Some idiot is posting a 12 x 12 sign on the Tunnel Trail head everyday now. I know its being posted every day about 6:15am. It says attention downhill mtn bikers You are ruining this trail for everyone It goes on a few more sentences but I tore it down before I read it all. It was anti biking and very political. I called the Park Rangers and they seemed sympathetic to the poster. Public National Parks are not the place for posting your personal opinions about anything. So be forewarned. Theres a nutbag taking the time to manufacture the signs, drive all the way up Gibraltar and hang them. The next step will probably be sabotaging the trail. That was happening last year when you would turn a sharp corner only to find a nice pile or rocks and branches just waiting to catch your front tire. Just in case you are the nutbag posting these signs, get a life.
805 Anti-Downhill Tunnel Trail Signs
- Thread starter Lookingglass
- Start date
What do you mean by the trailhead? I've been up there a few times since I heard people talking about these signs and haven't seen anything yet. Are you referring to the first part you hit dirt between the two boulders near the dirt track or up near the bellbox next to the water tower drop?
The signs have been wired to the "Tunnel Trail" signs at the post by the road and the second sign which is 20 yards away. The bell box is not at the trail head.
Have any idea what time this nut is getting up there every day to put up new signs? As other people have mentioned about SB trails, it is a good idea to document these things in case he should become a suspect in some sort of trail conflict - ie get his license plate.
Edit: Sorry just re-read the original post. It seems odd he would be showing up at the crack of dawn since that is one of the most popular times to ride it because there's no hikers. It's surprising nobody has seen him yet.
Edit: Sorry just re-read the original post. It seems odd he would be showing up at the crack of dawn since that is one of the most popular times to ride it because there's no hikers. It's surprising nobody has seen him yet.
This is all going to end up proving the whole "the squeeky wheel gets the grease" phrase true. The psycho hikers are causing all kinds of noise over a few bad seed DHers. However, I don't think anybody from our team has stepped up and organized something to educate the people about the mountain bikers side of the argumnet. It's going to be extremelly tuff but, the SB locals need to organize themselves, create a credible counter assualt, and reach out to the rest of the trail users as "fellow concerned trail user" and not just "out of controll DHers". There needs to be a squeeky wheel on our side. A very big-super tacky-dual ply-squeeky wheel.
Someone should go up there at 5:00 and hide in a bush and film him doing it. I really suggest that everyone in SB get a disposable camera for rides (just in case you see anything like booby traps). They are about $5 at costco for a 2x pack.
ncrider is absolutely correct on this one. There NEEDS to be a very active and loud SB downhill/mtb organization actively fighting this. Believe me, I know how hard it is to find people willing to tackle something like that but it can be done. I think that you guys up there are getting to a very critical point in your trail access fight, and unless you organize and start loudly making your voices heard you may lose the fight.ncrider said:
I have been lucky enought to have ridden both Tunnel and Cold Springs and I feel that the trails are worth fighting for. I only wish I could offer better help and advice.
Funny how the sign reads like the yellow warning sign on sbmtv.org.
And I ride the fron country everyday If I get the chance. So stfu.
And I ride the fron country everyday If I get the chance. So stfu.
Chris is a really cool guy. I don't think it would be him. I haven't read the sign though so what do I know.Lookingglass said:
*this thread is worthless w/o pics*......not really, but post a picture of the sign.
not sure,....I just want to see what it looks like.
It's not Chris, I talked to him about the signs and he's as disappointed about it as we all are.Lookingglass said:
And Ciarin, we have one of the best advocacy org's in the MTB world here locally in the form of SBMTV. But we also have some of the wealthiest and most opinionated bastards so it takes a lot to defend/represent ourselves. Especially considering most riders are not nearly as wealthy as these loud mouthed complaining snobs, nor are we as politically connected as to get our biased BS stories published in the local media from our perspective. Trust me it's a HARD battle we're fighting here but we are fighting it tooth and nail.
Just you wait. If the bozo does try to booby trap the trail, it only gets worse from piles of rocks and sticks. Remember ATT? "Bofus" was putting logs wrapped with barbed wire, and 2x4's with nails through them. He also drove his Bobcat out there, and ripped the hills appart, causing avalanches.
For those of you who haven't heard the rest of the story, he eventually constructed a series of walls, which is now just one big, solid, metal wall (which "someone" spraypainted "Great Wall of Bofus" on). There is now a trail going around the wall.
For those of you who haven't heard the rest of the story, he eventually constructed a series of walls, which is now just one big, solid, metal wall (which "someone" spraypainted "Great Wall of Bofus" on). There is now a trail going around the wall.
I might be willing to help organize a club, maybe call it the SB Mountain Bike Coalition or something. I've been riding these trails for 23 years and there has always been whacko hikers and equestrians trying to close them to bikes since the very first day they saw a bike on a front country trail.
I also have been riding dirt bikes in the backcountry for years and it is always some asshole Mountain Biker that stops to throw rocks at me as I slow down to respectfully pass him at 5 mph in first gear- wtf gives?
So essentially a lot of MTBers out there are bad news and the ones that aren't need to group together and expose the bad seeds themselves lest they get lumped together.
It would be possible to form a non-profit and get a clubhouse and do it like they would in Britain- actually have a spot to hang out and party and have meetings and fix bikes, etc.
The hikers and equestrians are not organized and are far outnumbered by cyclists.
The reason the trails are still open is because there are a lot of people that hike the front country 2-3 times a year but there are 100x the people that ride the trails, both up and down and shuttling every week of the year. These are lawyers, doctors and employees from the city and county. Since we have the largest user group, we can monitor our trails and probably catch those destroying the trails trying to slow down bikers and get them prosecuted.
The ultimate burn is to get them fined or sent to jail, and the bad seed bikers will get exposed along the way and forced off the trails or to shape up.
It all comes down to you guys and girls out there who do not slow down and stop for hikers- because let's face it who in the hell wants to get surprised and have some idiot riding by them at 25mph on a 45lb bike that looks to be out of control? Scares me to think about it and I am a biker. Cannot imagine how scary it is when you have a dog and kid with you.
Ken
I also have been riding dirt bikes in the backcountry for years and it is always some asshole Mountain Biker that stops to throw rocks at me as I slow down to respectfully pass him at 5 mph in first gear- wtf gives?
So essentially a lot of MTBers out there are bad news and the ones that aren't need to group together and expose the bad seeds themselves lest they get lumped together.
It would be possible to form a non-profit and get a clubhouse and do it like they would in Britain- actually have a spot to hang out and party and have meetings and fix bikes, etc.
The hikers and equestrians are not organized and are far outnumbered by cyclists.
The reason the trails are still open is because there are a lot of people that hike the front country 2-3 times a year but there are 100x the people that ride the trails, both up and down and shuttling every week of the year. These are lawyers, doctors and employees from the city and county. Since we have the largest user group, we can monitor our trails and probably catch those destroying the trails trying to slow down bikers and get them prosecuted.
The ultimate burn is to get them fined or sent to jail, and the bad seed bikers will get exposed along the way and forced off the trails or to shape up.
It all comes down to you guys and girls out there who do not slow down and stop for hikers- because let's face it who in the hell wants to get surprised and have some idiot riding by them at 25mph on a 45lb bike that looks to be out of control? Scares me to think about it and I am a biker. Cannot imagine how scary it is when you have a dog and kid with you.
Ken
are you sure the riders out number the amount of hickers. especialy those rich montecito hickers.
By far- they always have -that is why in 23 years of trying to get the bikers thrown off they cannot because there are 100's of MTBers that are doctors and lawyers and rich Montecito residents that just don't want to get lumped in with the downhiller crowd, etc. But they secretly make sure nothing goes through to prevent them from riding Romero every morning, etc.
Hey, why dont mountainbikers invest in their own better signage?
Nobody wants to hit hikers right?
Everyone knows about yeilding right?
Why not put up a warning to tell hikers how not to get creamed on the DH trails?
Something like
Warning
This is a multi-use trail system and is popular with mountain bikers. These bikers have a responsibility to ride in control and yeild to hikers and horses, but there are a few simple precautions you can take to avoid injury.
Due to the nature of mountain biking, riders may not be able to take their hands off the bars to signal their intentions, the terain may force them to take certain lines down the trail, and some very steep or rough sections may not allow them to stop immediately when coming downhill.
To minimize the risk of collision with bikers,
-Never stop or sit down in the middle of the trail, especially around tight corners or steep sections.
-Never assume that a biker has seen you.
-Always signal your intentions verbally or with clear hand gestures.
-Always listen for unusual noises that might signal the approach of a rider.
-When being passed by a rider, make sure dogs and small children are safely off the trail as well.
Nobody wants to hit hikers right?
Everyone knows about yeilding right?
Why not put up a warning to tell hikers how not to get creamed on the DH trails?
Something like
Warning
This is a multi-use trail system and is popular with mountain bikers. These bikers have a responsibility to ride in control and yeild to hikers and horses, but there are a few simple precautions you can take to avoid injury.
Due to the nature of mountain biking, riders may not be able to take their hands off the bars to signal their intentions, the terain may force them to take certain lines down the trail, and some very steep or rough sections may not allow them to stop immediately when coming downhill.
To minimize the risk of collision with bikers,
-Never stop or sit down in the middle of the trail, especially around tight corners or steep sections.
-Never assume that a biker has seen you.
-Always signal your intentions verbally or with clear hand gestures.
-Always listen for unusual noises that might signal the approach of a rider.
-When being passed by a rider, make sure dogs and small children are safely off the trail as well.
skatetokil said:
That is such a good idea!! I think starting that group wouldn't be a bad idea. There is SBMTV, but I think I heard, they are a more XC group.
I've been up there almost every single morning this week at 6:15 and haven't seen anything. Of course, I wasn't looking very hard, but there weren't any signs in obvious places by the trailhead.
R
Rabie
Guest
skatetokil said:
Um, roughly translated, this is what your sign says:
"This is a multi-use trail system and is popular with mountain bikers. These bikers have a responsibility to ride in control and yeild to hikers and horses, but due to the nature of mountain biking, they often cannot do this, and are therefore by nature irresponsible."
Since the only logical extension of this, the only responsible extension of this, is to ban bikers, I'm thinking it's not such a good sign.
That makes a lot of sense.Rabie said:
I mean, it's all true though. We all try our best, but if some putz is standing right in the middle of a chute picking his nose, he might get hit and IMO it will be his own damn fault. There is a limit to what even the most "responsible" and skilled riders can do on the bike, and, lets face it, most of us are mountain bikers because we enjoy pushing our limits. I think we need to have a conversation with the hikers about realistic trail etiquet and factors that might impair our ability to yeild. Maybe my wording makes us look bad. It was just a first draft.
The fact of the matter is, we are very maneuverable and can stop on a dime in most cases. But as anyone who has ever taken a crash knows, sometimes miscalculation, the trail surface, the grade, and obstructions conspire to make us momentarily unable to do a damn thing other than go where the bike wants to go. Quite often, we have to commit the bike to a line and once we're at speed, the only way to get off that line is to bail off the bike. If people are paying attention, they can tell when and where riders will be comitted to lines. I think asking hikers to pay attention isnt really that terrible. Nobody has the right to walk the earth with his head up his ass after all.
I think most of us would take a crash rather than nail a hiker, so this is really a matter of our own safety as much as it is theirs.
The fact of the matter is, we are very maneuverable and can stop on a dime in most cases. But as anyone who has ever taken a crash knows, sometimes miscalculation, the trail surface, the grade, and obstructions conspire to make us momentarily unable to do a damn thing other than go where the bike wants to go. Quite often, we have to commit the bike to a line and once we're at speed, the only way to get off that line is to bail off the bike. If people are paying attention, they can tell when and where riders will be comitted to lines. I think asking hikers to pay attention isnt really that terrible. Nobody has the right to walk the earth with his head up his ass after all.
I think most of us would take a crash rather than nail a hiker, so this is really a matter of our own safety as much as it is theirs.
Yes, however if everyone just worries about themselves, and reminds others DHers when they get the chance, to yield to hikers and to follow the rules. If you do this we won't have this problem with hikers. Stop thinking well, I won't make a difference, and then have a complete disregard for the common rules of the SB trails, because it’s not true. One can help our goal in having good name with hikers, or could make one more hiker that will hate and throw rocks at the next Dher that they see (not wanted rocks hurt). However if anything happens to you from a hiker, remember “kill them with kindness”(there is always crazy’s on the trails who don’t show us any common courtesy) and then report it, don't yell at them and be jerks, because this doesn't help the bias that is SBDHs. We don’t want to be kicked off the trails just because of a few jerks DH who don't give a damn and have to big of an Ego.
Wait wait wait wait......I have never heard of a hiker throwing rocks at DH'ers, and better yet, a hiker not being beaten into the dirt and thrown off the side of the mountain as a result. Can you elaborate on that please?
Well just a few weeks ago with punkassean, there was a hiker that yelled at us for yielding the trail to him. He said we were not huseling, we replied with, "Sorry sir we were just looking out for your saftey as it is our duty to yeild the trail to you." Lets just say the cat bit his tongue. While we let him pass he shouted out, "You're the ones that killed the horse." Refering to DHers as a whole. We just let him leave and think about his arogance. Zmtber is saying don't be that ass biker who goes up to those few crazies and say, "what, what did you say." This won't help use in the long run, and if you give the hikers nothing to complain about then eventually they will figure out we have and arn't doing anything wrong.
I saw some anti downhill biker website awhile back. Can anyone help me out with finding it again? It was way over the top. Nazi hikers that HATED DH'ers....
I believe this is the site your talking about: http://www.safetrails.net/
sleepinggiant said:
I love reading that site when i need some entertainment. It's a good site to show how you can misconstrew news clippings by being selective of that you print.
Kinda funny it hasne't changed in like 4 years,also kinda funny there are only like 3 letters from hikers on there.......hmmmmmmmm
That is so funny. I though this was the wilderness, not a sidewalk. Are they going want to pave it next?http://www.safetrails.net/bike_dam.asp said:Shoulder Slump - The shoulder of the trail is first cut away as the edge is ridden, then sections of it 'drop,' often leaving just a narrow remnant of the original trail bed on the high side.
Soil gone can't be put back. Unsafe to walk.
Here along Cold Spring, the ‘trail’ is a pulverized mess. Unsafe footing.
Major erosion pending. Candidate for a landslide.
that trail looks fun. i wanna ride it.
I saw one of those stupid signs today at the top of Romero. The sign was right on the horse gate, next to the bell box. The sign was backed by a peice of cardboard, and then wired through two holes to the gate. After i twisted it off, i put it in my camel pack so i that could dispose of it correctly once i was off the trail.
i like the part about
riders riding extremely close to hikers to "dust" them is unacceptable
riders riding extremely close to hikers to "dust" them is unacceptable
i would at-least but a busstop on that walkway