's pretty much perfect. I got my new bushings today so it should be completely dialed in after I install em. Oh yeah...Hills black box boxxer was awesome feeling too. I think I finally got my Boxxer Team to start working alittle bettter....had to drain a bunch of oil out on race day and it feels decent...anyone know if a black box upgrade is available or how I can make that POS feel like 888??
More sunday ramblings - it is the sickest bike I have ever ridden. it's pretty much perfect. I got my new bushings today so it should be completely dialed in after I install em. Oh yeah...Hills black box boxxer was awesome feeling too. I think I finally got my Boxxer Team to start working alittle bettter....had to drain a bunch of oil out on race day and it feels decent...anyone know if a black box upgrade is available or how I can make that POS feel like 888??
da monk said:
Im not sure who you spoke with but at 190 you deffinately should not need a 400 lb spring. I am 180 - 185 and run a 300 lb spring and am on the verge of wanting to try a 275. Id suggest playing with your shock settings and running a slightly lighter spring.
da monk,
what do you want for that 350# spring?
what do you want for that 350# spring?
when you get a Ti spring, do you run the same spring weight as w/ steel?
well sorry to jump in..but i weigh 120...and i have ordered a 250 Ti spring...is that the lowest spring weight? should i go any lower? and also wat air pressure should i be running? i m currently running at 100...but most pple are running at around 60...should i go lower?
Read these set-up instructions and you'll be all set.TurnerDHRider said:
http://www.ironhorsebikes.com/homepage_links/news_events7.shtml
-ska todd
Here is a little setup guide for the Sunday. Rider weight is with gear and with minimal CV/T chamber pressure.
This guide is accurate and will give you the correct rates that you need.
Rider Weight:____________ Spring Rate:
140#___________________ 250#
155#___________________ 275#
175#___________________ 300#
205#___________________ 350#
240#___________________ 400#
270#___________________ 450#
This guide is accurate and will give you the correct rates that you need.
Rider Weight:____________ Spring Rate:
140#___________________ 250#
155#___________________ 275#
175#___________________ 300#
205#___________________ 350#
240#___________________ 400#
270#___________________ 450#
For anyone who can read this:
If you have a dw-link bike with a coil over shock, Sunday, 7POINT, there are updated shock tunes available from Progressive. I cannot be certain that all of the bikes out there have the latest shock tunes, but I can guarantee you that if you send your shock to Progessive, you will get the latest tune.
Make sure that you specify that the shcok is going on a DW-LINK Iron Horse Sunday or 7POINT, and that you want the lightest tune possible.
Here is why you need this:
The DW-Link is a one of a kind suspension system. In function, there is nothing else like it in the world. (although some marketing material out there would have you belive otherwise but thats a different story for another day)
In the simplest sense, this is what it does.
The DW-Link system almost completely cancels out suspension compression and extension due to the affects of mass tranfer and rider movement when you accelerate your bike.
Because of this, your rear wheel suspension is left to only deal with the bumps in the trail, NOT the bumps in the trail PLUS your mass transfer and pedaling related forces.
All shocks on the market today are designed to compensate for much less efficient systems. The shocks use higher spring rates and increased damping to achieve the identical performance under accleration that the DW-Link achieves. The 2005 DW-Link Sundays and 7POINTs run 1/3 of the compression damping of any other bike on the market that I am aware of today. Many shocks on ther market are actually incapable of attaining damping rates low enough to take advantage of the system's full potential. (Progressive and Avalanche have verified Shock tunes currently)
So basically, you need less spring rate and damping to get the same suspension preformance with a DW-Link than other suspensions. The end result are shocks that tun cooler, less forces in the frame, and a suspension that reacts to the smallest bumps without reacting to you.
Sound good?!
Dave
If you have a dw-link bike with a coil over shock, Sunday, 7POINT, there are updated shock tunes available from Progressive. I cannot be certain that all of the bikes out there have the latest shock tunes, but I can guarantee you that if you send your shock to Progessive, you will get the latest tune.
Make sure that you specify that the shcok is going on a DW-LINK Iron Horse Sunday or 7POINT, and that you want the lightest tune possible.
Here is why you need this:
The DW-Link is a one of a kind suspension system. In function, there is nothing else like it in the world. (although some marketing material out there would have you belive otherwise but thats a different story for another day)
In the simplest sense, this is what it does.
The DW-Link system almost completely cancels out suspension compression and extension due to the affects of mass tranfer and rider movement when you accelerate your bike.
Because of this, your rear wheel suspension is left to only deal with the bumps in the trail, NOT the bumps in the trail PLUS your mass transfer and pedaling related forces.
All shocks on the market today are designed to compensate for much less efficient systems. The shocks use higher spring rates and increased damping to achieve the identical performance under accleration that the DW-Link achieves. The 2005 DW-Link Sundays and 7POINTs run 1/3 of the compression damping of any other bike on the market that I am aware of today. Many shocks on ther market are actually incapable of attaining damping rates low enough to take advantage of the system's full potential. (Progressive and Avalanche have verified Shock tunes currently)
So basically, you need less spring rate and damping to get the same suspension preformance with a DW-Link than other suspensions. The end result are shocks that tun cooler, less forces in the frame, and a suspension that reacts to the smallest bumps without reacting to you.
Sound good?!
Dave
It no only sounds gode Dave I can verify it feel good
Todd and DW,
Thank you very much for the correct information.
I have heard many different speculated "correct" setups, and it is comforting to know what is really going on.
I only have one more question I hope you can answer, and that is about sizing. I am coming from an 04 17" SGS and now a 17" Sunday. The Sunday has about an inch longer front end. Does IH make a smaller size? an XS maybe? Or is the 17" Sunday the comparable bike size?
Thank you very much for the correct information.
I have heard many different speculated "correct" setups, and it is comforting to know what is really going on.
I only have one more question I hope you can answer, and that is about sizing. I am coming from an 04 17" SGS and now a 17" Sunday. The Sunday has about an inch longer front end. Does IH make a smaller size? an XS maybe? Or is the 17" Sunday the comparable bike size?
****!! How do I figure if my 5th has the latest tune? I would hate to send it if it already has it (plus have the down time and spend unnecessary cash). I wonder if Progressive keeps records about each shock.dw said:
If it feels right just ride it! If you have to have it serviced (as you should do at least once a season) then get it done w/ the latest, greatest tune. Or, if you are at an NCS race get it re-tuned there.Salami said:****!! How do I figure if my 5th has the latest tune? I would hate to send it if it already has it (plus have the down time and spend unnecessary cash). I wonder if Progressive keeps records about each shock.
-ska todd
There is a bar code on every Progressive shock, so they probably can tell you. If you set the rebound at full fast with 1 turn in on the CV/T chamber and 70 PSI, full out on the low speed and high speed screws, with a 275 or higher spring, it should be fast, not slow or just right. On a production shock I run a 275# and I run 3-4 clicks on the rebound to suit conditions.Salami said:****!! How do I figure if my 5th has the latest tune? I would hate to send it if it already has it (plus have the down time and spend unnecessary cash). I wonder if Progressive keeps records about each shock.
Dave
Just saw that in the TF's newsletter : http://www.tftunedshox.com/springcalc.htm
His calculations are lower than DWs above. 155lbs with a DW-Link comes out to a 250 spring.
hehe..for my 125lbs skinny ass...it says i need a 196lbs/in spring..i wonder if they make that spring..lolPAMS 25 said:
With a 05 Sunday Team with 5th element
I need to replace the stock 275 lb x 3 spring
for a heavier spring so i'm trying to work out
which spring to get to suit me and the sunday
the best
If a 400 lb spring is for a 240 lb person
and a 350 lb spring is for a 205 lb person
If I weigh in the middle of the two, say 220-225 lb
should I be using a 400 lb or 350 lb spring ?
Is it better to be undersprung or oversprung for your weight ?
i'm guessing get the lighter spring and preload it
to suit rather than the heavier spring
where you virtually want no or very little preload
I need to replace the stock 275 lb x 3 spring
for a heavier spring so i'm trying to work out
which spring to get to suit me and the sunday
the best
If a 400 lb spring is for a 240 lb person
and a 350 lb spring is for a 205 lb person
If I weigh in the middle of the two, say 220-225 lb
should I be using a 400 lb or 350 lb spring ?
Is it better to be undersprung or oversprung for your weight ?
i'm guessing get the lighter spring and preload it
to suit rather than the heavier spring
where you virtually want no or very little preload