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Knolly V-tach

dlb

Monkey
Apr 15, 2004
202
0
socal
gonzostrike said:
dude, if you took out your calculator and added up all your chi-chi "upgrades" on your various bikes you've owned, you'd find that you've probably already bought 3 or 4 V-Tach frames over the past 5 years.

but seriously,

Noel has no problem selling his frames. you can slag him on price if you like, but I see that as a bit childish.

and comparing it to an overcomplicated Nicolai just ain't right, man. the V-Tach isn't overcomplex.

++++++++++++++++++++++++

I have a V-Tach and a 6-Pack. the suspension feel and ride are very similar. since I tend to do more techie DH than FR, I'm considering selling my V-Tach frame in favor of a DHR, but the fact that I run 2 rings up front and am used to that keep turning me off the idea of a full-on DH rig.

the V-Tach feels more low-slung than the dedicated FR big hit rigs like a Banshee Scream or a Norco A-Line. it corners with more suppleness in its suspension compliance, and with more control in its wheel path (no torsional or sideways deflection felt). it's probably as well as I could do for a bike to suit my huge travel situations of techie DH and FR riding, even if I don't do the huge drops that Noel designed it to handle.

One thing to consider gonz, though Im sure the DHR handles and rides nice, it isnt a "full on FSR" so you might loose that beloved ride that you covet with the V-Tach and Pack. Maybe the Highline might be better for you than the DH'er, but the V-tach is probably one of those special frames that dont come around to often. Just a thought.
 

gonzostrike

Monkey
May 21, 2002
118
0
Montana
yeah that was a whole lot more thinking out loud than a serious position.

last Thurs I went over to Silver Mtn and rode their lift-assist DH runs, some of which were super techie and steep and all of which were fun as hell. not terribly fast, mostly tight and steep and in the trees, but the V-Tach was about all I'd ever want in that terrain. I run the rear and front suspension soft to give it a more "glued" feel, not firm for big drops - I don't do big drops.

I guess I"m just curious as to what a DH race bike would feel like, but this was something I thought about last year before ordering the V-Tach, so it's not like I'm really on the verge of selling the V-Tach. more wondering about the real differences on trail, and whether my not doing big drops makes the V-Tach more of something -- sheer burliness -- than I really need. just idle curiosity I guess.
 

Kntr

Turbo Monkey
Jan 25, 2003
7,526
21
Montana
gonzostrike said:
Noel has no problem selling his frames. you can slag him on price if you like, but I see that as a bit childish.

and comparing it to an overcomplicated Nicolai just ain't right, man. the V-Tach isn't overcomplex.
No slagging goin on here. I would just think if the Nicolai and Knolly frames were a little cheaper they would sell more and make more money. Maybe Im wrong. When I read that Nicolia only sold 60 gear boxed frames, I laughed.


I WILL end up with a new Fly, Knolly or Highline.
 
Jun 16, 2004
34
0
Vancouver BC
Sorry - I didn't realize that there was an active Knolly thread going on here!

Thank you all for the kind words about our products! From the ground up, Knolly Bikes was about making the absolute highest quality mountain biking frames possible. Quality doesn't start and finish with nice welds and paint: it flows into every aspect of our frame's design. We solidly define the frame's application, geometry, and other key features before we design the first piece of metal to be cut.

In terms of manufacturing, we're not afraid to take the long way around: we gladly use beefy CNC'd parts instead of welding three lower cost parts together: check out the V-tach's chain stay yoke and the BB block for examples of this. This provides excellent frame alignment and rigidity. We fully weld all tubes - including the internal miters, use German bearings and name brand fasteners. We are no stranger to custom extrusions and have even developed our own aluminum heat treating processes. We do the small touches as well, such as CNC machining the ID of our head tubes so that NO work has to be done to them by the shop apart from putting in some grease before they put in the headset. This makes a concentric and accurately sized head tube seat for maximum headset strength and durability.

The unique patent pending Four by 4 Linkage allows us some really neat design options: it allows us to use shorter chainstays for increased manueverability and climbing ability while providing lots of tire clearance; it keeps the seat stays / chain stays short making an extremely laterally rigid rear end; of course, it allows for a full length seat tube; and it puts the shock in a location that's easy to service, allows for long stroke shocks (hence our low 2.7:1 shock ratio), is isolated from lateral loads and protected from tire roost.

The Four by 4 Linkage also enables some really cool geometry characteristics, including low stand over height, a proper climbing position with the saddle extended, lack of any rear wheel interference with the saddle / frame, and allows us to make the frame in very small sizes. While the V-tach has about 7.5" of travel, because of the 2 degrees of head angle adjustment, the frame's "range of travel" is actually about 9.5". Yet, using the Four by 4 Linkage design, we can make this frame in an X-Small size (15" frame size) designed to fit riders between 5'1" and 5'4" tall.

Simply put, we are working really, really hard to design and manufacture truly innovative, reliable and performance oriented products of the highest quality - period. In all honesty, I can't say that it's been easy being a fledgeling start up company - we've certainly had some issues such as manufacturing delays, inconsistent suppliers, etc... However when I hear and read our customer reviews, I know that it's worth it.

As an aside, we have two new products that will be launched at Interbike 2005 which we are really excited about. One is an approximately 6" travel version of the V-tach - a lighter duty free ride frame / aggressive all mountain frame with typical build weights in the low to high 30 pound range (compared to the V-tach's typical weight in the low to high 40 pound range). The other is our new free ride hard tail which will continue (hopefully!) our progression in developing innovative products.

Even after saying all of that, in the end our customers are our best form of advertizing. They ride our products, have paid for them, and can give the public an un-biased review of our products in terms of reliability, durability, performance, customer support and value. Thank you to those customers of ours who have taken the time to give your thoughts to this forum! We also now have a review section on MTBR.com, so for anyone who's interested, there are more reviews here:

http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Freeride_Full_Suspension/product_125104.shtml

Please don't hesitate to contact me if any of you have any questions about Knolly Bikes and our products.

We can be reached here:

http://www.knollybikes.com/contact.html

Sincerely,

Noel Buckley
 

Tarpon

Monkey
Jun 23, 2004
226
0
North Bend, WA
knollybikes.com said:
Sorry - I didn't realize that there was an active Knolly thread going on here!
D'oh! I should have given you a heads up when this thread started up. I thought that you perused RM more frequently.
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
20,126
7,674
Transylvania 90210
quick side comment - i am very disappointed. there has been almost no thread hijacking or perifieral commentary going on here. the discussions are on topic and constructive.

carry on.
 

Tarpon

Monkey
Jun 23, 2004
226
0
North Bend, WA
mandown said:
quick side comment - i am very disappointed. there has been almost no thread hijacking or perifieral commentary going on here. the discussions are on topic and constructive.

carry on.
The Fox DH40 is weaksauce (I hate that term).

Is that better now. :p
 

dlb

Monkey
Apr 15, 2004
202
0
socal
knollybikes.com said:
As an aside, we have two new products that will be launched at Interbike 2005 which we are really excited about. One is an approximately 6" travel version of the V-tach - a lighter duty free ride frame / aggressive all mountain frame with typical build weights in the low to high 30 pound range (compared to the V-tach's typical weight in the low to high 40 pound range). The other is our new free ride hard tail which will continue (hopefully!) our progression in developing innovative products.

Sincerely,

Noel Buckley

You just had to do, go out and make a 6"er, just what I really didnt need, another frame to challange my 6 Pack. Now I have a goal this year at IB, well I got some news for you too, better bring some rags because after I leave your IB booth, there will be lots of drool to clean up!
 
Jun 16, 2004
34
0
Vancouver BC
dlb said:
You just had to do, go out and make a 6"er, just what I really didnt need, another frame to challange my 6 Pack. Now I have a goal this year at IB, well I got some news for you too, better bring some rags because after I leave your IB booth, there will be lots of drool to clean up!
Hey dlb!

Yup, hopefully our new prototypes will be ready for IB! It's getting really close and we're still waiting on the new down tubes, so to say that I'm getting a little stressed is an understatement!

Also, we won't have a booth "per say", but look for us at the Magura trailer during the dirt demo and hopefully a couple of other booths during the indoor show (last year we had V-tach's on display at DT Swiss and Progressive Suspension during the indoor show).

Ya, the 6" bike is going to be sweet: it looks a lot like the V-tach, but upon closer inspection it has quite a few noticeable differences. Firstly, it's about 2.5-3 pounds lighter, but should still will be quite laterally stiff and fairly burly. We're not competing in the lightweight long travel trail bike group, but in the "I like to abuse the s#!t out of my bike and if that means pedalling it up 5000' feet one day on a 6 hour epic, then hitting the lift serviced bike park the next day, so be it" crowd. It also has some cool features that will allow the bike to be built up as a low 30 pound long travel trail bike (with a fork like a Nixon, AM1 or Pike), or a high 30's 6" full on free ride bike (with a fork like the 36, 66, or even a travis single crown). We call it the 80% bike: it's about 80% of the cost, travel and weight of the V-tach :)

If you are going to be at IB - MAKE SURE you track me down. You can get my cell number if you call our office phone and will definitely be able to contact me during the show on my cell.

Cheers

Noel Buckley
 

dlb

Monkey
Apr 15, 2004
202
0
socal
knollybikes.com said:
Hey dlb!

Yup, hopefully our new prototypes will be ready for IB! It's getting really close and we're still waiting on the new down tubes, so to say that I'm getting a little stressed is an understatement!

Also, we won't have a booth "per say", but look for us at the Magura trailer during the dirt demo and hopefully a couple of other booths during the indoor show (last year we had V-tach's on display at DT Swiss and Progressive Suspension during the indoor show).

Ya, the 6" bike is going to be sweet: it looks a lot like the V-tach, but upon closer inspection it has quite a few noticeable differences. Firstly, it's about 2.5-3 pounds lighter, but should still will be quite laterally stiff and fairly burly. We're not competing in the lightweight long travel trail bike group, but in the "I like to abuse the s#!t out of my bike and if that means pedalling it up 5000' feet one day on a 6 hour epic, then hitting the lift serviced bike park the next day, so be it" crowd. It also has some cool features that will allow the bike to be built up as a low 30 pound long travel trail bike (with a fork like a Nixon, AM1 or Pike), or a high 30's 6" full on free ride bike (with a fork like the 36, 66, or even a travis single crown). We call it the 80% bike: it's about 80% of the cost, travel and weight of the V-tach :)

If you are going to be at IB - MAKE SURE you track me down. You can get my cell number if you call our office phone and will definitely be able to contact me during the show on my cell.

Cheers

Noel Buckley
I will do just that! Any chance that you know what shock you will be using? DHX 5 or air? Just wondering.

Will call soon, planning the trip already, looking forward to talking to you.
Take care, Bob
 
Jun 16, 2004
34
0
Vancouver BC
dlb said:
I will do just that! Any chance that you know what shock you will be using? DHX 5 or air? Just wondering.

Will call soon, planning the trip already, looking forward to talking to you.
Take care, Bob
Yup!

We're using a custom tuned Progressive Suspension Gravity Air shock, with an optional coil shock (probably either a 2 way or 3 way remote reservoir).

See you in September!

Noel
 

dlb

Monkey
Apr 15, 2004
202
0
socal
knollybikes.com said:
Yup!

We're using a custom tuned Progressive Suspension Gravity Air shock, with an optional coil shock (probably either a 2 way or 3 way remote reservoir).

See you in September!

Noel

Its that time amigo! This time next week I'll be relaxing after a day of dirt demoarama. Anywhoo, any updates on the new trailbike and do you have any solid info on the location of your booth?
Looking forward to meeting you! Bob
 
Jun 16, 2004
34
0
Vancouver BC
dlb said:
Its that time amigo! This time next week I'll be relaxing after a day of dirt demoarama. Anywhoo, any updates on the new trailbike and do you have any solid info on the location of your booth?
Looking forward to meeting you! Bob
Hey Bob!

We won't have a booth at the show, but will definitely be around: ya, a bit of a pain in the ass, but that's the fun of being a young company! E-mail me from the contact secion of our site and we can arrange to meet up. During the dirt Demo you will be able to find us at the Magura trailer: we'll be there for both days of the dirt demo.

We'll have a couple of V-tach frames - one a rideable demo (the other one has to stay nice and shiney for the indoor show) as well as the new 6" bike (the Delirium T) and our new free ride hard tail (the Free Radical) as well.

Here is some info that I just posted about the Delirium T on MTBR.com:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=1203668#post1203668 (Post #76)

Cheers!

Noel Buckely
 

gonzostrike

Monkey
May 21, 2002
118
0
Montana
Kanter said:
Any plans on making the Vtach a little lighter? Doesnt it weigh about 14 lbs with shock?
man up, sally! I have done some long climbs on my VTach this summer. I'm sure you could handle it if an old fart like me can.
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
20,126
7,674
Transylvania 90210
Kanter said:
Any plans on making the Vtach a little lighter? Doesnt it weigh about 14 lbs with shock?
if you can pony up the dough for that frame, you wallet should be light enough to make up for the extra frame :D

sweet frames. wish i had the money. will the new frames be a touch easier on the bank account? yes, i understand this is a high quality product made in small numbers, so the price needs to be high. a fella can ask though.
 
Jun 16, 2004
34
0
Vancouver BC
Kanter said:
Any plans on making the Vtach a little lighter? Doesnt it weigh about 14 lbs with shock?
Hey Kanter!

Currently the new Mk: V medium V-tach weighs about 13.3-13.5 pounds (depending on paint). The Mk V models weigh slightly more than the previous Mk IV models (such as Gonzo's): this is mainly due to a new tube set used in the front triangles which is about 100 grams heavier than the Easton Tube set it relaces because it is designed specifically for 1.5 head tubes. We really don't have any plans to make it lighter for the forseeable future. It is designed to be a super solid rig and we simply do not want to compromise that philosophy. There are other frames out there with similar travel that certainly weigh less, but I feel they give up features and performance to get that weight down. For comparable multi pivot and linkage actuated single pivot bikes, I think we're pretty much right in the middle (maybe upper middle) of the spectrum.

The V-tach is not a DH racing frame, nor a much simpler single pivot frame. It is a frame that is purpose built for North Shore style riding and lift accessed bike park riding. So far we have an amazing reliability record with this frame, and that is something that I have no intention of changing just to start gram shaving. We have customers who put these frames through very serious and abusive riding on a regular basis. While this many be only a portion of the total riders on this frame, it is an extremely important portion because this is what the frame is advertised by the manufacturer to do. A reliability problem could be disasterous for any rider and that is a chance that we simply do not wish to take.

All parts and assemblies on the V-tach frame have also been extensively refined with solid model FEA analysis to help ensure minimal failures. A classic example of this on the frame are the horizontal, parallel "push links". These are the links that go on either side of the seat tube and drive the shock from the "coffin shaped" rocker links. Sometimes I hear people commenting on those: "Oh - look at those skinny links." Well, they are only ever loaded in tension or compression and EACH link fails at over 4000 pounds (two tons). Hence, to buckle those links would require over 4 tons of force on the rear shock - that would translate to 1.5 tons of weigh supported by the rider's feet and none by their hands. So if you're Magnus Von Magnuson and can squat a VW Jetta, then we might have an issue - otherwise, I think we'll be OK :)

Also, I don't feel that we're out of line with other heavy duty frames in the market:

Demo 9: 14 pounds
Demo 8 12-12.5 pounds (plus, only 135mm QR rear axle - a quarter pound savings right there).
Rocky RMX: 13 pounds (again, 135mm QR axle)
Banshee Scream: 13.5-14 pounds
Norco Shore: 11.5-12.5 pounds?

On top of that, we offer a lot of features not available in many of these frames: a true full length seat tube, adjustable head angle and wheel base, fully replaceable derailleur hanger and disc tabs, 1.5 head tubes, tons of tire clearence, no tire or lnkage interference with the frame and saddle, and many more features... And, it's a linkage bike that is extremely stiff laterally.

Sure, there are some others that are lighter weight like the Foes Fly, Yeti ASX, etc... but these are totally different bikes with different feature sets.

If you really want, we do offer Ti springs which knock about a third to half a pound off the frame weight :)

Anyway, that's my long winded, utterly defensive explanation (or perhaps philosophy) of why the V-tach weighs what it does!

Cheers,

Noel Buckley
 

oly

skin cooker for the hive
Dec 6, 2001
5,118
6
Witness relocation housing
knollybikes.com said:
Anyway, that's my long winded, utterly defensive explanation (or perhaps philosophy) of why the V-tach weighs what it does!

Cheers,

Noel Buckley
Great explanation Noel.

I dont know you, or have any dealings with your bikes, but your attitude, honesty, and obvious dedication puts you up in the ranks of Dave Turner and Pippen and DW. Its great to see guys like you who take the time to interact with current and potenial customers.

Keep up the good work!
 
Jun 16, 2004
34
0
Vancouver BC
oly said:
Great explanation Noel.

I dont know you, or have any dealings with your bikes, but your attitude, honesty, and obvious dedication puts you up in the ranks of Dave Turner and Pippen and DW. Its great to see guys like you who take the time to interact with current and potenial customers.

Keep up the good work!
Thanks!

Yes, attempting to follow threads on several forums requires a LOT of time (even with the search function) and offen I just miss them entirely because we're sooooo busy.

Now I need to fit time in to sleep and to spend with my wife!

Cheers,

Noel Buckley
 

gonzostrike

Monkey
May 21, 2002
118
0
Montana
and to put Noel's post into perspective:

I have owned 3 big bikes, SC Bullit ... Banshee Scream ... Knolly VTach.

While the Knolly has the heaviest frame of the three,

all 3 of my big bikes have weighed 40-43 lbs.

My VTach is right in there at 43 lbs. I could pare some weight by using a lighter crankset, handlebar, seatpost and that chi-chi Ti spring Noel referenced.

The 2006 Norco A-Line is scheduled to weigh 43 lbs for a medium frame, and that's for the "lightweight" DH racerboy model.

If you're as smooth as Steve Peat you can ride a 37 lbs DH race bike and not worry.

I'm not even in Peaty's league in my wildest fantasy. And I want my parts to stay integrated while I ride my bike. So I have a middleweight.

Thoughtfully designed frames make the frame weight irrelevant when the parts are added on and the bike is under you. That's what I've found to be the case. There'd be much more to worry about if someone without Noel's knowledge and experience (and willingness to pursue excellence) had designed a 13.5 lbs frame, because they might put more of the weight up high where it WOULD make a difference.
 

gonzostrike

Monkey
May 21, 2002
118
0
Montana
Kanter,

you need to get over yourself. YOU DO NOT SET NOEL'S PRICING.

you make a salary in the upper 10% of all Montanans, I'd wager.

quit being such a grabby yuppie and buy something for its quality, rather than for its showiness.

man, you can be a right arse sometimes, apparently. :mumble:
 

zmtber

Turbo Monkey
Aug 13, 2005
2,435
0
it looks to me the suspension design is really pointless but i don't know so don't get mad at me. can any of you guys tell me the positives about having the suspension and pivet designs the way they are on this bike
 

konabiker

Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
669
0
Santa Barbara
zmtber said:
it looks to me the suspension design is really pointless but i don't know so don't get mad at me. can any of you guys tell me the positives about having the suspension and pivet designs the way they are on this bike
To achieve an un-interupted seat tub.

Noel makes some really cool bikes. I'm looking forward to seening the new offerings.
 

frorider

Monkey
Jul 21, 2004
971
20
cali
noel has explained his design philosophy plenty of times elsewhere; just do a search under knolly if you want to get what he's doing.

last year i exchanged some emails with him and i was impressed with his answers...they made sense from an engineering perspective.
 

Kntr

Turbo Monkey
Jan 25, 2003
7,526
21
Montana
gonzostrike said:
Kanter,

you need to get over yourself. YOU DO NOT SET NOEL'S PRICING.

you make a salary in the upper 10% of all Montanans, I'd wager.

quit being such a grabby yuppie and buy something for its quality, rather than for its showiness.

man, you can be a right arse sometimes, apparently. :mumble:
Wow, where did that come from? Did I say anything about setting a price? You sure can be rude sometimes. Where did you get that from?


I did buy a bike for its quality.... a Foes.

I say good luck to Knolly. The bike is sweet. This ones for you gonzostrike. :thumb:
 
Kanter said:
They look pretty sweet. Anyone own one, ride one, etc. Any info would be appreciated.

The only thing I dont like about it is the seat tube angle but the effective angle isn't too bad. Can someone explain how the seat tube angle can be 58 but the effective seat tube angle can be 72?
The way the two seat angles work out is that say you had a full seat-tube, at 72*, and the seat is set at that spot, but the swing the post forward till 58* while keeping the seat in that same spot, and at which this time you would have the Knolly set-up... :thumb:
 

Tarpon

Monkey
Jun 23, 2004
226
0
North Bend, WA
Kanter said:
Wow, where did that come from? Did I say anything about setting a price? You sure can be rude sometimes. Where did you get that from?


I did buy a bike for its quality.... a Foes.

I say good luck to Knolly. The bike is sweet. This ones for you gonzostrike. :thumb:
He spends a lot of his time ranting on the Political Forum over on mtbr.
 

Kntr

Turbo Monkey
Jan 25, 2003
7,526
21
Montana
I know of 2 people, where I live, that want Knollys. I hope Noel sells a lot of em. They are sweet bikes that are well thought out. To me I just cant justify a $3200 frame that doesnt come with anything. Look at the 06 2:1 Foes for $2900. It comes with so many extras that the price doesn't seem that bad. I dont want a DH bike so the 2:1 is out.



Noel,
Does your frame come with anything extra? Your pics show a hub but I didnt read any mention of one coming with the frame. What kind of warranty?
 

bagtagley

Monkey
Jun 18, 2002
236
11
VA
Noel

Did I read that you guys will be at the Zion Freeride Festival? I hope so cause I'm looking forward to seeing one of these things in person.
 

Turd Ferguson

Monkey
Dec 21, 2004
223
0
Burbank
gonzostrike said:
Kanter,

you need to get over yourself. YOU DO NOT SET NOEL'S PRICING.

you make a salary in the upper 10% of all Montanans, I'd wager.

quit being such a grabby yuppie and buy something for its quality, rather than for its showiness.

man, you can be a right arse sometimes, apparently. :mumble:
Dude you're from Montana?
Oh that's right missoula-fornia
btw, What kind of bike can you buy for 'showiness' that doesn't have quality?