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Rotec RL9, PDC 825, or Canfield F1

sbabuser

Turbo Monkey
Dec 22, 2004
1,114
55
Golden, CO
If a 130-pound kid can jump a 270-pound 450 over a 40-50 foot step-up, then I think a 160 lb adult can handle a 45 lb DH bike. Just a hunch.
Yeah, funny how an engine makes a difference in how easy it is to move a motorcycle... :bonk:

And Iridebikes - easy enough to slack the Sunday out, lower the stanchions in the crowns...
Have you ridden one, or are you just basing your worries about headtube angle on previous bikes you've ridden?
 
Sep 17, 2006
226
0
My point wasn't how easy the motorcycle is to move forward, but that you can still whip around 200+ pound bikes without too much trouble. Sure a 60 pound bike will be harder to pedal around but why do so many people react like "OMG your bike is soo heavy" or "dude your bike is a piece of crap if it weighs more than 45 lbs." I would much rather be on a 50 pound DH bike that lets me feel confident while ripping through the gnarliest stuff I can find, rather than be on a 35 pound DH bike littered with carbon fiber, super thin tubing, and a price 1.5 times more than the other bike. Basically the opposite of a weight weenie. The lower maintenance/high performance aspect draws me to the rotec.
 

iridebikes

Monkey
Jan 31, 2004
960
0
seattle
And Iridebikes - easy enough to slack the Sunday out, lower the stanchions in the crowns...
Have you ridden one, or are you just basing your worries about headtube angle on previous bikes you've ridden?
No, I've ridden a sunday. the headangle on my canfield the way I had it setup was about 64'. I liked where it was in most situations. And really, the headangle on the sunday isn't bad. though I know a few tricks i'm going to use to get it just a tad slacker.

It should be good. Just sold my canfield and now I need to work out with Todd at Ironhorse and Simon at Fluidride about getting ahold of the frame that Lars Sternberg is currently riding. All white with red decals. So sick! The Fluidride team bikes should be showing up sometime soon hopefully which will provide the white frame without a home
 

FlipFantasia

Turbo Monkey
Oct 4, 2001
1,663
499
Sea to Sky BC
But its' SOOOO heavy! haha. I know its' not that much heavier than most other frames, just over a pound heavier than the Canfield. But with that in mind, I have two things going against me, one, I don't weigh that much so the bike to rider weight ratio makes a bigger difference, and two, I'm not that strong... So I like a light bike. I've seen a 36 pound Intense Socom, and it makes me really jelouse. I'm hoping my Sunday this year will be in the 37-38 pound range.

My bike this year was only 39 pounds, but even then I could see different sections where I wish the bike was lighter or I was stronger... Mostly the stronger part, because a 39 pound dh bike isn't bad at all!
Jeff's right, you don't notice the weight on the rl9 at all.....sully was kind enough to let me rip one for a day on whistler during crankworx and I was very VERY impressed. It rides so light that I couldn't beleive that it was as heavy as it was. It loves to be popped off the smallest of lips and I found myself doubling up every little ripple in the trail I could, it's super snappy and fun. On top of that it sticks to the ground like glue (when you don't want to be popping off stuff) and their was pretty much zero feedback at the pedals when the suspension was cycling in the rought stuff whilst pedalling. It was also super confidence inspiring in the corners, prdictable breaking points in the loose stuff, awesome awesome ride......I was feeling fast this year, and a friend I ride with a lot was usually pretty close behind, he rides an rl9 too.....we got to the bottom after a couple of laps and he commented on how much faster I was riding on the rl9 over my bb7......
......anyway, I can't compare the rl9 with the other bikes you mentioned, but that was my one day experience on one.....oh, and the pesky lightweight brits I rode with all season too didn't seem to mind the weight of the rl9, pintsize indeed! :)
 

auntesther

Monkey
Oct 15, 2001
293
0
Boston, MA
This will be my 3rd season on my F1 and I still love it as much, if not more, as the day I got it.

For the record I have never had a single issue with my frame...I know of only 1 other semi local person near me and I cant recall him every mentioning any issue with cracking links
 

iridebikes

Monkey
Jan 31, 2004
960
0
seattle
Can this be interpreted as Lars is doing something different this year?
No, Lars has been riding a white Sunday frame that he's posted pictures in the DH thread and PNW thread about posting your rides. It's all white with red decals. The frame technically belongs to Todd at Ironhorse, but I'm trying to get my hands on it as soon as the 2007 Fluidride Pro Team bikes show up. Which I believe should be fairly soon, I hope.

He's still riding for Ironhorse for 2007
 
This will be my 3rd season on my F1 and I still love it as much, if not more, as the day I got it.

For the record I have never had a single issue with my frame...I know of only 1 other semi local person near me and I cant recall him every mentioning any issue with cracking links
The only issue i've really heard of with the Canfields was the pully wheel mount bent on some of them due to chain growth tension, but I know that has been adressed with the newer frames, I have a bunch of friends on Canfields, my Brother and I ride Rotecs, both frames seem to be very dependable.
 
The only issue i've really heard of with the Canfields was the pully wheel mount bent on some of them due to chain growth tension,.....
sorry homeboy, you got your facts wrong. the F1 has absolutely no chain growth (well, it's actually about 1mm) while cycling thru its travel. we can set up them up as a SS if we wanted to. the torque on the bolt is from the riders weight and was solved with different bolts since the problematic one was an incorrect spec...

my frame is 2 years old now and never had any issues with it yet. i send it big on a regular basis and have had some pretty bad mishaps also.
PS- that is my crash in the link in the post above and the bike is still rock solid over a year after that. (with plenty more of those in the meantime...)
 

WheelieMan

Monkey
Feb 6, 2003
937
0
kol-uh-RAD-oh
sorry homeboy, you got your facts wrong. the F1 has absolutely no chain growth (well, it's actually about 1mm) while cycling thru its travel. we can set up them up as a SS if we wanted to. the torque on the bolt is from the riders weight and was solved with different bolts since the problematic one was an incorrect spec...

my frame is 2 years old now and never had any issues with it yet. i send it big on a regular basis and have had some pretty bad mishaps also.
PS- that is my crash in the link in the post above and the bike is still rock solid over a year after that. (with plenty more of those in the meantime...)
Oh really...
The Canfield is going to have a lot more than 1mm of chaingrowth. (In this case the chaingrowth is actually going to be negative because the pulley wheel is so high.)
I do not believe that the pulley is placed where it is simply for optimal chain extension; as far as I can tell it must be placed that high in order for the bottom link not to make contact with it during the travel. So good luck running singlespeed without a tensioner!
 

Red Bull

Turbo Monkey
Oct 22, 2004
1,772
0
970
sorry homeboy, you got your facts wrong. the F1 has absolutely no chain growth (well, it's actually about 1mm) while cycling thru its travel. we can set up them up as a SS if we wanted to. the torque on the bolt is from the riders weight and was solved with different bolts since the problematic one was an incorrect spec...

my frame is 2 years old now and never had any issues with it yet. i send it big on a regular basis and have had some pretty bad mishaps also.
PS- that is my crash in the link in the post above and the bike is still rock solid over a year after that. (with plenty more of those in the meantime...)
Uhhhhh, my friend went through like 4 of them. He's done with that bike after all the problems now.
 

GrapeApe79

Monkey
Sep 22, 2005
338
0
Issaquah, WA
It's solid. If any bike can withstand me and a full 3 weeks at Whistler, it deserves R35p3ct. Seriously.
I'll back Secret Squirrel up...he's not a small guy by any means, and he is not exactly easy on bikes. About the weight issue on the Rotec--its really no big deal--I'm only 120# and have a Rotec. The weight doesn't bother me...if anything it helps the bike stick to the ground and track. Its more about how the bike is weighted, and mine is pretty balanced--a little heavier in the rear, so I don't have problems getting the front end up or anything.

But that Canfield looks pretty sweet as well!
 

dropmachine

Turbo Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
2,922
10
Your face.
ITs funny, now people are tlaking like the Rotec weighs 39 pounds for frame only.

Its a 14 pound frame with shock. Its hardly some brutally overbuilt tank that can't be pedalled. Its just a bit more then some of the lighter frames out there.

That said, I'll take performance over light weight any day. ;)
 

ViciousDHer

eBay vigilante
Oct 30, 2003
587
0
Wow, a of of concern about the Rotec's weight. I never weighed Geoff's Rotec frame before building up the bike last winter. It did not seem to be an issue at the time or at all last season. That said, on the way back from some shuttle runs Yesterday I took the bike to the shop and weighed it on a registered scale and it came in at 43.2lbs as shown in picture. It was built without taking weight into consideration but durability and performance were.




06 Rotec RL9 with SS axle
05 888 RC
Gamut P40 Chainguide
ODI Intense Lock-On grips
Answer Pro Taper 2" Riser Bars
Azonic Hubs
Mavic ex721cd Rims
Hussfelt Cranks
X9 Shifter
X9 Derailleur
Shimano HG-73 Chain
Shimano Road Cassette
Magura Gustav Brakes with 210mm Rotors
Custom Ghetto Seat
Thompson Elite Seatpost
Raceface 83x128 BB
Azonic 38t Chainring
Azonic Fusion Pedals
Romic 9.5x3.0 Shock
Kenda 2.5 Nevagal Rear Tire
Kenda 2.7 Nevagal Front Tire
Kenda DH Tubes



So before saying 43.2 lbs is a pig consider how much the bike would weigh if We tried to build it light. As others have said the weight is carried low in the frame and IS NOT an issue.


As far as the Rotec's durability goes 18 races and just over 60 days lift assisted downhilling with at least 30 days at Plattekill in the hand of a top JrX Racer/Rider who loves to go big. The ONLY issues were a bent alum rear axle which We upgrade with a stainless steel one and 2 bent hangers while We were getting chain length figured out. It was a real pleasure not having to touch the bike race weekends so I could concentrate on My racing , I think the only issue was a broken shifter cable on a race morning. The back end and all pivots are as solid as new.

As for performance 9 wins, 16 podiums, Two State Series Championships and third out of 300+ at the US Open- Amateur. For those Who know Us We take racing seriously and Geoff would not be riding a frame that didn't help Him achieve His Goals.
Geoff is proud and very happy to be riding a Rotec RL9 for 2007.

From His mechanics's point of view I am very happy I can concentrate on My own racing again this Year.:banana:
 

BRIANBUELL

Monkey
Nov 17, 2005
500
0
Boulder, Colorado
Here Here!! I to have the same point of view on the subject! I believe my bike weighed in at 44 pounds most of the year! I spent all summer racing 20+ races, hitting up platty, Vernon, Bromont, and whistler along the way! Needless to say, thats a lot of riding and going big! Not too much work needed on the bike, only check ups every now and then! Being regarded as a large man i love how the bike fits with my burlyness style of riding, weight deffinitly not an issue! Here is a little sample of some extra curricular stuff i've been up too!

Side Note: When is Geoff gonna be back up to snuff?
 

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skinny mike

Turbo Monkey
Jan 24, 2005
6,415
0
does the rotec really retail for $2550? seems kind of expensive compared to other dh frames which retail for a couple hundred less. probably going to have to find a used frame anyways.
 

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
Ohh the painfull pleasures of buying a new frame.. I don't envy them...

About hte bikes I like them all three. I haven't ridden any so for what ever it's worth..
They all seem to have low COG and low standover. I prefer the geo# of the 825 over the Rotec. Seems to be more playable with its shorter CS, and a tad more allround. The F1 has an extending WB don't it? Too much of a DH race plow if it extends.
 

Beast

Turbo Monkey
May 23, 2002
1,579
0
Where the riding is good
I've had an F1 since the first batch was released about 3.5 years ago. I do so little to keep my bike in great shape that many people find it hard to believe how well it rides after all that time. During those three + years, I have had to change the bearings in the linkage once, which was recent - that's it! I put more time on the bike and less time fixing it than just about anyone (the Buell's can attest to that). It's a little uncanny how hard I can ride without the need for any maitenance.

I have ridden this bike so hard, for so long compared to many dh'ers. For three years I've raced in every mountain states cup event, many norbas, and all of the colorado collegiate races. I've made several trips to moab during that time, and a trip to washington and whistler. Not to mention the countless fun rides, several of which have been in the winter.

I have to give the Brothers some major props for their work - because this bike is amazing. No matter what I toss it's direction, it keeps on tickin', and really well. Good work boys.

Some Canfield shots:



































And a short vid -
 
sorry homeboy, you got your facts wrong. the F1 has absolutely no chain growth (well, it's actually about 1mm) while cycling thru its travel. we can set up them up as a SS if we wanted to. the torque on the bolt is from the riders weight and was solved with different bolts since the problematic one was an incorrect spec...

my frame is 2 years old now and never had any issues with it yet. i send it big on a regular basis and have had some pretty bad mishaps also.
PS- that is my crash in the link in the post above and the bike is still rock solid over a year after that. (with plenty more of those in the meantime...)
Yeah, I forgot how that bike has minimal chain growth, but those bent bolt had to of had something to do with chain tension, no other way to explain it. That problem has been fixed though. As far as running single speed i'm pretty sure when lance and chris run them this way they still use a tensioning device/ old derailer.
 

flymybike

Monkey
Jan 7, 2004
260
0
Jackson Hole
The F1 does need a tensioner. It has a slight amount of negative chain growth. It worked flawless for me for 3 years with a 105 mech that was already so bad it wouldn't shift. I removed it when the outside pin popped out because the body had hit so many rocks it was ground through. Heres a pic of my SS.

The pulley post does get alot of stress when pedaling and compressing hard at the same time. The bolt was a 8mm standard grade bolt and was too soft. We replaced them with a 10.9 hardened bolt that works well. If the rider bends the bolt and doesn't replace it, it can damage the frame because the load transferes to the frame. So the design concept is the weakest link fails (a cheep 8mm bolt) to save the frame from damage. We gusseted the post for the 06 and 07 F1 frames.
 

GrapeApe79

Monkey
Sep 22, 2005
338
0
Issaquah, WA
Uh, the suspension and geometry helps the bike stick to ground and track, additional weight from the bike itself just makes more work for the shock and fork...
You are only slightly correct in your above referenced statement. The geometry has nothing to do with helping the bike stick to the ground. Does the geometry of a pizza box help to stick it to the ground? How about the geometry of a Christmas tree? The Earth's gravity is what keeps the bike on the ground. You probably already knew this. I know what you are trying to say. The suspension helps to absorb and damp the forces being applied to the bicycle as you ride or jump over various terrain. Additional weight creates more work the shock system must damp, but all things being equal, additional weight also creates more friction between the tires and the ground, as well as more momentum once you get moving. Suspension systems are extremely complicated from a design point of view and each one attempts to solve an even more complicated problem. At the end of the day, all that matters is that you have fun on your bike, and all I was trying to say is that the Rotec is a great bike and the weight is a non-issue, even for a 120# rider.
 

Bobodaclown

Monkey
Apr 16, 2005
270
0
London, England
Wow, a of of concern about the Rotec's weight. I never weighed Geoff's Rotec frame before building up the bike last winter. It did not seem to be an issue at the time or at all last season. That said, on the way back from some shuttle runs Yesterday I took the bike to the shop and weighed it on a registered scale and it came in at 43.2lbs as shown in picture. It was built without taking weight into consideration but durability and performance were.





So before saying 43.2 lbs is a pig consider how much the bike would weigh if We tried to build it light. As others have said the weight is carried low in the frame and IS NOT an issue.
.:banana:
I'm looking forward to gettting mine, just trying to decide on colour-I'm thinking white or green :) Geoff's ride looks goods.
I'm not to fussed about the weight of the frame, I only wanted to know what the weight was. I reckon my build should be around the 40 pound mark built with stuff thats gonna be durable but not over built.
 

Red Bull

Turbo Monkey
Oct 22, 2004
1,772
0
970
Wow, a of of concern about the Rotec's weight. I never weighed Geoff's Rotec frame before building up the bike last winter. It did not seem to be an issue at the time or at all last season. That said, on the way back from some shuttle runs Yesterday I took the bike to the shop and weighed it on a registered scale and it came in at 43.2lbs as shown in picture. It was built without taking weight into consideration but durability and performance were.
are you sure george? geoffs bike definitely felt a bunch heavier than mine and mine is 42# with nearly all lighter parts (including 2.35 nevegals and xc tubes)

not bashing, im just wondering. anyways, every single time i rode his bike it worked flawlessly...which is not something i could ever say about mine.