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At least five dead in mall shooting in SLC

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
It's obviously a problem but, as westy pointed out, eliminating the problem is near impossible. It would be another War on Drugs.

IMO, our society has more pressing problems which effect a far broader percentage of society: obesity, lack of healthcare, education etc.

I'd have no issue eliminating handguns/military style weapons. Getting rid of hunting weapons is another matter though. While I haven't hunted/fired them in years, I own 6 rifles/shotguns and would be loathe to give up my right to own them. (no, i am not a NRA member/supporter)
Bloody hell, JFK must be turning in his grave, we do these things not because they are easy and all that.;)
Second point is well-made and I agree, start a thread about it.
Even here in Japan where the gun laws are as strict as anywhere you can have a hunting rifle so I can't see them being banned. Anyway I'm not talking about banning guns just changing the culture of the gun.
 

Kihaji

Norman Einstein
Jan 18, 2004
398
0
Bloody hell, JFK must be turning in his grave, we do these things not because they are easy and all that.;)
Second point is well-made and I agree, start a thread about it.
Even here in Japan where the gun laws are as strict as anywhere you can have a hunting rifle so I can't see them being banned. Anyway I'm not talking about banning guns just changing the culture of the gun.
Again, how do strict gun laws keep them out of the hands of CRIMINALS?

Treat the root cause, not the symptoms. Gun violence is the symptom, not the root cause.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
Treat the root cause, not the symptoms. Gun violence is the symptom, not the root cause.
American arrogance coupled with religious idiocy and a manifest destiny hangover? Short of putting everyone with an American passport on trains to the camps, I'm not sure how you're going to treat the root cause.
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,499
2,805
Short of putting everyone with an American passport on trains to the camps
Even your beloved welfare-mothers? They won't be forced to work at these camps will they? That would be unfair.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
wow, that was a day late and a dollar short.

Deleted for the foul of repetition.

One-love.
 

Kihaji

Norman Einstein
Jan 18, 2004
398
0
American arrogance coupled with religious idiocy and a manifest destiny hangover? Short of putting everyone with an American passport on trains to the camps, I'm not sure how you're going to treat the root cause.
Perhaps first by dispelling the myth that American Nationalism, belief in religion, or some vestigal manifest destiny notion is driving people to gun violence.

How about instead we focus on reversing the marginalization of the American worker, who has gone from a living person to a line item on an accounting sheet. Or how about the culture of entitlement that we as Americans have grown into. Or maybe, just maybe, we should tackle the culture of "not my fault", where everything is blamed on someone or something else for a persons actions.

How about we start there instead, what do you say?
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
How about we start there instead, what do you say?
How about we start by you debunking my theory before I do all the work and debunk yours? After all, I was first.

You can start by explaining how Canadians have as many guns as they do, and have many of the same cultural influences, and still have 1/5th of the firearm murders per capita that the US does.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir_percap-crime-murders-firearms-per-capita

(Besides which, your argument is self refuting: It's tough to blame the "not my fault culture" and then blame the "marginalization of the American worker" at the same time.)
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
I blame Michael Moore.

P.S. How many murders in Canada are black on black crimes?
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
You can start by explaining how Canadians have as many guns as they do, and have many of the same cultural influences, and still have 1/5th of the firearm murders per capita that the US does.
access to victims.
seriously. canada's too thinned out.
(Besides which, your argument is self refuting: It's tough to blame the "not my fault culture" and then blame the "marginalization of the American worker" at the same time.)
stop doing that; this has moved far beyond being sport.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
looks like 1999 was an even more fun year in SLC:

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_5216431

Police ID victims in Trolley shooting
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 02/13/2007 02:30:32 PM MST


Posted: 12:53 PM- Police have identified the victims shot at Trolley Square on Monday.
Killed were Jeffrey Walker, 52; Vanessa Quinn, 29; Teresa Ellis, 29; Brad Frantz, 24; and Kirsten Hinckley, 15.
Hospitalized were Allen Walker, 16, son of Jeffrey Walker; Carolyn Tuft, 44; Shawn Munns, 34; and Stacy Hansen, 53.
The killer, who was shot dead by police, was identified as Sulejmen Talovic, 18, of Salt Lake City.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
...how about banning teen drivers too? they kill more innocent people than guns do

Teen admits killing 3 with car
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 02/13/2007 01:14:24 AM MST


A Utah County boy, age 16, accused of killing three teenage friends when he crashed his speeding car last summer, admitted Monday in Provo's 4th District Juvenile Court his role in connection with three counts of second-degree felony manslaughter. The driver admitted causing the deaths of passengers Brady Conger, 17, of Springville; Katelyn Gabbitas, 17, of Springville; and Tasha Brammer, 18, of Mapleton. The driver returns to court on March 14, according to court officials. Judge Mary Noonan could impose punishments ranging from probation to confinement in a secure juvenile detention facility until he is 21. The crash occurred Aug. 2 at about 10 p.m., when the driver's 2004 Mustang skidded into a stopped Chevrolet Suburban in Hobble Creek Canyon. Prosecutor Kent Willis has said the Mustang was traveling down Canyon Road in excess of 90 mph when the boy hit the brakes and lost control. The Mustang was still going about 50 mph when the left rear of the car skidded into the left front area of the Suburban, according to Willis. The two occupants of the Suburban were not injured. Those who died were back-seat passengers who were not wearing seat belts. The driver and a 17-year-old front-seat passenger, who were wearing seat belts, suffered only minor injuries. The boy is alleged to have ''recklessly'' caused the fatalities. Drugs and alcohol were not factors in the crash, according to Willis.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,241
20,022
Sleazattle
If there is one thing Americans like more that irresponsible gun ownership it is irresponsible car ownership.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
assessor's site must be getting slashdotted; i've swapped tunnels & hopped onto the corporate network & now i can't get a clean reply from anywhere.

no way anyone sleeps in that house ever again.
 

BuddhaRoadkill

I suck at Tool
Feb 15, 2004
988
0
Chintimini Bog
You can start by explaining how Canadians have as many guns as they do, and have many of the same cultural influences, and still have 1/5th of the firearm murders per capita that the US does.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir_percap-crime-murders-firearms-per-capita
It's not about the guns. Canada has only 35% of the murders that the US has. In fact, the US killed as many people without guns as Canada did altogether. We just like killin' :thumb:

Guns are a non-issue people. Seriously. It's a socio-economic thing.
Who's doing all the shooting? Black dudes 18-24. Who are they shooting? Each other. Where are they getting the guns? Family, friends, or an illegal source. Why are they shooting? Now that's the question we need to be asking.

Leading causes of Death
Homicide age, gender, and race trends


Oh yeah, suicide makes up over 55% of gun fatalities.
 

VTApe

Monkey
Feb 5, 2005
213
20
Vermont
I think the "root cause" is a general lack of quality education, especially in inner-city schools. This inspires ignorance as to what is right and wrong, lowers self-asteem and without role models (good instructors), the kids have no one to look up to. And, When kids are constantly surrounded by older products of ****ty schools who find it easier to make a living dealing drugs than holding a full time job, they will naturally follow suit.

I'm sure I could find a better anaolgy, but it's the same reason why there are 2,3,4+ generation marines, a tradition so strong not even war will stop it.

As long as crappy policies like "no kid left behind" are still in place; shielding a growing problem of illiteracy and ignorance, the shooting will go on. I have a hard time imagining gun-control policies will do anything to stop people from killing others with guns, instead those who register and use their guns legally and responsibly will lose their hobbies and family traditions.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
I think the "root cause" is a general lack of quality education, especially in inner-city schools.

shielding a growing problem of illiteracy and ignorance, the shooting will go on. I have a hard time imagining gun-control policies will do anything to stop people from killing others with guns, instead those who register and use their guns legally and responsibly will lose their hobbies and family traditions.
dr. ted kazinsky aside, i'd like to add in this case, he was a bosnian refugee
Police Tuesday identified the gunman accused in Monday night's Trolley Square shooting as Sulejman Talovic, an 18-year-old Bosnian refugee who lived in Salt Lake City.
and i'm rather skeptical to think he came from his war-torn country a well balanced individual & was driven to mass killings due to being raised in some inner city in utah, where they don't tuck in their pressed white shirts & say things like "what the flip?"
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
23
SF, CA
...how about banning teen drivers too? they kill more innocent people than guns do
Absolutely (though I fail to see why they're mutually exclusive). Our licensing standards are far too lax.
 

Munster

Monkey
Sep 5, 2001
166
0
Eastern Canada
dr. ted kazinsky aside, i'd like to add in this case, he was a bosnian refugeeand i'm rather skeptical to think he came from his war-torn country a well balanced individual & was driven to mass killings due to being raised in some inner city in utah, where they don't tuck in their pressed white shirts & say things like "what the flip?"
I think Chris Rock said it best: "Whatever happened to 'crazy'?"
 

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,160
2
california
Address of the perp?

That's the closest Salt Lake has to a ghetto...

Really sucks. Four of the dead were found in bar none the coolest store this side of the Mississippi.

Utah's gun lobby...

Utah gun-rights advocates speculated that there were "numerous opportunities" for a concealed weapon carrier to "shoot this guy."
What fvcktards. I'm sure all the noble (bald and fat) concealed carriers dining with their twelve children at the Spaghetti Factory had the balls enough to poke their heads out of the front door...

An off-duty cop forced him into a corner and then he and 4 SLCPD brought him down. NUMEROUS OPPORTUNITIES!

Asshats need to not be afraid of their own shadow. Ban ammunition sale. Period.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Address of the perp?
looks like it was his mom's; he moved into an apt short time ago.
What fvcktards. I'm sure all the noble (bald and fat) concealed carriers dining with their twelve children at the Spaghetti Factory had the balls enough to poke their heads out of the front door...
i thought that's what the extra wives were for...human shields.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
Are you for real?
My thoughts exactly, this guy must be clinically insane. There's blame aplenty in that war and more than enough for the Bosnian Serbs to want to hang their heads in shame for the things that were done in their names. No choir boys in that conflict

BTW people the second link is extremely graphic and is obviously NSFW.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
BTW people the second link is extremely graphic and is obviously NSFW.
dude, i've been out-frothed!

more than likely, this punk was your typical disaffected can't blend in w/ the local culture type coupled with a healthy dose of extreme hardship during his formidable years, boy in a man's body, can't make decent money, nihilistic, etc...

in other words, another columbine mentality. anyone wanna come over & watch basketball diaries?
 

fluff

Monkey Turbo
Sep 8, 2001
5,673
2
Feeling the lag
more than likely, this punk was your typical disaffected can't blend in w/ the local culture type coupled with a healthy dose of extreme hardship during his formidable years, boy in a man's body, can't make decent money, nihilistic, etc...

in other words, another columbine mentality. anyone wanna come over & watch basketball diaries?
Whoa - you can tell all that form just one post? Mad skillz...