How low is too low?

bballe336 · Apr 23, 2006

The sunday is a much different bike than the m1. It has a more progressive suspension, less travel (if you have a newer M1) and much different geometry than the M1. And yeah 165 cranks would help.

Red Bull · Apr 23, 2006

Different suspension designs and more progressive...

The Sunday is 13.9, Thats a decent height. I run a 13.6 and absolutely love it. However any lower wouldent work well for my riding style. Im running 170mm Saints.

Red Bull · Apr 23, 2006

Eurotrash said:
which bike has a 13.6 bb? that is getting seriously low!

My drilled out Turner DHR. Its like 14.7 stock with a 8" fork, and It drilled with an 8" boxxer is 14 flat, and it drilled with a 7.5" DH40 its sitting at 13.6. If I wanted to get it even lower I could run an e.13 Zero Stack Headset and I'm told that would put it at 13.3 but thats a little too low for me and my 170mm cranks.

biggins · Apr 23, 2006

especially for the rocky courses here on the east coast.

3D. · Apr 23, 2006

Red Bull said:
My drilled out Turner DHR. Its like 14.7 stock with a 8" fork, and It drilled with an 8" boxxer is 14 flat, and it drilled with a 7.5" DH40 its sitting at 13.6. If I wanted to get it even lower I could run an e.13 Zero Stack Headset and I'm told that would put it at 13.3 but thats a little too low for me and my 170mm cranks.

Drilled DHR here too (around a 7mm offset)... sits about 13.5 with a Dorado. John K. originally told me about the idea a couple of years ago at Big Bear, and Ive never gone back to stock. I love it low BBs with a nice head rake are the only way to go if you want to be fast in turns.

It may not be very comfortable for some people, due to the potential of smacking a pedal on the ground, but if you can get use to it youll find the lower center of gravity really makes for improved cornering.

I use 170s, but you might want to go 165.

Bikerpunk241 · Apr 23, 2006

Lowest I ever ran was 13.75 on my orange a couple years ago. Now, am on a sunday which actually feels lower (probably because the suspension is more active, and a little softer). Just gotta watch your pedals, and choose carefully where you want to take a pedal stroke.

bballe336 · Apr 23, 2006

I am running 13.8 inches on my faith. I have 170 cranks and it feels pretty good but 165's would be nice. There is a reason the sunday comes with 165's.

julian_dh · Apr 23, 2006

Bikerpunk241 said:
Lowest I ever ran was 13.75 on my orange a couple years ago. Now, am on a sunday which actually feels lower (probably because the suspension is more active, and a little softer). Just gotta watch your pedals, and choose carefully where you want to take a pedal stroke.

which geometry hole did u use cuase ive got a lil bit below 14" bb liek 13.7 or something like that with a sherman slider and im wondering if i could get a 13.5 or 13.even or will lowering it another hole

konabiker · Apr 23, 2006

Depends on the course.

Bikerpunk241 · Apr 23, 2006

julian_dh said:
which geometry hole did u use cuase ive got a lil bit below 14" bb liek 13.7 or something like that with a sherman slider and im wondering if i could get a 13.5 or 13.even or will lowering it another hole

It was on my 2004 223. Ran a 8.75x2.75 shock instead of a 9.5x3.0. Had a slider on it too. Just make sure the piggy back and the wheel aren't hitting the frame and you're good to go. Here's a pic of the 223 so you can see which holes the shuttle is mounted through. http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84105

biker3 · Apr 23, 2006

My Morewood sits at 13.6 right now, I ride our rocky trails, I rode Windrock and didn't have any noticeable problems hitting cranks or my bash. I have 165mm XTs and run clips, so I guess that could have something to do with it. I like low BBs all around, I'll take a few pedal hits if it means I can push a corner that much harder. As long as you run 165mm cranks, it shouldn't be THAT big of a deal if you're fairly smooth and don't try to mash through rocks.

Rye_Bread · Apr 23, 2006

Red Bull said:
My drilled out Turner DHR. Its like 14.7 stock with a 8" fork, and It drilled with an 8" boxxer is 14 flat, and it drilled with a 7.5" DH40 its sitting at 13.6. If I wanted to get it even lower I could run an e.13 Zero Stack Headset and I'm told that would put it at 13.3 but thats a little too low for me and my 170mm cranks.

0 rise headset, 7" 888r, drop crowns, drilled and my Turner is in the 12" range. Somewhere around 12.5".

-Ryan

konahucker43 · Apr 23, 2006

i got a question for someone. ive got a v10 which doesnt have a LOW bottom bracket per say. i think its like 14.8 but with the large ammount of sag the bike has how does it compare to say the sunday or something with a LOW bottom bracket.

konabiker · Apr 23, 2006

konahucker43 said:
i got a question for someone. ive got a v10 which doesnt have a LOW bottom bracket per say. i think its like 14.8 but with the large ammount of sag the bike has how does it compare to say the sunday or something with a LOW bottom bracket.

Sagged out the V10 is pretty low slung. Sit on your bike and get someone else to measure it.

Ian Collins · Apr 23, 2006

i'll be running my drilled turner around 13.5...it's wierd at first, but once you get used to it, you'll never go back...it just takes 3 things.....

1) getting used to it.....
2) 165 cranks
3) 36T guide

no skid marks · Apr 23, 2006

Definately superior for cornering and I also prefere it in the air as you don't feel as tall,but I'll stick to 14.5 thanks,tracks around me are to rugged and I don't like having to pick such specific lines and not be able to pedal. 4X or anything else for sure go low.

bballe336 · Apr 23, 2006

no skid marks said:
Definately superior for cornering and I also prefere it in the air as you don't feel as tall,but I'll stick to 14.5 thanks,tracks around me are to rugged and I don't like having to pick such specific lines and not be able to pedal. 4X or anything else for sure go low.

I run a relatively low BB and the trails I ride are pretty rugged as well. In rough sections I have poor line selection. I try and let the bike just go over what ever is in the way (I don't plow though). I haven't had a problem with the BB being too low but I don't pedal much either. You should try a bike with a slightly lower BB, It could really benefit your riding.

Cave Dweller · Apr 23, 2006

I use a 9.375 x 3 inch shock on my turner (.125 inches shoter then stock) and my bb with a 02' 7inch monster is 14.15inches. Im not willing to drill the turner, too much dremeling required to make sure nothing hits (which it does, there is more to the mod then just drilling a new hole)

I wouldn't go any lower myself. As it is dropping the bb 0.4inchs has resulted in alot more pedal clipping, i have been using the same pedals for 2 years, second i droped it 4 pins have been ripped out. Most of the trails in blue mountains, sydney, Australia are like one big rock garden, top to bottom. But, if you can ride these tracks fast you can ride anything, just ask rennie, wacka plus others :cool:

Timmy Bee · Apr 23, 2006

could anyone explain this "drilling" mod for the turners?

AR_ · Apr 23, 2006

Basically, the hole where the linkage joins the swingarm (The small push link), can be moved back along the swingarm. A few mm back from the current. Then you have to dremmel off where the old hole was, as this will hit at full travel with the new hole.. For some reason at 2am i'm finding it hard to explain, i'm sure someone will enlighten you with a picture..

Just out of curiosity, does anyone run this mod where the tracks they usually ride are tighter and twistier? Not open fast corners etc?

Cave Dweller · Apr 23, 2006

AR_ said:
Basically, the hole where the linkage joins the swingarm (The small push link), can be moved back along the swingarm. A few mm back from the current. Then you have to dremmel off where the old hole was, as this will hit at full travel with the new hole.. For some reason at 2am i'm finding it hard to explain, i'm sure someone will enlighten you with a picture.

Yep, either take off some of the swingarm (probably not a good idea so you can still go back) or dremel off some of the swing link. You can see the impact area below with the link moved back around 6mm, still another 3/4 of an inch of shock shaft travel left yet.

You also need to dremel away some of the material around the bb area, like in the attached pic.

With my mod, lowering the bb 0.4inches it is almost touching (less then 1mm in it), anylower and it will hit 100% for sure. But be warned, there is a reason the material is there. Taking it away will make it more squarish, like the 03 ones which had a cracking problem around that area, hence the reason 04-06 have more material in the area. Your call though, i wouldn't do it to my $2500 frame.

John Kirkindale has also said this is what is done to his frame to make the mod work.

ChrisKring · Apr 23, 2006

I switched over to 165mm cranks on my V10 while I was at Windrock a few weeks ago.

All day on Saturday I was using 170mm cranks. I was consistantly hitting my pedals on rocks in the same place. No big deal though.

A teammate of mine ripped hid pedal right out of his crank so I loaned him my 170mm cranks off my bike and installed the 2006 165mm Holzfellers that I had in my toolbox (I was too busy to install before the trip). Anyway, I actually notice that I hit fewer rocks. I never would have believed it.

Bicyclist · Apr 23, 2006

I definately feel crank length. 170 and 175 feel way different to me. I like 170 way better but I don't think I'd go much shorter.

julian_dh · Apr 24, 2006

today i was bored and decided to try some new settings i started by lowering my bb but even with the smallest adjustment it was way to low a 13" so i raised my fork in the crowns and got it to 13.5" and a slacker headangle. ran it felt good, then i set my sag to about .75" on 3" of stroke. cant wait to try it with the new shock settings as the bike feels totally different alredy.

Rye_Bread · Apr 24, 2006

mine's around 12.5"

Laaz · Apr 24, 2006

How low would you go with 175 cranks?

dhkid · Apr 24, 2006

my bb is 14.5 with 175mm cranks. could prolly go a bit lower. rock gardens dont bother me too much, but pedaling in corners is horibble.

Tom IH · Apr 25, 2006

bballe336 said:
I am running 13.8 inches on my faith. I have 170 cranks and it feels pretty good but 165's would be nice. There is a reason the sunday comes with 165's.

How did you get it that low ? :hot:
I thought Faith had pretty high bb....

CBJ · Apr 25, 2006

I change from 170 to 165 on my Sunday this year and had the same experience as Chris just described. I run beefy NYC Freeride pedals and Profile cranks so hitting some rocks is not a problem.

tlproject7 · Apr 25, 2006

he made the faith low by flipping the links, i did the same thing, and it makes for a much nicer dh bike

julian_dh · Apr 25, 2006

Laaz said:
How low would you go with 175 cranks?

13.5" 175mm cranks

santacruzer87 · Apr 25, 2006

my Turner DHR is at 12.25" I just measured

thats....
3" Lower than a V10
1.5"-2.5" Lower than a 303
.75" lower than a yeti 4x
.35" lower than a santa cruz blur 4x
same as a santa cruz jackal

Bicyclist · Apr 25, 2006

santacruzer87 said:
my Turner DHR is at 12.25" I just measured

thats....
3" Lower than a V10
1.5"-2.5" Lower than a 303
.75" lower than a yeti 4x
.35" lower than a santa cruz blur 4x
same as a santa cruz jackal

That's crazy! I hope you ride in SC 'cause anywhere w/ rocks would kill your bike.

ÃX · Apr 25, 2006

Bicyclist said:
I definately feel crank length. 170 and 175 feel way different to me. I like 170 way better but I don't think I'd go much shorter.

yeah i played with some 160 to see how low i could go.

but i had no power. 170 is my limit too.

i run the 160 on my dirt jump bike now so i can X-w/o hitting my foot. :cool:

Kntr · Apr 25, 2006

14" for DH racing-170mm
15" for FR-175mm

bballe336 · Apr 25, 2006

Tom IH said:
How did you get it that low ? :hot:
I thought Faith had pretty high bb....

With the 170mm 66 the BB on them is about 14.6 And with the Jr.T it is about 14.25 or so. I am running a sherman slider. It is 13.8 roughly without the links flipped. With the flipped links I would be somewhere around 13 flat. I really don't feel the need to go that low and at that height I would be worried about destroying my cranks.

Laaz · May 13, 2006

For those who run 36 or 38T chainrings; do you use road or mtb cassettes?

How would it be 38T with 11-32 mtb cassette?

dhkid · May 13, 2006

**** those are low bbs. just to check, is everyone measuring thier bb heights right? thats from the centre of the bb (not the bottom) to the ground.

How low is too low?

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