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which DH bike rails the best?

B

bryman1999

Chimp
Nov 20, 2005
47
0
BC
hey everyone i love ripping corners and basically carving when i come across some cool singlertrack on the moutanin so what are some of the best cornerning machines with the lowest CG out there?

for 4x i'd had to say the blur 4x or the turner rail, from what i've heard, never ridden either

for downhill i've heard lots of different things, but i loved the low CG my bb7? how about others? turner dhr? sunday? i have no idea haha

peace and thanks
 
The Mad Haderer

The Mad Haderer

Monkey
Feb 10, 2003
594
0
A, A
the bike that rails best is obviously the bike with rails, the 303..duh...haha

but in all seriousness it does have a very low CG and corners very very well.
 
B

bryman1999

Chimp
Nov 20, 2005
47
0
BC
ya dude the 303 seems like a rad sled, and the rail thing just blows my mind haha

what do you guys think about the ventana el cuervo?
 
Bicyclist

Bicyclist

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2004
10,152
2
SB
Sunday, Morewood, Demo, DHR, SX Trail, Bottlerocket, there are lots of good-cornering bikes with different feels and travel.
 
f0ggy

f0ggy

Monkey
Aug 6, 2006
242
0
Ca
like you said, blur 4x, my blur rails like no other, awesome bike, love it. I really want to try a sunday though, thoes seam like awesome bikes, but then I might want one...
 
mattmatt86

mattmatt86

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2005
5,347
10
Bleedmore, Murderland
Asking this question is like asking "what car corners the best"? Its so vague and there are so many variables at play that there could be 18070856893 answers.

But anyway, the answer obviously is: whatever bike Gracia is on.
 
Bicyclist

Bicyclist

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2004
10,152
2
SB
mattmatt86 said:
Asking this question is like asking "what car corners the best"? Its so vague and there are so many variables at play that there could be 18070856893 answers.

But anyway, the answer obviously is: whatever bike Sam Hill is on.
Click to expand...
Double-fixed.
 
The Mad Haderer

The Mad Haderer

Monkey
Feb 10, 2003
594
0
A, A
mattmatt86 said:
Asking this question is like asking "what car corners the best"? Its so vague and there are so many variables at play that there could be 18070856893 answers.

But anyway, the answer obviously is: whatever bike Gracia is on.
Click to expand...
thats alot easier than a bike question....the answer is the lotus elise...next?
 
LaharDesign

LaharDesign

Monkey
Jun 16, 2006
159
0
Everyone thats ever ridden one say the Lahar.
You just can't get adequate traction if your mainframe rebounds faster than your wheels. Consistant wheelbase under g-out and unequalled lateral stiffness help too.
 
dhkid

dhkid

Turbo Monkey
Mar 10, 2005
3,358
0
Malaysia
LaharDesign said:
You just can't get adequate traction if your mainframe rebounds faster than your wheels.
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could you explane that a bit more? what are you using as a point of reference? the idea of the rebound of the main frame vs rebound of the rear wheel doesn't make sence right now.
 
The Mad Haderer

The Mad Haderer

Monkey
Feb 10, 2003
594
0
A, A
I have a few really cool regulars at a few of the resturants I Valet at that TELL ME to take the car around the block.

some rich people are actually pretty cool.
 
sanjuro

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
The Mad Haderer said:
I have a few really cool regulars at a few of the resturants I Valet at that TELL ME to take the car around the block.

some rich people are actually pretty cool.
Click to expand...
I feel kinda of funny letting anyone drive my car. And if I think parking is bad, I bring a bike and park anywhere and just ride up.
 
hungryleprican

hungryleprican

Turbo Monkey
Jun 15, 2006
1,970
0
ndub
bryman1999 said:
hey everyone i love ripping corners and basically carving when i come across some cool singlertrack on the moutanin so what are some of the best cornerning machines with the lowest CG out there?

for 4x i'd had to say the blur 4x or the turner rail, from what i've heard, never ridden either

for downhill i've heard lots of different things, but i loved the low CG my bb7? how about others? turner dhr? sunday? i have no idea haha

peace and thanks
Click to expand...

your mom
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,088
6,024
borcester rhymes
any bike with a low pivot tends to corner better than a bike with a high pivot. This is based on nothing but what people say. My arrow ds3 cornered great. It sucked on everything else, but the bike cornered crazy-like. I think most people love turners for the same reason.

The facts behind it are that under load the rear wheel moves closer to you (shortening the chainstay) and when the bike is shorter, it moves better (easier to flick, etc.). Also, I believe that weight transfer has something to do with it. Under high-g loads, a lower pivot bike sinks into its travel more in a turn. A higher pivot bike doesn't react as much. Lower bikes corner better, just because the COG is lower.

I hope that's correct and that it answers some questions. I find that high-pivot bikes don't necessarily corner worse, they just feel different, and take a different riding style. Plus, the benefits of a high pivot bike far outweigh the relatively minor upgrade in cornering, IMO.
 
LaharDesign

LaharDesign

Monkey
Jun 16, 2006
159
0
dhkid said:
could you explane that a bit more? what are you using as a point of reference? the idea of the rebound of the main frame vs rebound of the rear wheel doesn't make sence right now.
Click to expand...
its about the conservation of momentum. As you roll off a bump into a hollow the centre of mass of the system will continue on its trajectory. If the wheel and other unsprung weight of a conv bike weighs around 10lb and the 1/2 of the mainframe and sprung mass close to it weighs around 5 lb, the mainframe can rebound at up to twice the speed its pushing the wheel down. The amount of mass that the rider can contribute to stabilising the mainframes sprung weight is of course variable however if you are standing with bent knees or pedalling this mass is not rigidly connected and has little effect at the high rebound speeds neccessary to keep the wheel evenly weighted over terrain and thus maximise traction.
I've seen no evidence that a shortening wheelbase helps a bike rail corners. A chassis becoming more twitchy the harder you corner or the bigger the bump its handling does not help hold a line or improve recovery from crossing the limit. I've had pivot heights from conv to 10" above the BB race tested by national champions and none have argued in favour of low pivots or against even the highest ones with respect to cornering (or anything else).
A rear that shortens under compression is shifting weight from your front wheel to your rear, making it easier for the front to break loose. This is because on a slope or in hard cornering a plumb line from the CoG will be near parallel to the front wheels travel. If the rear wheelpath isn't near parallel with the front the distance from rear tyre contact to the point on the ground the weight is acting thru will change, affecting balance and control.
Weight shift rearward as is produced by low pivot bikes is in my mind impossible to equate with good cornering character. Its highly arguable that forward weight shift relative to the tyre contacts is a positive.
I'd define "railing a corner" as holding to a choosen line despite whatever the bike has to roll over. The M9 is 2" longer than the m8. Comparitive testing has shown that it "rails corners tighter and at higher speeds than the m8". Both bikes are known for perfect balance in two wheel drifts on rough ground.
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,088
6,024
borcester rhymes
my impression of "railing corners" was smooth, tight, high-speed bermed turns than rough, flat, steep sections.

If you're talking the former, suspension performance is less important than wheelbase and center of gravity, IMO.

If you're talking the latter, I would imagine it has more to do with head angle and chainstay length than pivot placement.

I agree with you though, that in a rough section, at high speed and with limited bermage (is that a word?) a lenghtening CS due to a high pivot could keep your weight more centered and therefore corner better. I'm not advocating low pivots; I think they suck and offer no significant performance gains over a properly engineered high pivot. I do think that if you ride mostly smooth dirt with dual slalom style berms, you're better off with a short chainstayed low pivot.
 
T

thaflyinfatman

Turbo Monkey
Jul 20, 2002
1,577
0
Victoria
Sandwich said:
I agree with you though, that in a rough section, at high speed and with limited bermage (is that a word?) a lenghtening CS due to a high pivot could keep your weight more centered and therefore corner better.
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Having ridden a few high pivot bikes (incl the Lahar) I think they are simply amazing when you're cornering at high speeds and when the ground is rough, as you say. However I did find that they tend to be harder to smack into tight berms because they over-weight the front wheel (relatively speaking) and make it harder to really pump the rear wheel into the turn. This is of course, a short-term impression from the runs I've done on Lahars, Balfas etc (never owned one)... I would be interested to see whether adapting your riding style could get around this or maybe even find a way to use it to your advantage. At the least though, it's not intuitive.
 
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