Pit Bulls

strangeland2 said:

I also hate pitbulls. I think the only ignorance is people trying to defend the breed claiming a few bad apples. The breed is definitely a little off and something needs to be done to breed a better temperment in them. As pointed out there are various pit breeds that arent actually pitbulls and look very similiar to pitbulls so there is no reason people cant get a different pit breed.

I ll finish with Im really not for any government regulation so I dont think the breed should be legally outlawed. I would prefer people to take the intiative and do what is right. However if it came to government outlawing I sure wouldnt miss the dogs.

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Ok Mr. Libertarian I was done with this topic, but you brought me back with your witty banter.

What I meant to say was there are almost 20 breeds of dogs that fall under the "pitbull bans" (maybe someone else knows the actual text of a pitbull ban, dont know if there illegal where you are). Its kinda like the assault weapon ban (you know sort of arbitrary law not really getting at the heart of the problem by making broad generalizations), but I don't want to start another giant debate. That being said if we want to talk about poor breeding lets look at cocker spaniels or labs or any other puppy mill dog.

Its the same with any prejudice guys in any group of things there are good ones and bad ones.

I bet the people doing the Pitbull bashing have never even met a pitbull.

ridetoofast said:

as i suspected you are a typical arm chair quarterback that has never personally interacted with a properly raised dog...

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My non pitbull dog was great.

Pitbulls suck. Gas 'em all.

manimal said:

i got a bulletin recently about a new breed of dog that is the new target for dog fighters...i can't remember the name of it off the top of my head by it looks like a cross between a pit and a mastif..friggin huge and tough looking. get rid of pits and they'll just fight something else.

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South African Boerboel by chance?



6 month old female

MMike said:

My non pitbull dog was great.

Pitbulls suck. Gas 'em all.

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would you please test drive the chamber first.
christ i hope you never contaminate the gene pool you tool.

ridetoofast said:

would you please test drive the chamber first.
christ i hope you never contaminate the gene pool you tool.

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I've called a tool twice....damn.

I'm still right, and you're even more wrong.

There was no witty banter Im not debating it. Just stated my opinion and dont care who agrees with it.

erastusboy said:

Ok Mr. Libertarian I was done with this topic, but you brought me back with your witty banter.

What I meant to say was there are almost 20 breeds of dogs that fall under the "pitbull bans" (maybe someone else knows the actual text of a pitbull ban, dont know if there illegal where you are). Its kinda like the assault weapon ban (you know sort of arbitrary law not really getting at the heart of the problem by making broad generalizations), but I don't want to start another giant debate. That being said if we want to talk about poor breeding lets look at cocker spaniels or labs or any other puppy mill dog.

Its the same with any prejudice guys in any group of things there are good ones and bad ones.

I bet the people doing the Pitbull bashing have never even met a pitbull.

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See when you say witty banter it makes everything in the post seem that much smarter, cause how smart does witty banter sound.

witty banter

Total Heckler said:

My girlfriend has a pit and she is awesome. No way am I going to support this ridiculous PETA adventure.

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so if i were to get a girlfriend I should make sure she has a pitbull so that she can be awesome?

and I've got two halfbreed pitbulls I picked up at the pound. if you're a feral pig they will ****ing kill you. otherwise they'll just get mud on your shirt and slobber on you. JBP can attest to their fearsome slobbering.

just for the sake of burning bandwidth while I download something in another window....

The "Pitbull" is the common name for the American Staffordshire Terrier. Originally bred as a pit fighting dog. Dogs in this breed were selected for further breeding based upon a few key traits:
1: obedience to their owner/handler
2: gameness (the willingness to keep fighting despite wounds, pain, etc)
3: strength
Like almost any dog the pitbull can be trained to be aggressive towards humans, but early breeders were not selecting for this trait. Early breeders (breed seems to have been developed in the late 19th or early 20th century) wanted a dog that would obey commands and that would not attack the humans who were typically in the pit with the fighting dogs during the fight. This is not to say that some modern breeders of the pitbull are not selecting for human aggressive dogs.

Some would argue that a "Final Solution" for this breed is the only solution. Sadly, nature abhors a vacuum and a new dog/dragon/ogre/etc will arise to eat babies, children and other helpless forest critters.

Edit, this is kevin posting under yeti's account...

Hasnt anyone noticed that all the people who are against pitbulls are the people that have only heard about m in the news...
From my personal experiance i can say pitbulls are nice dogs and i think they are better then most other dogs because of theyre playfull and loving character and theyre devotion to its owners, i wonder how many people that actually bash on them actually know one that has normal owners and not the stereo type drugdealer ones that are giving the dog a bad name...

Sure people get bitten by pitbulls with a bad background and those dogs should be eliminated, but people get bitten by lots of dog breeds but that doesnt make the news cause its not a pitbull.

If you really think about it banning pitbulls is really really retarted...

pigboy said:

The "Pitbull" is the common name for the American Staffordshire Terrier.

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Wrong.
The pitbull is the dog that sprung from the bull and terrier breeds and were used for fighting.
The American Staffordshie terrier is the show version of the pitbull which is basically the same dog but through different breeding programs and breeding or other characteristics (no breeding on gameness but cosmethic appearance) it has allmost become a different breed by itself.
Theres really a big difference between the two dogs and though can register a american stafford as a pitbull you can not register a pitbull as an american staffordshire terrier...

DEATH to SPUDZ MACKENZIE!!!

Ozomatli (the pit) and Kloe (the American bulldog)

...and no, I didn't do that to the poor bastard's ears.

manimal said:

i got a bulletin recently about a new breed of dog that is the new target for dog fighters...i can't remember the name of it off the top of my head by it looks like a cross between a pit and a mastif..friggin huge and tough looking. get rid of pits and they'll just fight something else.

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Perhaps a Presa or Cane Corso?






All of you who think bit bulls should be banned.......let's play a little game. Pick the "pitbull" on the first try

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/image/findpit/b3.jpg

I have been accosted by two different adults about my dog being a pitbull and that I am a "menace to society" for having a "deadly baby killer"

My dog is a English Bulldog hardly a killer unless he farts in your face.

I have no problem with dogs, only their owners.

The dog manimal is referring to is a "Dogue de Bordeaux"...there have been several cases recently in NYC regarding dog fighting organizations using these dogs...even more gentle than a 'pitbull' (whatever that is)....




As for my thoughts on the topic, this article (which I've posted here before) pretty much sums up everything for me:

4 Legged Love - Against Ontario's Proposed Pit Bull Ban
http://www.4leggedlove.com/againstontariopitbullban.htm

stevew said:

I have no problem with dogs, only their owners.

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+1

Manimal's photographs are of a bull mastiff, I think.

Batman said:

The dog manimal is referring to is a "Dogue de Bordeaux"...there have been several cases recently in NYC regarding dog fighting organizations using these dogs...even more gentle than a 'pitbull' (whatever that is)....

As for my thoughts on the topic, this article (which I've posted here before) pretty much sums up everything for me:

4 Legged Love - Against Ontario's Proposed Pit Bull Ban
http://www.4leggedlove.com/againstontariopitbullban.htm

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stevew said:

I have no problem with dogs, only their owners.

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I agree, except this is a problem...

jimmydean said:

But the main issue is that there are LONG blood lines that have no hope of ever recovering.

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Although I likes me pitbulls I have no problem with banning the "breeding" of such animals. Now making people get rid of their perfectly well behaved animals because of their breed is horrific.

Actually we are all missing the point: it's the people that need to be discouraged from breeding.

johnbryanpeters said:

Actually we are all missing the point: it's the people that need to be discouraged from breeding.

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winner!

johnbryanpeters said:

Actually we are all missing the point: it's the people that need to be discouraged from breeding.

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Yep.

I was walking by the Hard Rock Casino in Vegas a couple months ago. There was a guy walking through the parking lot "walking" a pitbull type dog on a leash or at least a thick rop tied around the dogs neck. This dog was intact for breeding or manliness I'm sure.

And this dog was playing a dominence game. Turned on the owner grabbed the leash and started pulling so hard that the owner could actually lift the dog off the ground. All the while the owner is yelling "KILL MOTHER F_____, KILL"

That's the kind of people that need to be shot.

macko said:

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Obviously exhausted from a long day of shredding babies.

Dartman said:

Obviously exhausted from a long day of shredding babies.

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Mine pup is pretty smart and has learned to lure babies in close with toys. I couldn't get any pictures after this as the blood splatter gooped up my camera lens.

I grew up around really good dogs, mostly shepherds. I had a pit mix for a few years (he was killed by a speeding teenager). Best frigging dog I've ever come across by far. Totally trustworthy around the baby and other pets, wanted nothing else but to basically be as close to us as possible. Smart as hell; downright intuitive even - there were many occassions when we'd marvel at the way he just 'got it' and behaved perfectly in all sorts of circumstances with little or no direction. Cried like a baby when he got hit and killed. I have no problem with a breed ban on them though - out of all the dogs I've come across, the ones I've gotten the most bad vibes from were by far 'pits', w/ Rotties second. Sure, dalmations (for example) may bite more often, but I'm pretty sure most people can kick a dalmation's ass if it came down to it.

The whole comparison to guns is silly. A dog can decide and act on it's own, usually totally against it's owner's wishes in the case of attacks. A gun can't do anything by itself. Unless of course someone knows of an example of a gun climbing out of it's cabinet, busting thru the screen door, jumping the fence and making it's way to a neighbors house where it shoots someone of it's own accord.

Where is that "dog rapes baby" news article when you need it?

<edit> Found it. Pit Bull rapes baby

jimmydean said:

Where is that "dog rapes baby" news article when you need it?

<edit> Found it. Pit Bull rapes baby

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I found this video for you:
Dog rapes self :biggrin:

I have never owned a pit bull nor can I say I know exactly what one is. So I feel I can't condemn them or say they should be banned or whatever. I am sure many other breeds maul babies but you don't hear about that. Most of the dogs described as pit bulls to me have been good dogs. They seem trustworthy and love to play. I like that in a dog. They seem to thrive on you being in charge. If you don't have control of your animal you will have problems with any breed IMO. Most folks have no clue on how to train their animals or have weird ideas of what obedience is. That is never the animals fault....

dogwonder said:

I kicked off this thread but have been keeping my mouth shut since I'm admittedly biased.

But to stir the pot a little more, he's a video clip I kind of like. It is a little gruesome in parts and definitely biased towards the pit. But it shows that other breeds can and do viciously attack people as well without nearly the same amount of press.

http://media.putfile.com/The-TRUTH-About-Pit-Bulls

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Biased? You think?

"38000" "kids" die in the USA yearly from gunshots? Even if you count anyone under the age of 19 a 'kid', that's still jacked up by 10X at least. Looks like 'the truth' and 'the facts' aren't always one and the same. Kinda like someone can always come up with an anecdote that 'disproves' an obvious trend.

jdcamb said:

If you don't have control of your animal you will have problems with any breed IMO. Most folks have no clue on how to train their animals or have weird ideas of what obedience is. That is never the animals fault....

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This is very true, but the problem with "pit bull" type dogs are the bloodlines. Many breeds are screwed up from over production, but the so called bad traits in those other dogs aren't things like its ability to eat you. Pits turn on owners all the time, like Dobies used to be known for.

I met a cop that had the last Rottie K9 officer in Portland a while back. The dog was retired after the city was sued over excessive force when the dog dislocated a perps shoulder trying to pull him out from under a car. Rotties just have a lot of power and even a well trained dog sometimes gets a little over excited. But a Rottie is far less likely to turn.

The jaw is a deal breaker for me. I know how to get a Rottie off me without the use of a pry bar, but Pits have been bred to hold on no matter what. It's an instinct that has been bred into the dog.

jimmydean said:

This is very true, but the problem with "pit bull" type dogs are the bloodlines. Many breeds are screwed up from over production, but the so called bad traits in those other dogs aren't things like its ability to eat you.

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Sorry but that's simply not true. If you read the article I posted it goes over this...
'Pit bulls' and similar dogs have never been bred to be aggressive towards humans...that would be completely counter-productive to the purpose of the breed. The kind of traits that they are bred for encourage obedience towards humans and responding to their owner the first time. Once again, these dogs are not somehow genetically predisposed to be aggressive to humans, it's the exact opposite.

Please read the article I posted a little ways back, it has lots of info and clears up a lot of misunderstandings about the breeds.

Batman said:

Sorry but that's simply not true. If you read the article I posted it goes over this...
'Pit bulls' and similar dogs have never been bred to be aggressive towards humans...that would be completely counter-productive to the purpose of the breed. The kind of traits that they are bred for encourage obedience towards humans and responding to their owner the first time. Once again, these dogs are not somehow genetically predisposed to be aggressive to humans, it's the exact opposite.

Please read the article I posted a little ways back, it has lots of info and clears up a lot of misunderstandings about the breeds.

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I am going from experience, not from an article. I grew up in the "not so good" side of town where a lot of people bred pit bulls for the sole purpose of being aggressive toward humans.

So those dogs and the offspring of those dogs were just that, genetically predisposed to be aggressive toward humans. It is what they are for in my 'hood, nothing more.

Fair enough, but somehow I doubt the selected dogs trained to be aggressive to humans have a major impact on the genetics of millions of other dogs...any dog can be trained to attack a human, 'pitbulls' just happen to be very trainable and loyal. It would take many generations of selecting and breeding to actually ingrain this into the dogs instincts.
The solution to this is not to ban the breed like they have in my province. Breed bans do very little to actually solve a real problem (bad owners).

Oh, and I speak from much experience with many different breeds, not just an article.

Batman said:

Breed bans do very little to actually solve a real problem (bad owners).

Oh, and I speak from much experience with many different breeds, not just an article.

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I agree 100%, but I am guilty of stereotyping dogs. I don't think twice about approaching a Rottie if I see one that doesn't look pissed. But I don't trust Pits or others like them at all, no matter who tells me different based on nothing more than past experience.

My ex-wife has a pit, I hate them both. She is the worst kind of dog owner because she doesn't take the time to train the dog. The only reason our Rottie listened to her was because I took the time up front.

Does anyone that's against banning breeds feel it's wrong that you can have a pet boa constrictor, but not a cobra?

SlapheadMofo said:

Does anyone that's against banning breeds feel it's wrong that you can have a pet boa constrictor, but not a cobra?

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I think you can have a cobra if you have the venom glands removed. I know it's true for rattle snakes (or at least it was when my brother had one).

Snakes are a lot harder to teach, also.

SlapheadMofo said:

Does anyone that's against banning breeds feel it's wrong that you can have a pet boa constrictor, but not a cobra?

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Really? That's the best comparison you could come up with? You don't want me to actually explain to you the rediculous differences in the two do you?

I'd expect a previous pit owner like yourself would understand how much a dog's behaviour is influenced by its owner...

I have a 70LB boxer, who is the kindest dog in the world. Super great around kids and other animals. Yet it is still hear people call him a Pit Bull and cross the street.

I know it is cliche, but there are no bad dogs just bad owners.

I was talking to my wife about this on the way home. She brought up an interesting point about Pit owners:

The vast majority that both she and I know or have seen, are jackasses.

I doubt there are any official studies done on this, but it would be my guess based on our conversation that the majority of people who purchase a Pit have bad intentions for the dog.

Unlike people who purchase something like a Lab. Does anyone know someone who purchased a Lab with the thought of making it into a killer? I know people purchase other dogs like Rotties and whatnot, but Pits tend to be a lot more "affordable".

Also, if you look at the Oregon Humane Society, Pits outnumber any other breed by at least 3 to 1. Which also leads me to believe that the previous owners were irresponsible or just don't care.