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Found this kinda intersting...Sinister R9 with floating brake mount??

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
3,346
190
Vancouver
"Sinister has come to a simple solution to avoid paying royalties to Specialized, the owner of the FSR patent. They added a floating disc brake mount welded to the chain stay. This will give you the option to get rid of the minimal brake jack you get from this bike. Personally I haven’t found it to be an issue. I’ve ridden all summer without it and have never noticed it affect my ride. I really do like the way this bike rides. But it is nice that they give you that option."
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Sinister-R9-Bike-Test.html


And silly me always thought it was for the resevoir of a shock...plus, aren't floating brake arms supposed to be mounted to the frame???
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
4,157
359
Roanoke, VA
That is just PinkBike intelligence at work... Very much a mount for an external shock resevoir. FTW did some floater proto's. He didn't like it, so he never put them into production.
 

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
3,346
190
Vancouver
CBJ said:
I don't think that makes sense since its not a FSR bike so they would never have to pay anything to Specialized.
At least they got that right in the review. They said they had to have the pivot at a different location in order to avoid having to pay Specialized.
 

dexter

Turbo Monkey
Sep 23, 2001
3,053
99
Boise, Idaho
man the r9 is one of the most under rated dh race frames out their. i seriously have never ridden a better feeling arce bikein my career (6 years) everything just seems so perfect on it. never have noticed brake jack
 

bballe336

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2005
1,757
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MA
As it has already been statred that is for an avy style resi. Brake jack can easily be avoided without a floater. The way brake jack has been explained to me it seems like its a bunch of hype for people to buy extra parts that they don't need. Although that's another topic. I also wouldn't listen to anything said on pinkbike. They reviewed a Sinister DNA with a DC fork on it.
 

frznnomad

Turbo Monkey
Jun 20, 2005
2,226
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a-town biatches
okay it doesnt make since to put a resevoir mount on the inside of the chainstays. to me it seems like the resevoir would get in the way with the wheel but i dont know much about how wide those resevoirs are and im not the guys putting all the r&d into the frame. it just doesnt seem like that would work, but i guess its the only thing that makes since cause well there is no way you can mount a floating brake calliper there cause well that mount doesnt piviot so it would be pointless. so i guess my question is will the resevoir fit there. lol that took to long.
 

Zark

Hey little girl, do you want some candy?
Oct 18, 2001
6,254
7
Reno 911
bballe336 said:
The way brake jack has been explained to me it seems like its a bunch of hype for people to buy extra parts that they don't need. Although that's another topic.
Brake jack and squat are quite real suspension phenomena. Want proof? Ride the original Tomac 204 magnum (Lawill suspension/no floater) down a steep gnarly DH, then do the same thing on a Yeti DH (Lawill/floater) You'll know that its a real thing then.:p

Its not so bad on some designs and absolutely terrible on others. Floater brake kits are not just a bunch of hype, they do a job, quite well, and are an excellent upgrade for some bikes. Does every bike without a horst link need one? No. But to say they are just hype is ignorant.
 

Zutroy

Turbo Monkey
Dec 9, 2004
2,443
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Ventura,CA
Zark said:
Brake jack and squat are quite real suspension phenomena. Want proof? Ride the original Tomac 204 magnum (Lawill suspension/no floater) down a steep gnarly DH, then do the same thing on a Yeti DH (Lawill/floater) You'll know that its a real thing then.:p

Its not so bad on some designs and absolutely terrible on others. Floater brake kits are not just a bunch of hype, they do a job, quite well, and are an excellent upgrade for some bikes. Does every bike without a horst link need one? No. But to say they are just hype is ignorant.

Jack and squat are really two different things. Most bikes including single pivots squat to one degree or another.

Jack is what the lawill based designs do, and boy did that suck, as zark said. The storm H2 design felt like a catapult when you hit the brake.
 

Zark

Hey little girl, do you want some candy?
Oct 18, 2001
6,254
7
Reno 911
Zutroy said:
Jack and squat are really two different things. Most bikes including single pivots squat to one degree or another.
True, I should have mentioned that! I was just sighting cases of braking forces interfering with suspension movement. Either one will hinder suspension "activity"
 

bballe336

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2005
1,757
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Zark said:
Brake jack and squat are quite real suspension phenomena. Want proof? Ride the original Tomac 204 magnum (Lawill suspension/no floater) down a steep gnarly DH, then do the same thing on a Yeti DH (Lawill/floater) You'll know that its a real thing then.:p

Its not so bad on some designs and absolutely terrible on others. Floater brake kits are not just a bunch of hype, they do a job, quite well, and are an excellent upgrade for some bikes. Does every bike without a horst link need one? No. But to say they are just hype is ignorant.
Yes, I know it is real. What I should have said is that by braking at the proper times you will notice it less. I have never ridden a lawwill bike so I can't comment on that. But, most of the DH bikes i have ridden have not had terrible brake jack. At least nothing that would hinder my riding. It is pretty easy to adapt to the way a bike handles so on many designs a floater isn't neccessary. Is that lawwill really that bad?
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
4,157
359
Roanoke, VA
frznnomad said:
okay it doesnt make since to put a resevoir mount on the inside of the chainstays. to me it seems like the resevoir would get in the way with the wheel but i dont know much about how wide those resevoirs are and im not the guys putting all the r&d into the frame. it just doesnt seem like that would work, but i guess its the only thing that makes since cause well there is no way you can mount a floating brake calliper there cause well that mount doesnt piviot so it would be pointless. so i guess my question is will the resevoir fit there. lol that took to long.
 

Zark

Hey little girl, do you want some candy?
Oct 18, 2001
6,254
7
Reno 911
bballe336 said:
Is that lawwill really that bad?
The original Tomac 204 Magnum was a goddamn ejection seat!
Lawwill bikes without floaters are bad news. Most bikes its not too bad and some barely noticeable, but the Lawwill design NEEDS one:p

Its an extreme example, most modern bikes have minimal interaction. But its an indvidual thing, some people who've gotten used to active braking have a tough time on less active designs.

It depends on the terrain, riding style, etc. But it is just one part of the equation; geometry, weight, pedaling and braking all have to be accounted for in choosing a frame.
 

Zutroy

Turbo Monkey
Dec 9, 2004
2,443
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Ventura,CA
Zark said:
The original Tomac 204 Magnum was a goddamn ejection seat!
Lawwill bikes without floaters are bad news. Most bikes its not too bad and some barely noticeable, but the Lawwill design NEEDS one:p

Its an extreme example, most modern bikes have minimal interaction. But its an indvidual thing, some people who've gotten used to active braking have a tough time on less active designs.

It depends on the terrain, riding style, etc. But it is just one part of the equation; geometry, weight, pedaling and braking all have to be accounted for in choosing a frame.
The Storm was too.
 

Scurry

Monkey
May 9, 2003
276
0
Boston
frznnomad said:
okay it doesnt make since to put a resevoir mount on the inside of the chainstays. to me it seems like the resevoir would get in the way with the wheel but i dont know much about how wide those resevoirs are and im not the guys putting all the r&d into the frame. it just doesnt seem like that would work, but i guess its the only thing that makes since cause well there is no way you can mount a floating brake calliper there cause well that mount doesnt piviot so it would be pointless. so i guess my question is will the resevoir fit there. lol that took to long.
actually it makes perfect sense, it would never get in the way of the wheel. the resoviors are like not much thicker than the chainstay.
 

joelsman

Turbo Monkey
Feb 1, 2002
1,369
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B'ham
high single pivot bikes need floaters and so do lawwills. the closer to the BB the pivot is the better in terms of no brake jack.
 

James

Carbon Porn Star
Sep 11, 2001
3,559
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Danbury, CT
Zark said:
Brake jack and squat are quite real suspension phenomena. Want proof? Ride the original Tomac 204 magnum (Lawill suspension/no floater) down a steep gnarly DH, then do the same thing on a Yeti DH (Lawill/floater) You'll know that its a real thing then.:p

Its not so bad on some designs and absolutely terrible on others. Floater brake kits are not just a bunch of hype, they do a job, quite well, and are an excellent upgrade for some bikes. Does every bike without a horst link need one? No. But to say they are just hype is ignorant.
Ah ha ha ha ha ha, I wonder where you rode one of those? :)
Best bike ever, as long as you weren't pedaling or on the brakes...
Speaking of which, anyone have one they wanna sell me? :)
 

Inclag

Turbo Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
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joelsman said:
high single pivot bikes need floaters and so do lawwills. the closer to the BB the pivot is the better in terms of no brake jack.

Neg. Do a search
 

Kntr

Turbo Monkey
Jan 25, 2003
7,526
21
Montana
Zutroy said:
Single Pivot


The more I look at it, the more it looks like a 4 bar with a pivot on the seatstay rather than on the chainstay like Specialized.

Why would it be considered a single pivot when it does have 4 pivot points?
 

zedro

Turbo Monkey
Sep 14, 2001
4,144
1
at the end of the longest line
joelsman said:
high single pivot bikes need floaters and so do lawwills. the closer to the BB the pivot is the better in terms of no brake jack.
high pivots squat more but are also more prone to breaking traction. When traction breaks or the tire skips the 'squat force' is lost and the suspension unloads. This sudden unloading can be perceived as brake jack but it is not.
 

WheelieMan

Monkey
Feb 6, 2003
937
0
kol-uh-RAD-oh
Kanter said:
The more I look at it, the more it looks like a 4 bar with a pivot on the seatstay rather than on the chainstay like Specialized.

Why would it be considered a single pivot when it does have 4 pivot points?
Because the brake caliper is attached directly to the swingarm. When determining how the suspension is affected by braking, only the pivots that affect caliper rotation are important. (of course a rising rate, and falling rate suspension with the same pivot point will behave slightly different under braking because the amount of total brake squat/jack is influenced by the rate/amount of force needed to compress the suspension.)