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24 inches of love

dexter

Turbo Monkey
Sep 23, 2001
3,053
99
Boise, Idaho
you know this damn thread and the fact that our new skate park is so damn tight in the bowl and pretty much everywhere makes me want a 24 inch bike just for park. anyone wanna give me one? i promise to be good to it
 

Mr Tiles

I'm a beer snob
Nov 10, 2003
3,469
0
L-town ya'll
bwhahahaha, you remember dissin' on me for contemplating switchin' to the li'l bike back in da day Dex? I must admit my DNA was up there with my all time favorites...
 

don

Turbo Monkey
Nov 8, 2001
1,319
0
Rumson, NJ
you know this damn thread and the fact that our new skate park is so damn tight in the bowl and pretty much everywhere makes me want a 24 inch bike just for park. anyone wanna give me one? i promise to be good to it
Dexter - add street and dirt jumps to your first sentence. 24's work real good on them as well.

Call up Lee, Landon, or Brad and get a setup - all you would have to do is swap the frame, rims and tires.
 

scurban

Turbo Monkey
Jul 11, 2004
1,052
0
SC
I came across this photo on some NYC BMX blog last night. Looks like you got your Fall Guy a Front row seat Vas.

 

dexter

Turbo Monkey
Sep 23, 2001
3,053
99
Boise, Idaho
meh i tried running 24's for 2 months and just couldnt handel riding long distances and street with them. i loved the 24's in the park, but they just didnt feel right dirt jumping (could have been the frame, proto type of the yeti hardtail) an driding street was a pita, every small bump felt so much bigger and it seemed as if i was constantly pedaling. but again it totally could have been the bike set up, that thing had some wicked cracked out geometry especially after i broke the rear end a few times and it was re welded
 

Mr Tiles

I'm a beer snob
Nov 10, 2003
3,469
0
L-town ya'll
I've not experienced this on the USB where I did experience exactly what you speak of on other frames not so suited for 24s...fwiw...
 

scurban

Turbo Monkey
Jul 11, 2004
1,052
0
SC
meh i tried running 24's for 2 months and just couldnt handel riding long distances and street with them. i loved the 24's in the park, but they just didnt feel right dirt jumping (could have been the frame, proto type of the yeti hardtail) an driding street was a pita, every small bump felt so much bigger and it seemed as if i was constantly pedaling. but again it totally could have been the bike set up, that thing had some wicked cracked out geometry especially after i broke the rear end a few times and it was re welded
My Fall guy rides Smooth. It could be the Yeti frame. Was it Cromo? that could make a difference.

24" wheels and a suspension fork are like butter on street.
 

Evil4bc

Turbo Monkey
Jun 17, 2005
1,080
1
Nor-Cal
meh i tried running 24's for 2 months and just couldnt handel riding long distances and street with them. i loved the 24's in the park, but they just didnt feel right dirt jumping (could have been the frame, proto type of the yeti hardtail) an driding street was a pita, every small bump felt so much bigger and it seemed as if i was constantly pedaling. but again it totally could have been the bike set up, that thing had some wicked cracked out geometry especially after i broke the rear end a few times and it was re welded
Sounds like low b/b and slack HA .. that always makes for a slow as POO feeling bike !

check your PM's
 

kenjikuro

Chimp
Jan 14, 2006
95
0
i got some question. anyone got any alternative for short suspension fork?

anyone has any idea how to make a fox vanilla down to 80mm short? =X
 

Cru Jones

Turbo Monkey
Sep 2, 2006
3,025
2
Hell Track
Sounds like low b/b and slack HA .. that always makes for a slow as POO feeling bike !

check your PM's
Brad (and/or Landon), what are your thoughts on BB height? I know you keep em pretty low. Ever thought of a higher BB like a Dobermann? Little above the axle line, just like a BMX. Should help make tables and turndowns a breeze. And, who needs the stability of a lower BB? We're not trying to race these things or win any wheely contests. I think the higher BB has been overlooked... the bigger wheels already help the stability and higher a BB would give some pop and trick-ability. Thoughts?
 

Evil4bc

Turbo Monkey
Jun 17, 2005
1,080
1
Nor-Cal
Brad (and/or Landon), what are your thoughts on BB height? I know you keep em pretty low. Ever thought of a higher BB like a Dobermann? Little above the axle line, just like a BMX. Should help make tables and turndowns a breeze. And, who needs the stability of a lower BB? We're not trying to race these things or win any wheely contests. I think the higher BB has been overlooked... the bigger wheels already help the stability and higher a BB would give some pop and trick-ability. Thoughts?
Well funny you should mention that , Landon and I both rode the same 24" bike for a few years .. the NAMAIKI DSY( the bike that started it all and influnced the Tonic fab and many others ) this was a frame I designed with imput from Philip Lord when I was 24 and had produced at Kinesis wear Landon jsut happened to be working at the time .

This bike had a very high B/B around 12.5 to 13" with a 4.5 to 5in travel fork . The bike was great for deep woods stuff as it bunnyhoped like no other .. seriously this bike was soo much fun to jsut gap over waist high logs :happydance: made me feel like I was in a early 80's Klein ad !

But the drawback is with such a high B/B the bike is very unstable at low speeds , this sorta make rideing tranny and low speed urban stuff almost impossible .
The bike was great as a all mountain hartail , doing runs down MT. Ashland I could keep up with the guys on the bigger DH bikes , and at SeaOtter for 5 years straight I got top 10 in hardtail DH , even beating the business manger from Evil bikes John P on the same corse Imperial VS Namaiki and I beat him by 3 sec .. and he trains for races like this ... DW also commented that the Namaiki was the most unstable bike he ever rode ... go figure .
 

Landon

Monkey
Oct 20, 2004
274
0
Stoked, Boxxer: Really nice looking builds! I hope the bikes work out for you folks.

CMC: No one in Austin or Texas for that matter has a Fall Guy to my knowledge. That said, if you ride a 21" BMX you'll probably feel pretty much at home on a Fall Guy.

Cru Jones: I think I'm following your logic. Instead of lowering the top tube, you are suggesting raising the BB to create more clearance for tables and turn-downs.
This is big difference between a Black Market and a Fall Guy. Both bikes have the same effective BB height, but the BM has it's BB one inch (or so) below the axles where as the FG's BB is level with the axles. This means, for the same fork and HT lengths, the FG's BB is one inch closer to the top of the HT and thus has more clearence for the tricks you mentioned. The BB height difference also means that the vertical distance between the bars and the BB is one inch less on a FG, meaning you can use a 1" taller bar on a FG (even more clearence) and maintain the same BB/Bar height relationship.

I'd like to point out that nothing is going to make doing tables or turndowns on these bikes, or any mountain bike style bike a "breeze." For tables, getting both knees over the top tube is tough, and raising the BB an inch or so isn't really going to get enough clearance to make this easy. I'm generally stoked when I'm pushing my topside knee into the side of my top tube near the HT for tables. For turndowns...untill you have them on "lock-down" on a 20" I would not suggest trying them on any mountain bike style bike.

This is a photo of Guy doing a look-back, but it gives you sense of how little clearence even a bike with really good clearence has. Yeah, you can ride 3" bars and rise stems for more clearance, but how much do you want to compromise your bike to be able to do one trick?

I feel like the BB height on the FG is about as high as I'd want it. I've had a couple of the high BB bikes over the years (the Namaiki, and the BMW Park Bike) and wasn't satisfied. If you are into slow-speed trials type riding I think it's a good way to go. Fortunately, those bikes did put the idea that that a small bike with a suspension fork can be pretty fun in motion for me.
 

don

Turbo Monkey
Nov 8, 2001
1,319
0
Rumson, NJ
Interesting topic about BB axle postion. It makes me wonder if it should be measured in drop or rise relating to the axles rather than the actual height. I know some custom frame builders used to measure as drop from axle.

I think the 12.5" ish BB height on my Molly is perfect. I would not like it any lower and higher would give more clearance as mentioned but would turn it too squirelly.

Like Landon said, turndowns on a mtb style bike is tough. I used to have them dialed on a 20" BITD and could do them into foam easily on a cruiser not that long ago. I've tried them on the Molly into foam and can come close but I do get caught up a bit in the seat area with my lower leg.

Interesting about Guy's photo is that it the wider bars look to have more clearance on the lookback. If his hands were closer in they would be hitting his thigh. Not that I'm going w/ 32" bars but the next set I get will be a 2.75" rise and 26" width. I'd like to see how that affects turndown foampit attempts.
 

Cru Jones

Turbo Monkey
Sep 2, 2006
3,025
2
Hell Track
Interesting stuff. Actually, I was thinking about the BB height more in terms of leverage on the rear axle, but clearance is also an issue that a higher BB would help (allowing a shorter seat tube and higher rise on the bars, like you mentioned). I remember reading somewhere about the evolution in BB height on BMXs. Used to be, east coast high (12 or higher), west coast low (11ish) (but, note that is still an inch above the axle line). Nowadays, 11.8 seems to be pretty popular. The argument for the higher BB was that it helped with anything that involved moving the rear of the bike sideways in the air (tables, turndowns, spinning), but at the cost of stability. So, my thinking is, 24s and 26s are inherently more stable (than 20s) because of the bigger wheels and slack HT angles. So, why not have a higher BB? It should be awesome for jumping, spinning, and doing tricks... and it should still be more stable than a 20.

Anyway, I'm going to try it. 13.8 BB height on 26s. It might be an expensive experiment gone wrong, but I'll try to give honest feedback about it. BTW, I already get flat tables on a 26, and I'm really close to turndowns, just have the bar clearance issues. Also, I turndown to the right, so I'm thinking about moving my rear brake lever over to the left to get it out of the way. Or, maybe I should do the super wide bars??? Haha, nah, that can be Guy's thing.
 

dexter

Turbo Monkey
Sep 23, 2001
3,053
99
Boise, Idaho
well if everything goes accordint to plan I will be rolling a deathmobile in the next week or so, a secret agent (26) in a few weeks and a proto dh/freeride frame and a slopestyle proto before the snow melts. super pumped to be riding for nemesis. r9 and dna are for sale CHEAP if anyone wants em. and grom-dom what do you mean? in that pic posted a while ago? if so yes. nickname i picked up sometime last year. happy thanksgiving alll
 
Feb 4, 2002
8
0
Richland, WA >:-P
well if everything goes accordint to plan I will be rolling a deathmobile in the next week or so, a secret agent (26) in a few weeks and a proto dh/freeride frame and a slopestyle proto before the snow melts. super pumped to be riding for nemesis. r9 and dna are for sale CHEAP if anyone wants em. and grom-dom what do you mean? in that pic posted a while ago? if so yes. nickname i picked up sometime last year. happy thanksgiving alll
How cheap we talkin' dex?
 

ballturret17

Chimp
Dec 15, 2005
42
0
ok, got a question for the general lee (or other bmx cruiser) owners. Which fork will fit a 2.4 holy roller? I currently have one instaled on a stock dk 24" fork (with about 1/2" ground out of the fork on each side, sketch eh?) Im reluctant to buy any other bmx type 24" fork, for fear of lack of clearence. I need something with 14mm drops. k-rads dont cut it.
 

grom-dom

Turbo Monkey
Jun 27, 2006
1,140
0
Chapel Thrill
oh ok jw. you know who im talking about though right? im gettinga deathmobile 24 too!!!! and i want to really want to get my hands on that nempro proto slopestyle rig. dayum. hey dex, you going to wintersplinter this year?
 

Evil4bc

Turbo Monkey
Jun 17, 2005
1,080
1
Nor-Cal
oh ok jw. you know who im talking about though right? im gettinga deathmobile 24 too!!!! and i want to really want to get my hands on that nempro proto slopestyle rig. dayum. hey dex, you going to wintersplinter this year?
YES it's good to see the new team shapeing up nicely :biggrin:
I took a few days off from the shameless self promotion that is the internet message board scean to enjoy all things family .... jeez this post is starting to sound like one of Landon's web updates for the tonic page .
 

dexter

Turbo Monkey
Sep 23, 2001
3,053
99
Boise, Idaho
grom-dom thats what brad told me the other day SICK. I should be at the wintersplinter depedning on what the doc says about my knee on Tuesday (lets pray its just the change in weather messing with it right now finger crossed)
 

HighonBoost

Chimp
Aug 5, 2006
22
0
British Columbia
Guess you could call this my post review, when usually all the hype and excitement has worn off, paints scratched, and the tires are bald and it's time for something new.
Well my riding season is over, got a full summer on my fall guy. I rode every night for atleast a couple hours, even in the rain. I've progressed so much in such little time, and just had so much fun riding. Although it's -20 C outside with a few feet of snow, I'm still thinkin about ridin next summer! I believe Landon hit the nail on the head with the fall guy, not only with the design, but also with the vibe that goes with the bike, you know what I mean if you ride one :D. Couldn't be happier with my fall guy! :cheers: