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Building up endurance?

dG video

I blew a mod to get this title
Feb 25, 2004
2,133
0
vermont
I don't want to be one of the guys that could use a break half way down the course anymore. Or the ones that stop after each section. How do you guys build up endurance for the whole race run? I don't want answers from people that "heard this, or heard that" I want some advice from someone who knows what they are talking about.
 

bikenweed

Turbo Monkey
Oct 21, 2004
2,432
0
Los Osos
Yeah. That and go out for long rides on your DH bike. Do a couple 10-15 mile rides a week, and your endurance will improve rapidly, along with your bike handling skill. Bring some water, too.
 

SuboptimusPrime

Turbo Monkey
Aug 18, 2005
1,658
1,633
NorCack
Along these same lines, when I DH I feel like I'm held back primarily by forearm pump. I know bike setup can make a difference, but I feel like I'm reasonably on top of that. I am not in a place where I can ride DH every weekend...are there any secrets people have to keep their forearms in shape or to train them to prevent armpump?
 

Lex

Monkey
Dec 6, 2001
594
0
Massachusetts
Transcend said:
Run and ride, a lot. Do 2 days at bromont every weekend. Changes will happen quickly.
I agree about riding a lot but I was in my best shape ever while spending my whole week on XC or road rides. Downhill was reserved for the weekends. I wasn't even doing epic XC or road rides. Just 1.5 to 2 hours of sustained moderate pace. When you do that two, three or four days a week and then do downhill on the weekends, you can't help but make progress. I just loved riding and wasn't worried about being in great shape, but one can leads to the other.

These days I don't have the time to get that amount of riding in.
 

motomike

Turbo Monkey
Jan 19, 2005
4,584
0
North Carolina
Yes XC is a must. I prefer it on the DH bike. Soooo much fun. And if you primarily ride DH trails, maybe (gasp) trying slowing down a little bit but go the whole distance of the trail. Keep doing that and you'll speed up and be shredding the whole trail in no time. Concentrate on relaxing while riding DH. It makes a huge difference.
 

Motoking16

Monkey
May 16, 2005
209
0
Bend, OR
This is what has helped me:

-Ride XC on a heavier bike than your average XC bike (i use the 4X machine) and PUSH YOURSELF! I try to do this as many times a week as the weather allows me to. (i hate riding in the rain)

-I found a hill by my house that is a 1000' vertical with single track. If i dont ride XC, i sprint up the hill as hard as my legs will let me, staying away from the easy gears. Then i sprint down is fast as i can, for a bit of easy DH practice. I continue this untill i am completley beat, usually around, then i do half of the hill 3-5 times for final endurance.

-I also do any kind of cardio workout in the gym 5-6 times a week for <45 min, with a bit of strength workouts here and there.

-Gym climb 3 times a week for forearm strength and endurance. This really helps.

-Finally, I ride my DH bike as much as possible, which is unfortunatly less than i would like, but there is not much availible where i live without having to drive for a while.

I have noticed a huge difference using this routine, it sounds like a lot, and it is, but i have gotten used to it and everytime i ride some true DH i am glad i do it because i can go faster longer. Going from 10am-8pm with a break for lunch at whistler will be cake. I am a student living on campus and about 20 feet from the gym, so you are more then likely going to have to make adjustments to the number of times you workout, but this is good stuff. If you have any questions or need some clearification on something, just PM me or whatever, i will be more then happy to help.

I hope this helps
 

Motoking16

Monkey
May 16, 2005
209
0
Bend, OR
SuboptimusPrime said:
Along these same lines, when I DH I feel like I'm held back primarily by forearm pump. I know bike setup can make a difference, but I feel like I'm reasonably on top of that. I am not in a place where I can ride DH every weekend...are there any secrets people have to keep their forearms in shape or to train them to prevent armpump?

I have never heard of bike setup causing arm pump, other then your levers being too high or too low, but you should notice that pretty quick. I come from strong moto racing background where arm pump is a huge issue. You are more then likely gripping the bars too tight in fear of the bars flopping out of your hands. or your gloves are too tight around your wrist. concentrate on a lighter grip and huse your legs for control, and make sure nothing is cutting off the circulation to your arms. Also, climbing has helped a lot! its a fun activity and after a month of it, i have noticed a big difference in the way my arms feel after a ride. Armpump is no longer in issue with me.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
Motoking16 said:
I have never heard of bike setup causing arm pump, other then your levers being too high or too low, but you should notice that pretty quick. I come from strong moto racing background where arm pump is a huge issue. You are more then likely gripping the bars too tight in fear of the bars flopping out of your hands. or your gloves are too tight around your wrist. concentrate on a lighter grip and huse your legs for control, and make sure nothing is cutting off the circulation to your arms. Also, climbing has helped a lot! its a fun activity and after a month of it, i have noticed a big difference in the way my arms feel after a ride. Armpump is no longer in issue with me.
Bike setup can mke a huge difference. Anything from lever position, top tube length, bar sweep, bar height, stem length etc. If the stem is too long you lean forward too much and you will get arm pump much easier. Same goes for the levers being too high or too low or the bars having too much sweep.

Some people are also just more genetically pre-disposed to getting it.
 

JRogers

talks too much
Mar 19, 2002
3,785
1
Claremont, CA
Do you have a road or xc bike? Longer rides are really the only way to do it if you have a real aversion to running Getting those in on the DH bike could be helpful, but I find that I can't really keep a good pace with a 40-something pound bike, big tires an 9.5 inches of travel. Besides, a shorter travel bike makes flatter trails just more fun. Long-ish moderate pace rides where you are keeping up a good pace will build up your fitness.
 

biker3

Turbo Monkey
Yeah Dan, some of the best advice I've recieved is do FULL runs always. Don't stop in the middle of your runs if you bobble or whatever. This trains you to finish out and make up for what you've lost etc. Also it keeps you on it and focused on making it to the bottem cleany as possible.
 

sayndesyn

Turbo Monkey
Variety helps alot to keep you in shape and well rounded. I will try to go dirtbiking for 2 hours in the morning, then go dh'ing (pushing up the mountain, not shuttling) for 3 hours in the afternoon, then go dirtjumping for a couple of hours in the evening and do some hill sprints once you are already tired. Then after dinner lift upper body and do situps. You shouldn't have to workout your legs if you are riding hard enough. The best and hardest thing is to not give yourself too many breaks while you are training. Train like you want to race... Most of the work for the race season needs to get done over the winter. Spinning on a cardio machine bores the hell out of me, but it has to be done. Skiing is great cross training because it works on your legs like mad, the speeds are even higher and the air is even bigger...
 

Pip3r

Turbo Monkey
Nov 20, 2001
1,112
0
Foxboro MA
just force yourself to start doing full runs on courses without stopping, which unfortunantly can be real tough especially at local races with slow people getting in the way.
Its a gambling game though, dont want to tire yourself out but you also want to feel what its like to do a whole run on a course. I usually do 2 or 3 full runs on a saturday practice, then take a warmup on race day then do a full on 'race style' run and if im happy with it, leave it as is and then just do it again for the race.

Its wierd for me, I can go out and ride pretty much full out on a road bike for an hour yet i can barley run for 5min... who knows.
 

coma13

Turbo Monkey
Feb 14, 2006
1,082
0
Sit on your computer, eat chex party mix, and drink coke.... oh wait, that's just what I'm doing right now...........
 

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,647
1,116
NORCAL is the hizzle
Wear lycra on your next shuttle ride. You'll get super fit being chased by your former friends.

Seriously, if you want to build endurance for DH races, you need to train specifically to maintain a very high intensity for the relatively shorter times of your typical DH race. Riding XC or road will be better than nothing and should probably be part of your program, but I also suggest you learn how to do interval training, where you do a series of repeated near-max efforts for periods roughly as long as your usual races. Going out and riding relatively low intensity for 5 hours will not give you the same endurance you need to go all out for 5 minutes.

You can also combine the two: Do intervals of high v. low intensity when out on long XC or road rides.
 

Cant Climb

Turbo Monkey
May 9, 2004
2,683
10
Alot of good ideas posted above.....

Take the ones you like, make a plan that is Doable and then
stick to it......there is no one thing that is going to make you have
super DH endurance. Start with a doable plan then add and vary it over time when you see whats working and what you can tolerate mentally and physically...
 

coma13

Turbo Monkey
Feb 14, 2006
1,082
0
OGRipper said:
Wear lycra on your next shuttle ride. You'll get super fit being chased by your former friends.

Seriously, if you want to build endurance for DH races, you need to train specifically to maintain a very high intensity for the relatively shorter times of your typical DH race. Riding XC or road will be better than nothing and should probably be part of your program, but I also suggest you learn how to do interval training, where you do a series of repeated near-max efforts for periods roughly as long as your usual races. Going out and riding relatively low intensity for 5 hours will not give you the same endurance you need to go all out for 5 minutes.

You can also combine the two: Do intervals of high v. low intensity when out on long XC or road rides.
On that note, most stationary bikes in gyms, etc, have interval programs... They are pretty much ideal for the type of energy you're exerting on a DH course.
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
20,134
7,680
Transylvania 90210
cross train. do physical activities that work your legs in a different way. try running, or playing football or soccer, maybe swimming. realize that you have two classes of muscles. the ones that you depend on to DH, and the ones that you don't. if all you do is work you DH muscles, then you will end up with constantly tired DH muscles from overworking them in the same repeated movements. you need to shock those muscles by working them out and showing them variety. as for the second class of muscles, you need to work them because they help the primary class. many people discount the value of the helper muscles. you may not feel the burn in your biceps or your lats the way you do in your thighs and forearms, but you are still using those muscles.

do cardio, but don't think of it as the only answer. it will help. but don't forget to lift. strength training is super important and will help fight fatigue. i recently started lifting again. in three weeks, i have been able to feel a huge difference in my riding. my new training involves no cardio element other than my regular saturday rides.
 

Nagaredama

Turbo Monkey
Nov 15, 2004
1,596
2
Manhattan Beach, CA USA
rockymt21 said:
I don't want to be one of the guys that could use a break half way down the course anymore. Or the ones that stop after each section. How do you guys build up endurance for the whole race run? I don't want answers from people that "heard this, or heard that" I want some advice from someone who knows what they are talking about.
Intervals...only real way to build your endurance without trimming your muscle mass and losing your explosive strength. It will also help you lose weight too.

Start with 20 seconds on 10 seconds off for 8 rounds. If by number 3 you aren't out of breath you are in way better shape than you say or not going hard enough.

http://www.crossfit.com
 

ncg53

Chimp
Oct 31, 2005
10
0
Anyone use stairsteppers in the gym? It seems like the motion of a stair stepper is closer to standing mashing on a DH run(i usually pedal standing on DH unless its a nice smooth section) Was thinking that a stair stepper may actually work those DH specific muscles more-so than a gym bike(where you sit down). Any thoughts on this?
Nick
 

WarEagle2K

Chimp
Feb 28, 2005
92
0
Tucson, AZ
Transcend said:
Run and ride, a lot. Do 2 days at bromont every weekend. Changes will happen quickly.
When I was preparing for the SOC XC ride, I ran a lot too which I think helped a lot. I had a couple of training partners, and the last couple of months before the race, we were riding 2hr 50min - 3:00 hour training rides. The SOC ride was approx 2hrs. The longer training rides seemed to put me in a better place than I was in last year for the race. One other thing, stay consistent on your training. If I would take more than 3 days off, it felt like I had lost everything I had gained the week before. Time on the bike is what helped me the most.
 

WarEagle2K

Chimp
Feb 28, 2005
92
0
Tucson, AZ
stoney98 said:
What I used to do and worked well was slightly uphill wind sprints.
Find a standard city block w/ a vey slight slope. From a stop, sprint the block. Ride around the block for recovery. immedinately do when you turnt he corner. You will get 20 sec on, 2 min off.
This gives you low speed burst, and will push you lactic acid threshold.

Remember this one piece of advice from Steve Fontaine, US Olympic runner, and one of tehe greatest runners of all time:
"There are many people on this field that are better athletes than I am. The difference between me and them is that I can take more pain."

Pain (lactic acid/lung burn) is mental. Push through it, get better. Also, stop shuttling your DH bike, ride bake up the fire road. That will give you power/strength/endurance.
I am not a grammar nazi, but it is Steve Prefontaine...I only say that so if people are so inclined, they can google him and get the whole story. There was an article in Runner magazine 2 months ago about him, and I loved the quote about I can take more pain. His story is amazing and is worth looking up.
 

Spunger

Git yer dumb questions here
Feb 19, 2003
2,257
0
805
stoney98 said:
Also, stop shuttling your DH bike, ride bake up the fire road. That will give you power/strength/endurance.
Man that'd be tuff, our "shuttle road" is 7 miles long! But if you can manage it then I'd say go for it. But that's hard though.

The sprinting deal works excellent. I found myself in the best shape though doing the XC rides when I was younger. When I could pedal the whole way and not be tired it was amazing. But it did take some time to get to that point (2-3 months 3-4 times a week).

It's like when I ran track.......I ran the 400 and 800 races. My training consisted of doing 2 miles around the track, every other lap walking then sprinting for as far as I could. Then 3 days a week we'd do long runs, maybe 4-6 miles at a jogging pace, but it'd be long. I know I picked up endurance for the shorter races because my times started dropping alot. I think when I started my best in the 400 was 1:12 and the 800 was 2:24 (something close to that :)) and by the time I was at the end of the year training and racing I was down in the 1:04 and 2:12 in the 400/800. It's still not fast enough to be 1st place or anything but in a 6 month time training like that to shave off 8-12 seconds is great. The clock doesn't lie :)

But that's how you build endurance, is you do longer paced activities. Running/swimming whatever fits your fun level. Sprints and such help with DH because you do pedal some, but you're more about hitting the turn and sprinting out, quick bursts of speed as most of the time you're holding on and looking ahead.
 

stephanie

Monkey
Dec 7, 2005
308
0
East County via East Coast
I ride my dh bike as much as possible. Stand up and pedal whenever you can. Yes, it'll be hard and/or impossible to make some climbs, but on the gradual inclines, it will get better. Sprint on your dh bike for varying distances (or make the distances progressively longer). DH races tend to straddle that line between anaerobic lactic acid burnout and aerobic exercise.
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
what everybody else said. intervals and long-distance cross training (either road or xc). do all-out sprints for 10-20sec in the midst of your rides, or see how fast you can climb hills.

as for the total endurance, lift weights. concentrate on higher reps and less weight, working the same muscle groups that you'd use on a DH bike (chest, shoulders, tricepts, bicepts and back).

(and yes, all of this extensive training knowledge led me to a mid-pack expert finish!! SWEET! :oink:)
 

dG video

I blew a mod to get this title
Feb 25, 2004
2,133
0
vermont
Thanks for all the reply's guys!

I don't get arm pump, nor tired legs, its just an overall I need to stop kind of feel. Doing complete runs is a very good idea, never actually tried. When we ride local trails we don't shuttle, push our bikes up with is good on the calves. I think I will see imporvement from last season with all of this pre-season riding I have been doing. Ive already lost 15lbs and its still going good so watch out homies.
 

bballe336

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2005
1,757
0
MA
Run up a bunch of stairs. I try and do it everyday after school. From first floor to third at least 3 or 4 times. If people from school laugh at you well then just suck it up. And depending how far away from your school you are you can try walking home and jogging parts of it. I live 4 miles from my school and walk home instead of taking a bus everyday.
 

dG video

I blew a mod to get this title
Feb 25, 2004
2,133
0
vermont
Walking to school would take easily an hour.....

I can't stand running anyway, call me fat but I would much rather bust my ass on a bike.
 

-dustin

boring
Jun 10, 2002
7,155
1
austin
running sucks. a lot. a whole lot. god i hate running. but it works. i find running to be much more tolerable when i run on trails that i normally ride.
 

bballe336

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2005
1,757
0
MA
rockymt21 said:
Walking to school would take easily an hour.....

I can't stand running anyway, call me fat but I would much rather bust my ass on a bike.
Considering the average person walks 4MPH maybe. It takes me 35 minutes but is time well spent. I get to listen to music and be outside.
 

trumbullrider

Monkey
Dec 12, 2005
181
0
CT
At platty I felt I would be extremly tired after the first pedaling section in practise, but during my race run i didn't even notice it. Your adrenaline helps alot in race runs.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,921
borcester rhymes
intervals or fartleks are the best way to build lactic acid recovery and o2 max

fartleks are where you sprint for a given distance, slow down without stopping, sprint, slow, sprint, for an extended period of time. i'm not sure if they're any different than intervals, but if you want to be able to sprint for longer that the best way.
 

sharkdh

Monkey
Feb 12, 2006
127
0
in the area
stop riding with your friends.
dicking around out there.

ride alone on your DH bike for 3hour rides.
climb hills on the thing.
and
ride your XC bike for 40 mile rides.
7days a week.
go home and eat, sleep HARD and REPEAT.

do it while you can.
once you get older and have to work 50 hour workweeks
if you dont have this STRONG ENDURANCE BASE

y-o-u a-r-e d-o-n-e !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Sep 29, 2004
280
0
Just hit the weightroom, not enough mtbers do. Some sqauts would really increase your strength, and thus endurance. Some power shrugs and lat pulls will strengthen ur back and shoulders and will nearly do away with the morning-after-ride back pain. Don't be too concerned with losing weight, as those pounds will make ur ride alot smoother; just turn those pounds into muscle and you'll be alot less tired and alot less sore...

Besides some athletisism could only make you a better rider in the end.