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know any short travel thru-axle bikes?

auntie bob

auntie bob

Chimp
Jan 28, 2006
58
0
Short travel meaning less than or equal to 6".

I know of one for sure, the Cannondale prophet at 5.5". Available as frame only for something like $1200. Sounds nice, but they smooth their welds? It's gotta get better than this.

The pictures promoting maxle at interbike 2006 included a short travel thru axle bike. XC. Anyone know what this bike is?
 
stgil888

stgil888

Monkey
Jun 16, 2004
484
0
Malibu, CA
I'm no Cannondale dealer, but what's wrong with the Prophet. It's supposed to be a great bike. Are you trying to find a T/A short-travel frame so you can use a wheel you already own? For additional stiffness? My guess is that most short travel frames use light enough tubing that the additional stiffness of a through axle is negated.
 
B

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,160
2
california
auntie bob said:
Short travel meaning less than or equal to 6".

I know of one for sure, the Cannondale prophet at 5.5". Available as frame only for something like $1200. Sounds nice, but they smooth their welds? It's gotta get better than this.
Click to expand...
Three year warranty...I've yet to see a broken MX.
 
joelsman

joelsman

Turbo Monkey
Feb 1, 2002
1,369
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B'ham
the sinister splinter was 12mm, they stopped making them though.

clif cat has an mx6 with a through axle, allen @dropnzone.com had one.
 
spacemanspiff06

spacemanspiff06

Monkey
May 12, 2005
977
0
roanoke va
scott YZ limited?
don't let that be the deciding factor for geting a bike. pick the one you want and run a 9mm bolt-on hub. (almost any shimano hub will convert, so if you buy a complete you might not have th get a new rear wheel.)
 
T

TheMontashu

Pourly Tatteued Jeu
Mar 15, 2004
5,549
0
I'm homeless
auntie bob said:
Short travel meaning less than or equal to 6".

I know of one for sure, the Cannondale prophet at 5.5". Available as frame only for something like $1200. Sounds nice, but they smooth their welds? It's gotta get better than this.

The pictures promoting maxle at interbike 2006 included a short travel thru axle bike. XC. Anyone know what this bike is?
Click to expand...
The welds are hand sanded then the frame is heat treated turning the weld into normal metal, so on a molecular level there are no welds on that frame
 
vitox

vitox

Turbo Monkey
Sep 23, 2001
2,936
1
Santiago du Chili
TheMontashu said:
The welds are hand sanded then the frame is heat treated turning the weld into normal metal, so on a molecular level there are no welds on that frame
Click to expand...

does cannondale actually claim that?


i mean, its pretty bold
 
maxyedor

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
5,496
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TheMontashu said:
The welds are hand sanded then the frame is heat treated turning the weld into normal metal, so on a molecular level there are no welds on that frame
Click to expand...
Have you ever worked with metal? There is no way Cannondale hand sands those welds, rough-cut with an angle grinder and finished by hand mabye. It's true that a good weld is stronger than the metal being welded was, but that's because the weld is thicker than the metal is, and thus stronger, when you grind it away it can only be as strong as the metal, and on a less than perfect weld it will be weaker. Not a Cannondale bash here but bikes in general don't have very good welds. Some are better than others, I would wager to say that almost every weld on every bike on the maket would fail an x-ray inspection. The welds are loades with inclusions, pits, and slag. They are still plenty strong for the task they are needed for, but for perfect welds you have to go to the airplane, and oil industry where welders get $200-$300/ hour.


Yeti has been talking about a thru-axel 575 in the near future.
 
Ian F

Ian F

Turbo Monkey
Sep 8, 2001
1,016
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Philadelphia area
Old Lawwill DH-4's and DH-6's have 12mm thru axles.... but as they haven't been in produced in 8 yeears, I suppose they don't count... :o:
 
sanjuro

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
TheMontashu said:
The welds are hand sanded then the frame is heat treated turning the weld into normal metal, so on a molecular level there are no welds on that frame
Click to expand...
I'm embarrassed to know you...

I believe the finishing pre-heat treating is a huge advantage, but no welds?

I want everyone to know that TheMontashu did not hear that from me.
 
SilentJ

SilentJ

trail builder
Jun 17, 2002
1,312
0
Calgary AB
maxyedor said:
.......There is no way Cannondale hand sands those welds, rough-cut with an angle grinder and finished by hand mabye. It's true that a good weld is stronger than the metal being welded was, but that's because the weld is thicker than the metal is, and thus stronger, when you grind it away it can only be as strong as the metal, and on a less than perfect weld it will be weaker. Not a Cannondale bash here but bikes in general don't have very good welds. .......
Click to expand...

I seem to recall seeing an article where someone had toured the Cannondale manufacturing facility a couple years ago....I vaguely remember them writing that initially the frames are welded all normal-like. i.e. the typical stack of dimes type welds that are common on Al frames. Then they are "finish" welded to make the weld a lot smoother and to create the concave shape of the weld which also helps to eliminate any stress risers. Lastly they're "touched up" by hand or by dremel or whatever (I cant remember) to make them smoother.

I dunno, it seems to me that the welds on the Cannondales are much wider than even the welds that were on my LeToy. It would mean a retardo thick initial weld bead if it were only welded once then ground down.

It would definitely be interesting to tour their facility.
 
auntie bob

auntie bob

Chimp
Jan 28, 2006
58
0
stgil888 said:
I'm no Cannondale dealer, but what's wrong with the Prophet?
Are you trying to find a T/A short-travel frame so you can use a wheel you already own? For additional stiffness? My guess is that most short travel frames use light enough tubing that the additional stiffness of a through axle is negated.
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Well, for one thing, there isn't anything really wrong with the prophet. I merely wanted to know what was out there. Thanks for all the responses guys.

And yes, I am indeed trying to use a wheel I own. I recently acquired one of the very first hadleys, built into a mavic 321. I'm going to build a bike around it eventually. I figured since I can I may as well look into taking advantage of the fact that I can convert my hub to a 12mm.

I am interested in the stiffness, yes, but also the size of the bearings. I mean, how many of you would be willing to go back to a qr for your fork? I think the only reason thru-axles aren't more common in the rear is affordability and market stuff.

I didn't mean to stir up a cannondale debate, perhaps I should have left that out. I do know this though: OK, everybody who makes bicycle frames out of aluminum heat-treats at least once. There's nothing magical about it, it's just to keep the welded areas from cracking. Heat treating does not make the weld dissapear.
As far as I can tell the only reason cannondale rewelds their welds is to make them look better. I don't believe there's any way you can argue this makes the weld stronger. In fact, I suspect they cut costs by not having to worry so much about the perceivable quality of the initial weld and going back to smooth the whole thing out.
But back to looks it does sort of make their bikes stand out right? Cannondale loves to be different. Know what it reminds me of though? The old fillet-ed schwinn varsity.
 
S

spinner

Monkey
Jun 15, 2006
111
0
Australia
Taken from: http://www.manufacturingcenter.com/tooling/archives/0602/0602welding.asp

Cannondale also uses a different welding technique than other bike manufacturers. “Instead of the traditional stacked-dime TIG weld bead appearance and welding the joint in a single pass, we break the rules a little bit by making two passes,” says Crawford. “With our technique, the first pass ensures complete penetration. We then make a second pass that smoothes the weld bead to the point where the joint looks like it was molded.” Because the cosmetic second takes the crown off the weld, operators continue to add filler wire to maintain throat thickness.

“Our welding method improves fatigue life,” states Pahl. “Our welding method creates a smooth transition from the weld joint to the rest of the tube, and this helps prevent stress risers. Stress risers occur at the outer edge of an unfinished weld where the weld abruptly ends. At that point, the tube wall suddenly gets thinner, so it’s more prone to the accumulated stress that builds up with riding. Our technique tapers the walls more gradually, which disperses the stress over a wider area. As a result, our frames last longer.” It also allows Cannondale to use thinner wall tubes for a lighter frame.
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Sounds good in theory , but as seen in the pic posted earlier in this thread , the frames will still break at the toe of the weld. The same point where any loads will reach a point where flex is impossible , at the start of the radius of the welded area. Increasing the wall thickness in these areas would reduce the chance of cracking / breaking , but that would add weight. (probably less weight than all that extra weld metal :confused: )

I read somewhere else that Cannondale frames go through a two stage heat treatment process to normalise the larger than normal heat affected zones caused by so much heat generated by those masive welds. Sounds to me like they are chasing their tail. All that effort and for what , a slightly lighter frame set with very marginal strength?
 
Superdeft

Superdeft

Monkey
Dec 4, 2003
863
0
East Coast
Anyone who has added a little fillet to a high-stress joint in an FEA program can see why the cannondale technique works so well. It can really make the stress distributions smooth out nicely, allowing one to use lighter tubes and such. There's definitely more than one way to skin a cat though, this is just one way.

Back on topic: I would love to see more bikes with the Maxle standard. It's MUCH faster than regular QR and much more stiff.
 
auntie bob

auntie bob

Chimp
Jan 28, 2006
58
0
So does anybody have any dirt on the new Splinter? I can't find anything.

The old one looked really interesting!
 
SuspectDevice

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
4,165
372
Roanoke, VA
auntie bob said:
So does anybody have any dirt on the new Splinter? I can't find anything.

The old one looked really interesting!
Click to expand...
There will at least be an extremely lightweight slopestyle-type simple single pivot frame. The one proto that is out there so far is 7 pounds with shock in a 6" variant. Pictures of this early proto are on the Ride-this blog.


There will be more of these bikes god knows when, but the geometry on them will be very, very fun.

There will also be a bike that utilizes a new suspension concept, and will be more of a heavy duty trail/all mountain bike.
 
maxyedor

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
5,496
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In the bathroom, fighting a battle
SilentJ said:
I seem to recall seeing an article where someone had toured the Cannondale manufacturing facility a couple years ago....I vaguely remember them writing that initially the frames are welded all normal-like. i.e. the typical stack of dimes type welds that are common on Al frames. Then they are "finish" welded to make the weld a lot smoother and to create the concave shape of the weld which also helps to eliminate any stress risers. Lastly they're "touched up" by hand or by dremel or whatever (I cant remember) to make them smoother.
Click to expand...
It is possible that they weld it then they flood the weld area with a hi-flow braze of some sort. Tis would explain the extra thick beads. However I can't see any real advantage to this, it in fact it let them run thinner lighter tubes, you would expect this process to be used in the aircraft industry, but it's not. A good rule to follow is if it's used for oil pipes, or airplanes it's the best there is.
 
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